Rising pH in res used for handwatering?

[Cwmoore577]

I would drop the organics if you want a pH stable solution. You could try mixing potassium silicate before adding nutrients to buffer the water and stabilize the solution. The nutrient solution will change pH value in the containers either way just as in the reservoir.

Or just don't bother to pH your nutrient solution and add some myko product (Great white for example) to your containers. You don't really need to pH organic nutrients with living cultures.

Wouldn’t that be a horrible idea in a coco grow? No soil to buffer.

 

[rkymtnman]

The desirable bacteria that breaks down organics are aerobic. So if anything bubbling will aid in thier use. People who make teas bubble them for this specific reason the high amount bacteria can deplete it of oxygen very quickly if left stagnant killing off your bacterial culture.

that makes sense. maybe my brain cell isn't working but i thought GH floranova recommends not to aerate b/c of the organic additives in it?

 

[Renfro]

The desirable bacteria that breaks down organics are aerobic. So if anything bubbling will aid in thier use. People who make teas bubble them for this specific reason the high amount bacteria can deplete it of oxygen very quickly if left stagnant killing off your bacterial culture.

Another factor with beneficial bacteria is they excrete organic acids dropping the pH if you let it brew awhile. For example in one of my 30 gallon drums, when it's empty I start it refilling off the RO filter and I add some sugar and tribus. There is a couple large air stones going really hard in there too. When it's full I add the nutrients and let it stew. It brews for 24 hours, multiplying the heck out of the bacteria and just a little pH drop, maybe 0.2 but if it brews for 48 hours, really multiplying the bacteria hard core then it drops pretty good, like from 6.5 to 5.2. Now if I let the same mix bubble but without the sugar or tribus the pH stays stable for 48 hours despite the air stone. So the organics are dropping the pH. I have to let a drum without the organics bubble for like 5 + days to get a pH drop from carbonic acid.

So it could be possible for @Cwmoore577 to use this organic pH drop to combat the pH rise however it would still be necessary to pH the mix as it's pulled for use, maybe just not as much pH adjustment.

A downside to the multiplying the bacteria in the drum is all the gunk buildup, but I look at it as healthy gunk and it's not bothering anything. If it was to start smelling then I would do something different lol. I just clean the drum after harvest.

I multiply the fuck out of the tribus. 5 mL lasts me a week. I brew it in a 5 gallon bucket and it gets thick like the stuff you buy. Very strong concentration. When I put it in the drum I just scoop about a quart and dump it in the 30 gallon drum, thats a LOT more than the 1mL per gallon rate that I would use if running it straight out of the bottle lol. Then it brews and multiplies more in the barrel. Plants love it. Pretty hard to over do it. I could brew the 5 mL longer but I think that the chances of it getting wack are higher the longer it goes. I just wash the bucket and air stone and start another 2 gallons brewing with 5 mL of tribus. Sometimes I add a little gnatrol to it too as a preventative.

 

[Renfro]

You could try mixing potassium silicate before adding nutrients to buffer the water and stabilize the solution.

I believe that would just raise his pH more.

 

[rkymtnman]

There is a couple large air stones going really hard in there too.

would a waterfall accomplish the same thing as airstones in what you were describing?

 

[Renfro]

would a waterfall accomplish the same thing as airstones in what you were describing?

I am not 100% sure. would the pump constantly recycling the nutes grind up the bacteria leaving you with mostly dead mush? or is there enough tolerance in the pump innards to avoid this? I tried using the pump in my 30 gallon drum and the bacteria didn't seem to do well so I just went back to the stone and didn't really do much research with the pump.

 

[Renfro]

FWIW my pump didn't have a filter.

 

[Aqua Man]

Another factor with beneficial bacteria is they excrete organic acids dropping the pH if you let it brew awhile. For example in one of my 30 gallon drums, when it's empty I start it refilling off the RO filter and I add some sugar and tribus. There is a couple large air stones going really hard in there too. When it's full I add the nutrients and let it stew. It brews for 24 hours, multiplying the heck out of the bacteria and just a little pH drop, maybe 0.2 but if it brews for 48 hours, really multiplying the bacteria hard core then it drops pretty good, like from 6.5 to 5.2. Now if I let the same mix bubble but without the sugar or tribus the pH stays stable for 48 hours despite the air stone. So the organics are dropping the pH. I have to let a drum without the organics bubble for like 5 + days to get a pH drop from carbonic acid.

So it could be possible for @Cwmoore577 to use this organic pH drop to combat the pH rise however it would still be necessary to pH the mix as it's pulled for use, maybe just not as much pH adjustment.

A downside to the multiplying the bacteria in the drum is all the gunk buildup, but I look at it as healthy gunk and it's not bothering anything. If it was to start smelling then I would do something different lol. I just clean the drum after harvest.

I multiply the fuck out of the tribus. 5 mL lasts me a week. I brew it in a 5 gallon bucket and it gets thick like the stuff you buy. Very strong concentration. When I put it in the drum I just scoop about a quart and dump it in the 30 gallon drum, thats a LOT more than the 1mL per gallon rate that I would use if running it straight out of the bottle lol. Then it brews and multiplies more in the barrel. Plants love it. Pretty hard to over do it. I could brew the 5 mL longer but I think that the chances of it getting wack are higher the longer it goes. I just wash the bucket and air stone and start another 2 gallons brewing with 5 mL of tribus. Sometimes I add a little gnatrol to it too as a preventative.

+1

 

[Aqua Man]

I believe that would just raise his pH more.

Well it would but wouldn't in a sense. The more buffering capacity the more acid needed to lower the ph. But in the end a more stable ph. The problem is you don't want to be adding to much acid and it should be very diluted when adding to a bacteria culture or live system.

 

[Aqua Man]

Honestly I used to use peat moss in pantyhose to lower the ph of my discus tanks... All natural and works well. Takes a while to adjust after adding but about as stable and safe as it gets.

 

[Renfro]

But in the end a more stable ph.

and more garbage PPM.

 

[Aqua Man]

and more garbage PPM.

? It takes very little to lower ph. 85% phosphoric acid is pretty stable and very minimal ppm.

Acid used also make a big difference in stability. If using citric acid you may aswell use nothing.

 

[Wastei]

I believe that would just raise his pH more.

Yes but it takes small amount of acid to regulate it. I pH adjust once every 10-14 days at res change and then forget about it. I don't want to pH adjust throughout the week.

and more garbage PPM.

Look into Silicon's high cation exchange capability, smartass! I could list more positive aspects about Silicates but see little to no reason to.

 

[Wastei]

Wouldn’t that be a horrible idea in a coco grow? No soil to buffer.

Not with organics. As I stated before you should use myko inoculants with organics. Mycorrhizal fungi inoculate coco coir just as well as peat moss for example. I would personally never use organic nutrients in containers indoors, just as an additive.

Or just don't bother to pH your nutrient solution and add some myko product (Great white for example) to your containers.

 

[Renfro]

Yes but it takes small amount of acid to regulate it. I pH adjust once every 10-14 days at res change and then forget about it. I don't want to pH adjust throughout the week.



Look into Silicon's high cation exchange capability, smartass! I could list more positive aspects about Silicates but see little to no reason to.

I am familiar lol. i just dont see adding something just to cancel it with acid and leave more garbage ppm in the solution.

 

[Aqua Man]

I am familiar lol. i just dont see adding something just to cancel it with acid and leave more garbage ppm in the solution.

The only reason is stability. The more buffering the more acid the more stable the ph. But I agree there is a point where it becomes detrimental. Personally in my RDWC res I like a ph swing if about 0.2-0.3 in 24hrs. Can use silica, potassium bicarbonate, hell even baking soda at low levels to achieve this. I would say silica is most beneficial. This is being shown in studies more and more. Silica is a fair bit more important than most think

 

[Wastei]

I am familiar lol. i just dont see adding something just to cancel it with acid and leave more garbage ppm in the solution.

Define "garbage ppm". I think it's just your personal opinion. I would never grow without potassium silicate in hydroponics. You seriously mean that rock stable pH, thicker cell walls and resistance to pm and insects is a bad thing? lol

I read 35ppm on the TDS meter after adding potassium silicate and phosphoric acid to regulate pH to 5.7. That's not much "garbage" if that's your argument.

 

[Renfro]

Define "garbage ppm". I think it's just your personal opinion. I would never grow without potassium silicate in hydroponics. You seriously mean that rock stable pH, thicker cell walls and resistance to pm and insects is a bad thing? lol

Like when you add pH up and calcium drops out of your solution. When acids and bases react you are left with something useless to the plant.

I am not saying don't use silica! I am saying it's not something to add so you can react it with an acid.

 

[Renfro]

Like he has high pH and you want him to add something that raises the pH more and cancel that with more acid than he would have needed in the first place?

 

[Renfro]

If using citric acid you may aswell use nothing.

So very true. lol all the tree hugger nonsense that you see people doing just make me sad. Like when ppl post a picture of a starving plant bragging about how they feed -200 PPM and they wanna know why the plant has every deficiency known to man, beast, plant and god! lol