Chauvin Trial

[HGCC]

Not sure jan 6th really shows that. I was under the impression a number of cops were complicit in it. The selfies with rioters and such wasn't a good look.

While there certainly are good cops and in theory it should be a noble occupation, those good cops stay silent far to often and I think that's almost a bigger taint on the organization. The public can't rely in good cops to protect them from the bad, and the bad tend to be protected quite heavily by the organization they are part of, so to me, that just paints them all with the same brush. They aren't on my team.

 

[RioBlazeLotaMota]

You're getting ahead of yourself. The trial about determining whether or not he used legal/approved/safe techniques. You're in no position to make that determination, nor am I. We'll know later on and you can come back and either say, "told ya so", or, "I was wrong".

Well said!

 

[zeddd]

Fuck the cops, defund them

 

[mooray]

Agreed, I empathize here ,that job is seeing human nature in the worst light every day,unbelievable stress load, could be fighting for your life in a instant etc. It's the certain% of F up cops who scar the decent ones and make their job damn near impossible, I don't generalize and say all police suck it's not true one bad rotted apple can taint the whole bushel. Where in a situation where a certain% of police who get off brutalizing and excessively beating people down paired w/a civilian pop lacking common sense is merging to create a perfect storm. Blame can be put on both sides here and i've previously stated my procedure for walking away from over 25 police stops in my lifetime w/out a scratch COMMON SENSE and putting myself in their shoes.ccguns

Yeah a little empathy goes a long way. It's not like the police have high rates of suicide and alcoholism and domestic abuse from all those wonderful days on the job. And it's no excuse, so we still hang all the Chauvin's out there just the same, because it's too late at that point. Being a cop is not so different from being in the military where you know that immersing people in hardcore negativity is going to yield some negative side effects. To deny it is to bury our heads in the sand, but of course we naturally want to do that because it's easier than empathizing with someone we despise.

And that leads us to the really *really* effing hard part, because these people who commit these atrocities, these people that are literally murderers, are to some degree victims as well. I know, that shit hurts to say, especially when you think about Floyd's murder, but it's true. And maybe if we put half the effort into helping the police maintain their mental health, as we do into demonizing them, maybe we'd have a lot fewer Floyd's out there with a fucked up cop committing murder in plain sight thinking it's all good.

 

[mooray]

Not sure jan 6th really shows that. I was under the impression a number of cops were complicit in it. The selfies with rioters and such wasn't a good look.

While there certainly are good cops and in theory it should be a noble occupation, those good cops stay silent far to often and I think that's almost a bigger taint on the organization. The public can't rely in good cops to protect them from the bad, and the bad tend to be protected quite heavily by the organization they are part of, so to me, that just paints them all with the same brush. They aren't on my team.

You're right that there are at least a couple degrees of corruption, one being the direct offenders, which is a really small percentage, then there's the support via silence/complacency and that's obviously a much larger percentage. That principle is literally visible in the Floyd videos. However, if you're going to stand by that principle, then you have to apply it consistently, and there is no team where there isn't a small shitty percentage with a larger percentage of complacent support, so your last sentence comes off like you're on a good team and there really aren't any, there's only teams that are more/less shitty than others and you'd have to perform some serious fogdog mental gymnastics to speak from a team with any real pride. Like yeah sure your team only killed twenty kittens and the other team killed five hundred kittens, but...fuck them too, you know what I mean?

 

[Star Dog]

There's is no excuse regardless what he encountered earlier that day or any other day, this wasn't something that escalated, he arrived (last) once Floyd was cuffed and in the car where he posed no threat, if he didn't try to be such a fucking big shot Floyd would be alive and he wouldn't be facing murder, let's hope justice is dispensed.

 

[HGCC]

You're right that there are at least a couple degrees of corruption, one being the direct offenders, which is a really small percentage, then there's the support via silence/complacency and that's obviously a much larger percentage. That principle is literally visible in the Floyd videos. However, if you're going to stand by that principle, then you have to apply it consistently, and there is no team where there isn't a small shitty percentage with a larger percentage of complacent support, so your last sentence comes off like you're on a good team and there really aren't any, there's only teams that are more/less shitty than others and you'd have to perform some serious fogdog mental gymnastics to speak from a team with any real pride. Like yeah sure your team only killed twenty kittens and the other team killed five hundred kittens, but...fuck them too, you know what I mean?

Sir, my team is 480 less murdered kittens bad than the police. I get the argument but I just don't see police as protecting the general public, my team is the general public that come across crazy cops in our daily lives. I see them more as a protection racket out of a 20s gangster film, you pay and they generally keep things safe but every now and then they are gonna come along and tip your apple cart.

Silly example aside, I do think there is a good and bad side, but not sure about taking pride in it. If a member of the public killed a guy other members of the public (speaking as a whole) hold them accountable. We wouldn't try to protect them. Within little sub groups sure, but not as a whole group and general policy. The general public reviles cop killers, the police do not hold their peers to that same standard.

 

[mooray]

I don't quite follow the part where you that you don't see them as protecting the public. Since there's no magic or time masheen, the protection happens after something bad has already happened, then there's a void where bad things aren't happening. What I mean by that is, someone gets killed and the vast majority of the time there's nothing to be done about that because we can't bodyguard every person, but then the police investigate and hopefully catch the bad guy and then there's a period of time where they're in jail and every minute that bad guy is in jail not hurting someone else, is how the police are protecting the general public. Every person in jail that's done something bad is a representation of who-knows-how-many other things the police have stopped. So, when we include the practical limitations of time/money/energy, I don't see how you can feel that way in a general sense, unless you want to claim there's either nobody in jail, or that they're all innocent.

The team thing has me confused, because you're presenting the teams as murderers and non-murderers, but if the police aren't on your team and you're on team not-murderers, then the police are murderers. I understand the issues about not holding their own to the same standard as ourselves, but I'd have to disagree with such a broad brush painting and if you get to equate the vast minority with all, then you're probably on some other team that's not so great either. So we're generally pretty left here and most of us do like Obama, but Obama has his own pile of dead brown babies to answer for, which we tend to mental gymnastics our way out of accepting so that we can keep feeling good about being dems and thinking Obama was our guy. Is that so different? Are you sure you're not on any team with a parallel to the police?

 

[HGCC]

Different perspectives I guess, not sure if I entirely get your argument, but parts certainly make plenty of sense. The Obama example is a good one. I found him problematic, did not defend him when he did shitty stuff, did defend him over tan suit gate and mustardgate type criticism.

We are kind of going around on linguistics, team might not be the best description, but I think we might differ on how we view the role and nature of police in society.

 

[Fogdog]

Different perspectives I guess, not sure if I entirely get your argument, but parts certainly make plenty of sense. The Obama example is a good one. I found him problematic, did not defend him when he did shitty stuff, did defend him over tan suit gate and mustardgate type criticism.

We are kind of going around on linguistics, team might not be the best description, but I think we might differ on how we view the role and nature of police in society.

His "perspective" is confused. Just like a Trumper, @mooray has this jumbled and compartmentalized system of belief that doesn't rest on facts.

It's not that complicated.

We all saw it. Floyd was murdered. He will probably get off but not because he didn't torture-murder Floyd. He will get off because people in power wrote the laws to favor cops, especially white ones. Maybe not. Because we all saw it.

It doesn't take a wall of text to explain.

 

[Fogdog]

It's not very complicated at all:

Derek Chauvin should not have knelt on George Floyd’s neck after he stopped resisting, former sergeant testifies
Chauvin also failed to immediately tell a supervisor he had knelt on Floyd’s neck, the sergeant said during the fourth day of testimony in the former officer’s murder trial

April 1, 2021 at 5:12 p.m. PDT
MINNEAPOLIS — Derek Chauvin should not have knelt on George Floyd’s neck after he stopped resisting, a former supervisor testified Thursday.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/04/01/derek-chauvin-trial/

See, wall of text not needed.

Simple, cut and dry case.

 

[CCGNZ]

Not sure jan 6th really shows that. I was under the impression a number of cops were complicit in it. The selfies with rioters and such wasn't a good look.

While there certainly are good cops and in theory it should be a noble occupation, those good cops stay silent far to often and I think that's almost a bigger taint on the organization. The public can't rely in good cops to protect them from the bad, and the bad tend to be protected quite heavily by the organization they are part of, so to me, that just paints them all with the same brush. They aren't on my team.

Heres the deal on good cop/ bad cop. When your out there trying to make a diff. and keep your nose clean and go home safe to your loved ones you will inevitably see things other cops do that doesn't sit right with your standards or morals. To openly confront is a monumentous decision that will certainly throw your life into disarray on top of the fact that if you go to superiors it is in no way guaranteed to go your way. Even just the mere decision to turn your back and not go along saying I don't want any part of or disagree with or whatever will have you ostrasized. Imagine being known as a totally clean straight shooter in the midst of a few guys who don't exactly fly straight you get a scary situation where you need backup pronto,how fast are those guys going to get there,your life is on the line and there not exactly breaking records to assist you,and they even will say that to someone on an island. THINK SERPICO, maybe not as pronounced but you get the idea. This is how it works behind closed doors.ccguns

 

[CCGNZ]

It's not very complicated at all:

Derek Chauvin should not have knelt on George Floyd’s neck after he stopped resisting, former sergeant testifies
Chauvin also failed to immediately tell a supervisor he had knelt on Floyd’s neck, the sergeant said during the fourth day of testimony in the former officer’s murder trial

April 1, 2021 at 5:12 p.m. PDT
MINNEAPOLIS — Derek Chauvin should not have knelt on George Floyd’s neck after he stopped resisting, a former supervisor testified Thursday.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/04/01/derek-chauvin-trial/

See, wall of text not needed.

Simple, cut and dry case.

EXACTLY,FDOG,just look at Chauvin's face,he's absolutely creaming in his shorts getting off on it,savoring the power,I don't see how it can be looked at from any other angle.ccguns

 

[CCGNZ]

EXACTLY,FDOG,just look at Chauvin's face,he's absolutely creaming in his shorts getting off on it,savoring the power,I don't see how it can be looked at from any other angle.ccguns

The guy is probably on some kind of juice also, he looks bulkier then than now at trial. Seen lots of law enforcement types at gym and know their doing roids,growth hormones etc.. You get piss tested to drive a forklift but not to make life and death decisions w/a gun at your side,police unions go beserk over testing officers. And juice makes you super aggressive put 2+2 together, EASY CALL ccguns

 

[CCGNZ]

The guy is probably on some kind of juice also, he looks bulkier then than now at trial. Seen lots of law enforcement types at gym and know their doing roids,growth hormones etc.. You get piss tested to drive a forklift but not to make life and death decisions w/a gun at your side,police unions go beserk over testing officers. And juice makes you super aggressive put 2+2 together, EASY CALL ccguns

Thanks STDOG, star dog = Chemdogx Tres Dog (Chem dog x Afghani)LOLccguns

 

[Star Dog]

The guy is probably on some kind of juice also, he looks bulkier then than now at trial. Seen lots of law enforcement types at gym and know their doing roids,growth hormones etc.. You get piss tested to drive a forklift but not to make life and death decisions w/a gun at your side,police unions go beserk over testing officers. And juice makes you super aggressive put 2+2 together, EASY CALL ccguns

Testing officers isn't a unreasonable request in any way, they're in charge of guns and working with the general public.
Idk the answer but objecting to drug tests has alarm bells ringing, it's got that I've got something to hide ring about it, that is unacceptable in any society.

 

[HGCC]

Heres the deal on good cop/ bad cop. When your out there trying to make a diff. and keep your nose clean and go home safe to your loved ones you will inevitably see things other cops do that doesn't sit right with your standards or morals. To openly confront is a monumentous decision that will certainly throw your life into disarray on top of the fact that if you go to superiors it is in no way guaranteed to go your way. Even just the mere decision to turn your back and not go along saying I don't want any part of or disagree with or whatever will have you ostrasized. Imagine being known as a totally clean straight shooter in the midst of a few guys who don't exactly fly straight you get a scary situation where you need backup pronto,how fast are those guys going to get there,your life is on the line and there not exactly breaking records to assist you,and they even will say that to someone on an island. THINK SERPICO, maybe not as pronounced but you get the idea. This is how it works behind closed doors.ccguns

Sure, fully agree man, that's one of the reasons I don't view the police in a positive way and also view it as a corrupt organization where the good are complacent with the bad. I didn't really go into why that happens, but yeah, fully agree that is a primary reason. There are absolutely good cops in it for the right reasons, but they do end up having to go along with the bad elements and that taints the whole pool.

Big into trying to use examples, so...let's say you are a great dude of excellent moral character but happen to grow up in the hood with gangs stretching as far as the eye can see. You kinda got to join or get the crap kicked out of you (kind of a bad fit here since you don't have to be a cop), that gang has separated itself from the community at that point. You can't go against the gang, they will fuck you up, but you're still a good upstanding person other than sitting silent or kinda passively standing around while the group does terrible stuff. I guess what I am trying to illustrate is that a group can be viewed as bad while containing good individuals, but I am still going to view that group and the good ones in a negative light. From my end, not being part of the gang, doesn't matter one bit if there are good individuals if they follow the bad acts of the group, their reason for joining doesn't matter in terms of me getting jumped, I would lump all of them in the same boat.

It definitely is a tricky moral situation and line.

 

[CCGNZ]

Testing officers isn't a unreasonable request in any way, they're in charge of guns and working with the general public.
Idk the answer but objecting to drug tests has alarm bells ringing, it's got that I've got something to hide ring about it, that is unacceptable in any society.

It's absolutely insane that people in that position w/power to make life/death or life altering decisions are not drug tested but it's a fact, and police unions are some of the strongest unions in the US ,and are take a 100% stance against drug testing.ccguns

 

[CCGNZ]

Sure, fully agree man, that's one of the reasons I don't view the police in a positive way and also view it as a corrupt organization where the good are complacent with the bad. I didn't really go into why that happens, but yeah, fully agree that is a primary reason. There are absolutely good cops in it for the right reasons, but they do end up having to go along with the bad elements and that taints the whole pool.

Big into trying to use examples, so...let's say you are a great dude of excellent moral character but happen to grow up in the hood with gangs stretching as far as the eye can see. You kinda got to join or get the crap kicked out of you (kind of a bad fit here since you don't have to be a cop), that gang has separated itself from the community at that point. You can't go against the gang, they will fuck you up, but you're still a good upstanding person other than sitting silent or kinda passively standing around while the group does terrible stuff. I guess what I am trying to illustrate is that a group can be viewed as bad while containing good individuals, but I am still going to view that group and the good ones in a negative light. From my end, not being part of the gang, doesn't matter one bit if there are good individuals if they follow the bad acts of the group, their reason for joining doesn't matter in terms of me getting jumped, I would lump all of them in the same boat.

It definitely is a tricky moral situation and line.

Absolutely agree,moral dilemas are never easy, as ther is really no easy black/white answers to these issues and we are in a world that is increasingly seeing more and more and even more shades of GREY.ccguns

 

[HGCC]

Shades of green...different views on limiting N during flower. You know, to keep it weed oriented yuk yuk yuk.