Do I need to defoliate more?

My Name is Mike

My Name is Mike

Well-Known Member
Defoliation whether right or wrong is up to the grower. I manage a small cab where fan leaves easily takeover space. I only defoliate what's necessary to maintain consistent airflow through plant and allow lower bud sites to receive light.

I've done grows without touching the plants, some heavy defo and most recent grows as necessary. I've gotten the biggest top bud sizes from not touching plant, decently sized bud but lower yield from heavy defo and consistent nice sized buds, plus many lower popcorn good yield from as necessary defo. This is only my experience growing same strain. I'm not making any claims here.

My personal preference since 70% harvest won't be smoked, I prefer defo as necessary only.

OP asked his question as if he's trying to make his plant aestheticly pretty. I think this derives from boredom or the feeling like you have to be doing something to your plant everyday. To each their own with degrees, no degrees, experience or no experience. I'm not knocking OP but do as you wish.
 
Tetrahedral

Tetrahedral

Well-Known Member
SSHZ said:
And that's from a who has been on the site 1 month.......... I will add this: I know numerous people who manage large indoor grow operations in Colorado- and every single one of them defoliate their rooms (actually, they have workers do it). Outdoors it's not necessary, as the sun is strong enough and moves across the sky and hits the plants at various angles. But indoors, done correctly, it will increase the your yield. People that say it won't, either aren't doing it correctly or their strain doesn't put off enough leaves to warrant doing it.
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And you have some here for a few years making massive mistakes in drying and growing, must mean that it dosent matter how long your here.

They increase their yeild over not defoliating big plants but set up better they would increase yeilds with no defoliation. Large grows get less attention it's less labour intensive to do that with 100 big plants than train 400 small ones.

People don't defoliate in the sun because plants don't get bigger than the light and don't need stripping back.

Why is that a problem to accept, I've seen some with small grows pump out more yeild per watt than larger grows just because they get enough light and not a load of unlit popcorn like the larger ones.

Defoliating was never popular, until a load of gimmicks and gimmick growers took over. Another craze in a long line where at the end it was a stupid idea.

Did you read the first post where gimmick growers have convinced this guy his unfilled tents and space where a lot of light is already passing past leaves to the floor needs defoliating? Even flushing still seems popular in this shit storm, it's the title of every other thread and that's ridiculous.
 
M

mark's grow

Member
Tetrahedral said:
Another crazy idea from people who learnt to grow on cannabis forum's.
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Sounds like a crazy grower removed 90% of the leaves on his plants and has said this is a bad idea ever since, real shame you don't know the real advantage of pruning plants from apple trees to bonsia tree's, it's good fun and gets great results if you know what your talking a about.
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
Tetrahedral said:
If you really wanted to learn you would complete basic college sciences and maths then enrol in either a farming college or hi-tech agriculture and lab study if you want a deeper understanding.

Most who do that won't be needing these type of site and are already proficient enough,. There's bigger and better paid opportunity out there than this, some cannabis companies may even have employed some to do the more complex work a grower could not do without help.

A good grounding in lots of species and ways of growing is another way, been gardening long? You probably can appreciate the simple side and do well with cannabis indoors.

Without this you end up here chucking a $1000 at the latest led because other lights only fry plants, you add strong acids and alkalis to soil which dosent want or need it and creates big imbalance, you grow a plant then strip 70percent of leaves of it in the belief less is more and then stick your damp bud in a jar with drying aids then claim the wrong humidity caused the cure to stop and it all turn to low grade bush weed.

I'm not saying some won't avoid that or eventually learn it's just I don't need to hear their opinions until they hit a certain level of competence.

I don't defoliate because I produce more without, by the time my plants start flowering they are the size and shape I want not overgrown by 70percent and needing stopping back, if I want to add a few weeks to veg and get less yeild and harvest I can defoliate which I know all about. If you have enough light in the field you never cut back, only crop this benefits are ones where less energy into fruiting and flowering makes a superior product at the expense of less yeild.

Some answers seem too simple but here it's an endless debate, I feel sorry for soil growers being tricked into buying the whole pH kit when they didn't ever need it, weed sites are like this other places are not and leave you with a proper education you can transfer to most other types of growing.
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So your telling OP to go to college and get a degree to grow his 4 plants in a 6x6 tent? My education started with 100 seeds from Mexico and watching my parents grow vegetables......it seems to have worked out ok for me lol
 
D

DaFreak

Well-Known Member
1) leafs provide energy to make b for the plants
2) inverse law of light means that by removing a leaf so that light can hit a site below means weaker light is being used.
3) plants use the total of light received.
 
M

mark's grow

Member
You can top a plant 20 times and have 40 tops on a plant and use 100% of the light, you will end up with a total mess, even with a scrog, covered in 3g buds, seen this so many times.

In nature your are not meant to top a plants, you let them grow like a Christmas tree's

The plant grows and the weight of the branches fans out, so you get the perfect space between each branch for light and airflow

When you top a plant, you end up with 2 shoots close together

Each shoot has it's own fan leaf, larger the leaf, the larger the shoot grows and more water food
it pulls from the roots.

That's why some shoots grow quicker than others.

You cut or remove selected leaves to slow the growth of selected shoots, to keep the canopy level.

Often thin out the canopy and lollipop the canopy to increase airflow and this will reduce the humidity, reduces the chances of bugs and bud rot

Alway want a good 4- 6" space between each main shoot to give you a good size cola.

So the light can get down deep in the canopy.
 
D

DaFreak

Well-Known Member
Agreed, any removing of material should be done before the flip. Once you are in flowering by removing fans all you are doing is removing a source of energy and food for the plants. There is a whole lot of science behind saying don't get rid of your leafs and just some internet growers who don't do controlled studies behind chopping them off.
 
M

mark's grow

Member
DaFreak said:
Agreed, any removing of material should be done before the flip. Once you are in flowering by removing fans all you are doing is removing a source of energy and food for the plants. There is a whole lot of science behind saying don't get rid of your leafs and just some internet growers who don't do controlled studies behind chopping them off.
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When I turn my plants over to flower, the plants can grow more than double the size.

Without some training you can end up with diffent size plants and this is not good, as it may be needed in week 2, to slow the growth down on some plants or even lst the plants where possible.

In week 3 you may look at the lower canopy and see there no space between the soil and canopy.

Say the plants are 4ft high, lollipoping the bottom of the plant, means you can check for bugs and water more easily and get some extra air flow in the lower canopy.
 
Boatguy

Boatguy

Well-Known Member
Tetrahedral said:
Why scrog when you can do better sog or topping, same as why defoliate if you can get more not and by growing more smaller plants.
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Plant count limits prevent most from running a real sog. No way just topping a plant would produce more than a scrog in the same tent.... Maybe with a majorly extended veg but that extra time could be spent growing new plants.
 
D

DaFreak

Well-Known Member
mark's grow said:
When I turn my plants over to flower, the plants can grow more than double the size.

Without some training you can end up with diffent size plants and this is not good, as it may be needed in week 2, to slow the growth down on some plants or even lst the plants where possible.

In week 3 you may look at the lower canopy and see there no space between the soil and canopy.

Say the plants are 4ft high, lollipoping the bottom of the plant, means you can check for bugs and water more easily and get some extra air flow in the lower canopy.
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training yes, defoliation no.
 
M

mark's grow

Member
Boatguy said:
Plant count limits prevent most from running a real sog. No way just topping a plant would produce more than a scrog in the same tent.... Maybe with a majorly extended veg but that extra time could be spent growing new plants.
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I have done a few times and it works great

1m x 1m room with 4 plant, topped 4 times would give you 32 tops, flowered and drop the net over the plants about 2 week in.

The net hold the shoots in place and let them carry on growing, 32 x 6" Cola's come havest.

Its quick and you can do most the training in a small veg room.
 
Boatguy

Boatguy

Well-Known Member
mark's grow said:
I have done a few times and it works great

1m x 1m room with 4 plant, topped 4 times would give you 32 tops, flowered and drop the net over the plants about 2 week in.

The net hold the shoots in place and let them carry on growing, 32 x 6" Cola's come havest.

Its quick and you can do most the training in a small veg room.
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My only scrog was 2 plants topped once. Around twice that many tops, and finished out at 200g's dry. That is in a 2x2.5' tent, with 150w led, so alittle better than a gpw and around 40g per square foot.
 
M

mark's grow

Member
Boatguy said:
My only scrog was 2 plants topped once. Around twice that many tops, and finished out at 200g's dry. That is in a 2x2.5' tent, with 150w led, so alittle better than a gpw and around 40g per square foot.
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That's great you have 64 x 3g fluffy buds

Not for me, I space the shoots out and I can get 32 x 6" x 16g cola's
Quality is all better than quantity
 
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