Phosphorus issues

[Ayokiwi717]

I do see that this is spreading more to the sugar leaves as well slowly killing them off. It is progressing. It was fine the first week after the flush, atleast it seemed ok. One problem with the flush is it took me an hour to do. I dont have the ability to go outside and flush it with a hose. I got to get a gallon jug water it, have my pot on a saucer and water until it feels up to a certain amount, drain that run off, and repeat. I probably need a spray feeding bottle to speed up the process. I cant imagine 8 gallons of water through a 2.5 gallon pot is not an adequate flush. I dont think flushing for an hour though was good, I heard it should be done in like 5-10 minutes. That may have caused suffocation. My pots haven't been continually watered though, for a little more than a week I have been watering until a decent amount of water runs off, and then I let it completely dry which can take 4 days to 2 depending on my plant. Soil ph is most likely ok the test I did came back with a decent #, so I dont think its soil or water ph issues. Like bob said to, my soil is ph buffered as well. Mabe its root trouble, but this doesn't look like root rot.

 

[Ayokiwi717]

So if you're going by FF feed chart you're effectively giving 100% recommended EC, split into 2x waterings per week?
When are they getting water in-between!?
(plus you weren't watering until runoff)

I think salt build-up was your first worry 100%, I think you were correct.

But then you flushed endless amounts of water through it and it's kept the roots damp for too long...
You might be dealing with root rot too. Or low pH. Or a combination.

Something very serious at the root zone has happened, for die off like that in 2-3 days.

If you're confident you flushed that build-up out, the best thing to do is let it dry.
It's literally all you can do. Damage is already done.

They need time.
Plain water. No nutrient for now.
Be really honest with yourself about whether they "need" a watering / feed and when. It's something we can't call. You need to judge when.

Don't ever measure your waste to determine soil pH. And don't ever think what you're putting in is what your soil pH is too.
It's the simple truth.
You'll be chasing your tail forever...
Soil pH absolutely does matter.

Two things seem to standout here...

1. Watering 50% EC twice per week, no water in-between, no runoff.
2. Continuously wet soil.

When you potted the soil, did you add any extra aeration like perlite and how much?

When were you giving plain water between feeds, if feeding twice per week?

I apologize if I seem rude or blunt too. But I'm just trying to be straight forward with you as I can.
Had your same problem more than once...

P.S. you may have heard the general rule "overwatering + overfeeding is the fastest way to kill a plant". It's extremely true. And is always a difficult lesson to learn + put into practice.

99% of ALL problems in soil, is most often the result of overwatering + overfeeding.

I may have found another issue. I've been giving cold water to them alot of times fresh out of the tap. This could be a reason for phosphorus intake issues. Hmmm

 

[kovidkough]

I think, your in denial, problems in soil build with inertia the plant just won't respond as they do in hydro. damage won't fix itself. let her go into the light...just feed water feed til harvest. start over fresh and start a journal Kiwi we may find it easier to help you with time lines

 

[Ayokiwi717]

I think, your in denial, problems in soil build with inertia the plant just won't respond as they do in hydro. damage won't fix itself. let her go into the light...just feed water feed til harvest. start over fresh and start a journal Kiwi we may find it easier to help you with time lines

Im going to start monitoring the temps of my water to see if thats causing an issue. I dont see how a ph balanced soil and a already flushed soil is causing the problems. Could it be, it very well might, but I don't think its the issue. Its something I'm not seeing. I wander if the temp of my water has something to do with this as well. O well, hopefully she will keep packing a little more buds. I think she will atleast beat my last grow. Got a whopping 27 grams from 2 plants . This grow is by far my highiest yield. Each plant at the very least probably has an ounce on them, some have more probably. I only need a little more than two ounces to have paid fully for this set up. As long as this won't kill her I'm good. If she produces an ounce I already did good. Cost me 300-400 for an ounce were i live. So I live in a state were low yields arent necessarily losing money. I dont need to grow like 4 ounces a plant to have saved money like some of you in fully legalized states deal with.

 

[Aussieaceae]

I do see that this is spreading more to the sugar leaves as well slowly killing them off. It is progressing. It was fine the first week after the flush, atleast it seemed ok. One problem with the flush is it took me an hour to do. I dont have the ability to go outside and flush it with a hose. I got to get a gallon jug water it, have my pot on a saucer and water until it feels up to a certain amount, drain that run off, and repeat. I probably need a spray feeding bottle to speed up the process. I cant imagine 8 gallons of water through a 2.5 gallon pot is not an adequate flush. I dont think flushing for an hour though was good, I heard it should be done in like 5-10 minutes. That may have caused suffocation. My pots haven't been continually watered though, for a little more than a week I have been watering until a decent amount of water runs off, and then I let it completely dry which can take 4 days to 2 depending on my plant. Soil ph is most likely ok the test I did came back with a decent #, so I dont think its soil or water ph issues. Like bob said to, my soil is ph buffered as well. Mabe its root trouble, but this doesn't look like root rot.

Did you add any extra aeration to your soil?

How did you test soil pH?

What's your input EC according to the chart?

I do think you likely have root rot.
(that's what it's always been for me with similar die off, and that fast)

I may have found another issue. I've been giving cold water to them alot of times fresh out of the tap. This could be a reason for phosphorus intake issues. Hmmm

Look at phosphorus on the chart and it's own availability in regards to pH.

Not only that, but phosphorus like sulphur has the potential to infact acidify the root zone, locking itself out.
And continuously wet soil only makes it worse. Continuously wet soil affects pH as well.

Same as overfeeding nutrient can lock it out.

The same way root rot can lock "everything"
out.
If your roots have rot, they're generally unable to drink adequate amounts water. Therefore they're unable to take up adequate nutrient as well.

Plants with root rot often look hungry and thirsty at the same time.
Grower assumes the plant needs more food or water and does so.
It's a continuous cycle and never stops.

99% of problems in soil is the result of overwatering + overfeeding.

Best thing to do in such a case, is dry the soil more between waterings and use only plain water, until you see some improvement.
No amount of nutrients or water is going to fix it. You've already flushed your soil.
Damage is already done. Nothing you can do about it. They need time.

P.S. I also think next time adding more aeration to your soil will help a lot too.
It'll be more difficult to overwater that way too.
Forget about determining soil pH with a water probe, if that's what you have. It's inaccurate for a start.

 

[kovidkough]

Im going to start monitoring the temps of my water to see if thats causing an issue. I dont see how a ph balanced soil and a already flushed soil is causing the problems. Could it be, it very well might, but I don't think its the issue. Its something I'm not seeing. I wander if the temp of my water has something to do with this as well. O well, hopefully she will keep packing a little more buds. I think she will atleast beat my last grow. Got a whopping 27 grams from 2 plants . This grow is by far my highiest yield. Each plant at the very least probably has an ounce on them, some have more probably. I only need a little more than two ounces to have paid fully for this set up. As long as this won't kill her I'm good. If she produces an ounce I already did good. Cost me 300-400 for an ounce were i live. So I live in a state were low yields arent necessarily losing money. I dont need to grow like 4 ounces a plant to have saved money like some of you in fully legalized states deal with.

trust me legal weed ain't cheap. 20$ a gram at some shops here . I cant lose out either

 

[Lockedin]

So im having a problem with my plant and phosphorus. The progression of the deficiency seems to be pretty crazy. This all happened within under a week. Probably only 2-3 days!!! I flushed her last week do to concerns with to nutrient lockout and burn since I was not watering until run off. I gave her 8 gallons for 2.5 gallon pot. I bumped up nutes yesterday to a half dose instead of there usual quarter dose. I tested the soil pH and it was reading at a 6.9-7.0 which should be fine. Im once again testing by filling a shotglass halfway with soil and the then add water and let it sit for an hour or a little longer. My water ph is ok as well. I really dont know what to do and tired of just buying this and buying that and buy buy buy buy buy. Today I noticed the one leaf that was affected is getting a little worst so I assume the plant is still having deficiencies. Idk I'm less than 3 weeks away from the breeders chop down time. So I still got a little ways to go if I want to chop down at the soonest point. I cant see anything wrong with soil ph, water ph, just flushed last week so how could it be nutrient lockout. I only gave her nutes twice since last Tuesday. What could be the fucking issue!!!!

@Ayokiwi717 --- Looks like some extensive damage - bummer to see that!

Great advice here - my advice would be to use the advice that make sense for your grow and apply it.

The thread helped me immensely. IMHO should be required reading for all soil growers and noobs like me.
(Could mods make that thread a sticky?)

FFOF ( Fox Farms Ocean Forest ) made Simple - Autoflower

This thread was created to help those who seem to overthink the ease of use of this highly ammended bag soil. I see many growers both new and experienced seem to post “ issues “ when trying to run this medium. I am merely showing a simple no frills method of container / bag grows for autos...

www.rollitup.org

 

[Ayokiwi717]

@Ayokiwi717 --- Looks like some extensive damage - bummer to see that!

Great advice here - my advice would be to use the advice that make sense for your grow and apply it.

The thread helped me immensely. IMHO should be required reading for all soil growers and noobs like me.
(Could mods make that thread a sticky?)

FFOF ( Fox Farms Ocean Forest ) made Simple - Autoflower

This thread was created to help those who seem to overthink the ease of use of this highly ammended bag soil. I see many growers both new and experienced seem to post “ issues “ when trying to run this medium. I am merely showing a simple no frills method of container / bag grows for autos...

www.rollitup.org

Im going to control the temp of my water, and mabe give it plain next water next time to see how that helps her. She seems to be the pickiest to something compared to the rest, none of issues like her regarding phosphorus. I didn't add perlite either. I will just have to wait and see. Overwatering was not an issue this grow. Feeding may have been more of an issue since I didn't water until runoff until probably week 6. At the very least o got 18 days if I chop exactly at breeders time, I will just have to see how this evolves. Hopefully she ends up fixing herself eventually.

 

[Aussieaceae]

Im going to control the temp of my water, and mabe give it plain next water next time to see how that helps her. She seems to be the pickiest to something compared to the rest, none of issues like her regarding phosphorus. I didn't add perlite either. I will just have to wait and see. Overwatering was not an issue this grow. Feeding may have been more of an issue since I didn't water until runoff until probably week 6. At the very least o got 18 days if I chop exactly at breeders time, I will just have to see how this evolves. Hopefully she ends up fixing herself eventually.

Well no offense, but you're essentially neglecting the possibility of it being root rot, by this post. ^

No added aeration. (nearly everyone adds perlite to ffof)

Watering twice per week.

Chronic overwatering habits.

Lockout.

Die off.

What about these points doesn't scream to you root rot?

Take it or leave it man. No harm done. Just being helpful.

All the best and good luck resolving your plant's trouble.

Hope it comes around.

 

[Lockedin]

Im going to control the temp of my water, and mabe give it plain next water next time to see how that helps her. She seems to be the pickiest to something compared to the rest, none of issues like her regarding phosphorus. I didn't add perlite either. I will just have to wait and see. Overwatering was not an issue this grow. Feeding may have been more of an issue since I didn't water until runoff until probably week 6. At the very least o got 18 days if I chop exactly at breeders time, I will just have to see how this evolves. Hopefully she ends up fixing herself eventually.

I'd agree - sounds like feeding. IMHO - do nothing for a few days at least, then apply the advice in the posts above.
I'm new, so I gotta admit that I study threads like this to avoid problems rather than correct them.
Next grow, maybe set one plant aside and grow it with soil / water only. --- then see how it compares at harvest.

As much as I'm eager to learn everything now, I've learned that A LOT of the various tests and indicators don't mean a lot to me yet, and that's fine - I'm new, so RIU hasn't sent my monogrammed master grower / black belt lab coat just yet. (Size Lg plz ).

Don't sweat your water temps - Put a 5 gal bucket with a few gal of tap water in your grow room the day before watering - stir it vigorously for a few minutes before applying. Now you don't have to screw with it at all until you sort out the rest of your grow game.

I saw above that you say you ran 8 gallons of water through a 2.5 gallon pot to flush it?
Why? (again, I'm new, so I'm genuinely asking) ---- I can safely say that none of my plants has had 8 gallons run through it since seed; and I water to runoff everytime. --- appx. 36 oz ea. currently, but the pots are starting to get light quicker, so adjustments coming soon.

The slow speed of soil can be frustrating - there's no instant gratification --- except for the relaxation I derive from this slow paced, gratifying hobby.
Don't forget to enjoy yourself.

 

[Ayokiwi717]

I'd agree - sounds like feeding. IMHO - do nothing for a few days at least, then apply the advice in the posts above.
I'm new, so I gotta admit that I study threads like this to avoid problems rather than correct them.
Next grow, maybe set one plant aside and grow it with soil / water only. --- then see how it compares at harvest.

As much as I'm eager to learn everything now, I've learned that A LOT of the various tests and indicators don't mean a lot to me yet, and that's fine - I'm new, so RIU hasn't sent my monogrammed master grower / black belt lab coat just yet. (Size Lg plz ).

Don't sweat your water temps - Put a 5 gal bucket with a few gal of tap water in your grow room the day before watering - stir it vigorously for a few minutes before applying. Now you don't have to screw with it at all until you sort out the rest of your grow game.

I saw above that you say you ran 8 gallons of water through a 2.5 gallon pot to flush it?
Why? (again, I'm new, so I'm genuinely asking) ---- I can safely say that none of my plants has had 8 gallons run through it since seed; and I water to runoff everytime. --- appx. 36 oz ea. currently, but the pots are starting to get light quicker, so adjustments coming soon.

The slow speed of soil can be frustrating - there's no instant gratification --- except for the relaxation I derive from this slow paced, gratifying hobby.
Don't forget to enjoy yourself.

I was not watering until runoff as was building up salts in my pots. My one plant was suffering from calcium and magnesium deficiency pretty bad which o believe was nute lockout. Its not bad to flush before a change in nutrients as well such as changing from veg to flower. I gave each a flush and bought cal mag. My girl that had calcium and mag issues got fixed through that flush. I dont regret flushing, I regret not doing it at 5 weeks, and not watering until runoff. Flushing your plants is good for three thing, the first is if your ph in your soil is out of whack or you got nutrient lockout, the second is for changes in nutes such as like I said above the change from veg to flower, and the third time is a flush before harvest. I flushed for to long, and the cold water most likely didn't help, I dont know if thats my issue, but it could be. You will defiantly understand the importance with flushing as you learn. I didn't know that was a good thing until recently. Every plant responded well to the flush except for this guy for what ever reason.

 

[Ayokiwi717]

Well no offense, but you're essentially neglecting the possibility of it being root rot, by this post. ^

No added aeration. (nearly everyone adds perlite to ffof)

Watering twice per week.

Chronic overwatering habits.

Lockout.

Die off.

What about these points doesn't scream to you root rot?

Take it or leave it man. No harm done. Just being helpful.

All the best and good luck resolving your plant's trouble.

Hope it comes around.

The pics online dont look at all compared to my issue, I wasn't chronic over watering i was waiting until soil was dry, I am using happy frog not ocean forest, none of the others are having this issue when they were treated the same. There mabe some root damage from lack of oxygen when I flushed as well as cold water, I just dont think its root rot. She never showed signs of being overwatered either. Not saying root rot isn't a possibility, I just dont think that is the case. Believe me I know root rot, I killed tons of plants through that. This grow, not one single plant ever was overwatered atleast to my knowledge.

 

[Star Dog]

Idk how someone that can't grow a plant is such an expert on specific nutrient deficiencie, IMHO as long as you keep diagnosing problems wrongly you'll never grow a healthy plant.
Listen to the advice given and be patient.
Fwiw cold nutrient isn't causing that problem.

 

[Jimbo the Gael]

Are you in plastic pots? If so eliminating root rot as a possibility is pretty simple, examine the root zone. Pull her out as if you're going to transplant her, and take a look. Better yet, actually transplant her into a slightly larger container, if you have the space. Then you can be sure she has access to nutes without being fed, or overfed.

 

[Ayokiwi717]

Idk how someone that can't grow a plant is such an expert on specific nutrient deficiencie, IMHO as long as you keep diagnosing problems wrongly you'll never grow a healthy plant.
Listen to the advice given and be patient.
Fwiw cold nutrient isn't causing that problem.

Im not an expert at deficiencies, but when you have brown dots all on your leaves that pretty obvious its calcium problems. Purplish dark blotches on leaves is phosphorous. Leaves that are turning really light in color can be mag deficiencies. It isn't really hard you just google or go on here. Some deficiencies are really easy to spot while others could be a couple things. No expert, but you don't need to be an expert to tell what the deficiency is. The problem comes with how to solve that issue. Is it root rot, nute lockout, is it cold weather, etc.

 

[Ayokiwi717]

Are you in plastic pots? If so eliminating root rot as a possibility is pretty simple, examine the root zone. Pull her out as if you're going to transplant her, and take a look. Better yet, actually transplant her into a slightly larger container, if you have the space. Then you can be sure she has access to nutes without being fed, or overfed.

I have autos so transplanting is a no go. I transplant only once with autos when they are two weeks old. Yes I transplant autos, and no its not an issue if you do it once and dont brutalized the root system.

 

[Aussieaceae]

Im not an expert at deficiencies, but when you have brown dots all on your leaves that pretty obvious its calcium problems. Purplish dark blotches on leaves is phosphorous. Leaves that are turning really light in color can be mag deficiencies. It isn't really hard you just google or go on here. Some deficiencies are really easy to spot while others could be a couple things. No expert, but you don't need to be an expert to tell what the deficiency is. The problem comes with how to solve that issue. Is it root rot, nute lockout, is it cold weather, etc.

Sorry to say mate, but you're dreaming. A picture doesn't tell you zilch.

Obviously you know much more than anyone else here though. If you know what it is, why are you asking?





Take into consideration your "pictures" of deficiencies, then compare it to those two charts...

What deficiency do you have exactly?
And how do you know it isn't the cause of a lockout (antagonism) Vs deficiency (synergy)?
And how is it "obviously" a calcium deficiency, not a lockout?

Simple truth...99% of ALL problems and deficiencies in soil, is the result of overwatering and overfeeding.

I apologize for the mild troll. I'm being helpful. Hate me all you like, I'm a stubborn jackass as well.

P.S. I put it to you that if your soil's ph is indeed what you say, you most likely aren't "deficient" in calcium. You more than likely have more than one of it's antagonists, locking calcium out. Your soil is only as good as it's weakest link.

Then there's the possibility of root rot. And root rot locks out everything...

 

[Jimbo the Gael]

Im not an expert at deficiencies, but when you have brown dots all on your leaves that pretty obvious its calcium problems. Purplish dark blotches on leaves is phosphorous. Leaves that are turning really light in color can be mag deficiencies. It isn't really hard you just google or go on here. Some deficiencies are really easy to spot while others could be a couple things. No expert, but you don't need to be an expert to tell what the deficiency is. The problem comes with how to solve that issue. Is it root rot, nute lockout, is it cold weather, etc.

FWIW, every calcium deficiency I've seen personally had rust coloured spots on the leaves. Maybe I just didn't let it progress far enough to turn brown.

 

[Crazy_Ace420]

Sounds like your soil mixture is the culprit. Could be not enough perlite, you said you didnt add any? Im growin in soil and i had to add a shiiiittt ton of perlite. They say 30/70 perlite/soil ratio but i do closer to 50/50 . I would lay off feeding nutrients for a couple weeks and see how plain PH adjusted 6.2 water does. I adjust my tap water. give the plants like warmish/cool temp water. Some even say after you adjust the PH of your tap water for feeding, give it a day uncapped to evaporate the chlorine(myth?) and retest waters PH before feeding. I've heard sometimes adding nutrients can raise the PH of the water, even after adjusting.

 

[pulpoinspace]

When growing in soil, the best way to feed your plants is to top dress with more of the soil. This way you're adding nutrients and pH buffer.