My cabinet grow journal!

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born2killspam

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It looks like a combo of heat stress, pH fluctuation, over-watering, and bad nutrient proportions or toxic salt buildup.. Over watering in MG timed release soil can definately make plants look like that, and MG fert in general really shouldn't be used near full strength (IF AT ALL)..
Flush them with pH 6.7-6.8 water thoroughly, then don't water them again until they are almost bone-dry.. Then give them a light dose of transplant fert or something that isn't too light on potassium and micro-nutrients..
The plants that don't look bad now will go down-hill fast like the others.. Those are far from 'minor problems'..
 
lilmafia513

lilmafia513

Well-Known Member
born2killspam said:
It looks like a combo of heat stress, pH fluctuation, over-watering, and bad nutrient proportions or toxic salt buildup.. Over watering in MG timed release soil can definately make plants look like that, and MG fert in general really shouldn't be used near full strength (IF AT ALL)..
Flush them with pH 6.7-6.8 water thoroughly, then don't water them again until they are almost bone-dry.. Then give them a light dose of transplant fert or something that isn't too light on potassium and micro-nutrients..
The plants that don't look bad now will go down-hill fast like the others.. Those are far from 'minor problems'..
Click to expand...
So, i wanna move past the dumb shit from the other day and if you still want to try to help me, i would realy appreciate it, maybe i just jumped the gun on some constructive criticism, but anyway.......
I thought this to untill i remembered i had been watering with clean PH balanced water only, no nutes. I did the flush and added a small amount of blood meal for nitrogen.
Is this okay, or did i mess up again? Also, i heard there was a cycle to follow with watering, but i thought you just added nutes here and there with watering, do you know about that?
 
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born2killspam

Well-Known Member
I came here to check you out I admit, but I didn't just start ranting about crappy plants with no point, so yea I'm willing to help..
The first thing to address is the over-watering.. I'm pretty positive on that one.. The best cycle to go with would be to water when the soil is almost as light as when you put it into the pot.. Pushing the envelope isn't that risky on this in veg, your plants can wilt a tad, and perk right back up in hours if you push it a little too far.. If you're watering more than once every 3 days you should really question the necessity.. Especially with those plants since healthy plants will drink alot faster.. If they show signs of hunger then feed them.. When a plant is healthy its easy to tell from the growing shoots that they need N.. You can get away with recipes if you fork out the $$ for specialized nutes, but with basic stuff you really gotta read these plants..
pH test, and ppm test the watering run-off and compare it to the values before you dumped it in.. This will tell you ALOT obviously..
Now I'm assuming your MG soil is that time release fert stuff? That could do you in even if you do everything right, but when its over-watered, or even gets wet at Lowes it can create a wonky toxic mix.. Soil run-off ppm tests will tell you this though..
Given the curly leaves etc, I'd be willing to bet that the aspects that seem to be N deficiency are pH uptake related.. Again, just because water is pH adjusted when you pour it, doesn't mean it stays that way.. Especially if you use lemon juice etc since the substitutes for phosphoric acid have absolutely no buffering capacity between 6.5-7.0.. Contrary to popular belief, its not the fact that plants need P anyways that makes phosphoric acid ideal, its the fact that when H3PO4 gets neutralized, it tends to form compounds that allow the mix to resist pH change very well..
As for the blood meal, I doubt you accomplished much good, or bad with that.. Its best used when mixed right into the soil so it can be made bio-available by the microbial forces..
I wouldn't go adding N until you get some run-off readings, and I'd take some clones incase things don't improve.. My best guess is that the MG soil is to blame more than you are (assuming its time-release)..
Schedules can only really be determined after you get to know the particular plants.. Thats one of the reasons alot of ppl love clones (very few surprises).. However much food they need can be applied however you choose.. Some ppl give them weak nutes at every watering, others cycle it and apply stronger feedings.. As long as nutes are available, and non toxic its all good as long as you allow the roots (and microbes) to get at oxygen between waterings..
Next time go with a nice organically rich soil.. You can mix that up yourself with the cheap ingedients from various recipes.. Some lime, some peat, blood/bone meal, and general compost.. Organic is the 'real' time-release fertilizer.. If you start with good soil like that, then you won't need too much additional fertilizer (and probably won't need any for quite a while), good micro-nutes will be available, soil microbes will be happy, and pH will stay reasonable inside the pot..
 
lilmafia513

lilmafia513

Well-Known Member
born2killspam said:
I came here to check you out I admit, but I didn't just start ranting about crappy plants with no point, so yea I'm willing to help..
The first thing to address is the over-watering.. I'm pretty positive on that one.. The best cycle to go with would be to water when the soil is almost as light as when you put it into the pot.. Pushing the envelope isn't that risky on this in veg, your plants can wilt a tad, and perk right back up in hours if you push it a little too far.. If you're watering more than once every 3 days you should really question the necessity.. Especially with those plants since healthy plants will drink alot faster.. If they show signs of hunger then feed them.. When a plant is healthy its easy to tell from the growing shoots that they need N.. You can get away with recipes if you fork out the $$ for specialized nutes, but with basic stuff you really gotta read these plants..
pH test, and ppm test the watering run-off and compare it to the values before you dumped it in.. This will tell you ALOT obviously..
Now I'm assuming your MG soil is that time release fert stuff? That could do you in even if you do everything right, but when its over-watered, or even gets wet at Lowes it can create a wonky toxic mix.. Soil run-off ppm tests will tell you this though..
Given the curly leaves etc, I'd be willing to bet that the aspects that seem to be N deficiency are pH uptake related.. Again, just because water is pH adjusted when you pour it, doesn't mean it stays that way.. Especially if you use lemon juice etc since the substitutes for phosphoric acid have absolutely no buffering capacity between 6.5-7.0.. Contrary to popular belief, its not the fact that plants need P anyways that makes phosphoric acid ideal, its the fact that when H3PO4 gets neutralized, it tends to form compounds that allow the mix to resist pH change very well..
As for the blood meal, I doubt you accomplished much good, or bad with that.. Its best used when mixed right into the soil so it can be made bio-available by the microbial forces..
I wouldn't go adding N until you get some run-off readings, and I'd take some clones incase things don't improve.. My best guess is that the MG soil is to blame more than you are (assuming its time-release)..
Schedules can only really be determined after you get to know the particular plants.. Thats one of the reasons alot of ppl love clones (very few surprises).. However much food they need can be applied however you choose.. Some ppl give them weak nutes at every watering, others cycle it and apply stronger feedings.. As long as nutes are available, and non toxic its all good as long as you allow the roots (and microbes) to get at oxygen between waterings..
Next time go with a nice organically rich soil.. You can mix that up yourself with the cheap ingedients from various recipes.. Some lime, some peat, blood/bone meal, and general compost.. Organic is the 'real' time-release fertilizer.. If you start with good soil like that, then you won't need too much additional fertilizer (and probably won't need any for quite a while), good micro-nutes will be available, soil microbes will be happy, and pH will stay reasonable inside the pot..
Click to expand...
Thank's man, I already took care of the watering, by letting dry out for a few days, after mixing the blood meal into the soil. Watered again but did so untill water came out the bottom of the pots for a second. They look alot more perked up now, and no droopy leaves.

Two still have signs of yellowing on lower leaves, and I added the blood meal again at half dose, yesterday when I saw them. They really seem to be growing pretty fast now which is why I don't understand the slight yellowing at the bottom. I still don't understand, do you mean they have P definciency? Would that be cured by adding some bone meal to the mix?

For future soil mix is this one that sounds good, or close to what you were talking about?
https://www.rollitup.org/view.php?pg=faq&cmd=article&id=465

And finally, i'm still unsure about taking clones, I've heard mix storys about when to take them. How big should the piece be I take off for a clone and where do i cut it from?

Thanks again!!
 
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born2killspam

Well-Known Member
Do nothing.. Just wait, that is the secret.. It takes time (7 days perhaps) to see the full effect of an action, and the last thing you want to do is interfere with recovery before you realize its recovering.. Don't worry about the yellowing old growth.. It may have just written those leaves off and chose to cannibalize them.. Just pay attention to the new growth.. Once they're happy there will be more than enough new growth to make up for losses..
 
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born2killspam

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Sorry I didn't address the soil/cloning.. Yea that soil would be sweet.. Most likely self sustaining nutrient wise the whole way through.. The most important things in there are probably the lime, and micros of some sort.. If you need to chince out, the rest can be added via chemical feeding.. By ALL means though, do go full out on a sweet organic concoction.. It will give you by far the best bud with very little risk of mistakes..
As for cloning, its pretty easy.. Opinions on best times/sizes/temps etc vary so drastically because there is that much room for tinkering with your method without getting into problems.. Personally I like small clones.. I've cloned cuts smaller than the tip of my baby finger, but I normally like 3-4x that size.. (A single node with ~1/2" of green infantile stem).. Other ppl like clones to be 6-8".. I'd suggest you get a box-cutter, a spray bottle that can mist, Some Jiffy pellets (peat pellets) and experiment on a broad scale to see what you like.. Personally I find that too much green on a clone isn't a good thing.. If the leaves are too big I trim the tips of the lobes off to avoid a wilty tangled mess.. When you see the existing leaves begin to yellow like lack of N then you can be pretty confident that its growing roots..
Cloning happens in the bush when critters drop/knock plant shoots to the ground and step in them, you don't need to be a mad scientist to pull it off..
 
lilmafia513

lilmafia513

Well-Known Member
born2killspam said:
Do nothing.. Just wait, that is the secret.. It takes time (7 days perhaps) to see the full effect of an action, and the last thing you want to do is interfere with recovery before you realize its recovering.. Don't worry about the yellowing old growth.. It may have just written those leaves off and chose to cannibalize them.. Just pay attention to the new growth.. Once they're happy there will be more than enough new growth to make up for losses..
Click to expand...
Okay, i can do that......i think.LOL!!
It's hard to not wanna do a bunch of stuff to them everyday, but i can do it. For the leaves that are yellow and wilting... should i just cut them off so it doesn't slow down growth trying to fix it?
 
lilmafia513

lilmafia513

Well-Known Member
born2killspam said:
Sorry I didn't address the soil/cloning.. Yea that soil would be sweet.. Most likely self sustaining nutrient wise the whole way through.. The most important things in there are probably the lime, and micros of some sort.. If you need to chince out, the rest can be added via chemical feeding.. By ALL means though, do go full out on a sweet organic concoction.. It will give you by far the best bud with very little risk of mistakes..
As for cloning, its pretty easy.. Opinions on best times/sizes/temps etc vary so drastically because there is that much room for tinkering with your method without getting into problems.. Personally I like small clones.. I've cloned cuts smaller than the tip of my baby finger, but I normally like 3-4x that size.. (A single node with ~1/2" of green infantile stem).. Other ppl like clones to be 6-8".. I'd suggest you get a box-cutter, a spray bottle that can mist, Some Jiffy pellets (peat pellets) and experiment on a broad scale to see what you like.. Personally I find that too much green on a clone isn't a good thing.. If the leaves are too big I trim the tips of the lobes off to avoid a wilty tangled mess.. When you see the existing leaves begin to yellow like lack of N then you can be pretty confident that its growing roots..
Cloning happens in the bush when critters drop/knock plant shoots to the ground and step in them, you don't need to be a mad scientist to pull it off..
Click to expand...
I have a small razor knife, and spray bottle already, though it's almost dead, but i have rockwool cubes, and propagation plugs, from starting seeds, will these work as clone starters?And i need to get the root-tone to dip in right?The rest sounds easy enough, Thanks man!
 
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born2killspam

Well-Known Member
RW cubes are fine too.. Pretty much anything is.. I wouldn't prune anything that isn't blocking light from better growth until its healthy.. If its decided that they are a good food source, then let them snack.. In reality though it probably doesn't matter much which option you choose on that..
I use rooting gel, its not actually necessary, but a $5 investment for waaay more than needed can't hurt.. It helps get the cut sealed from air right quick, and I'd be willing to say that it helps vigor I s'pose.. Honestly I don't even know what the shelf life of that stuff is, but I bet alot of successful folks are using 10yr old bottles.. The only negative with that I can come up with is the possibility of spreading infection if you're lazy and unlucky.. So actually, if you want to be thorough, sterilize your blade each time, and don't dip right into the bottle, pour a tad out, then discard the leftovers, or experiment by adding it to feed etc perhaps if you really hate waste..
 
lilmafia513

lilmafia513

Well-Known Member
born2killspam said:
RW cubes are fine too.. Pretty much anything is.. I wouldn't prune anything that isn't blocking light from better growth until its healthy.. If its decided that they are a good food source, then let them snack.. In reality though it probably doesn't matter much which option you choose on that..
I use rooting gel, its not actually necessary, but a $5 investment for waaay more than needed can't hurt.. It helps get the cut sealed from air right quick, and I'd be willing to say that it helps vigor I s'pose.. Honestly I don't even know what the shelf life of that stuff is, but I bet alot of successful folks are using 10yr old bottles.. The only negative with that I can come up with is the possibility of spreading infection if you're lazy and unlucky.. So actually, if you want to be thorough, sterilize your blade each time, and don't dip right into the bottle, pour a tad out, then discard the leftovers, or experiment by adding it to feed etc perhaps if you really hate waste..
Click to expand...
Cool man, i don't know what the sex is yet, still i wanna try the cloning process before i get the funk ones from a friend. I will label what i take from what plant so if i get a male i can throw out the whole batch of clones from that plant.
I'll pick up the root gel this weekend and give it a try thanks man, i'll have updates on sunday probably.
 
Abnjm

Abnjm

Well-Known Member
Hey man. Thanks for stopping by my journal. Looks like you're having some of the same issues I had early in the grow. It also looks like the advice you've been given has helped get the issues fixed quickly.

How the hell did people do this grow thing before the internet? LOL!

Subscribed.
 
lilmafia513

lilmafia513

Well-Known Member
Okay Guys, So i got baked before hand and forgot to take the camera with today, so no pics. :cry:

But, I did have a busy lil' evening in the room today!

I watered the four, what i hope to be girls, and also transplanted 4 smaller ones (Germed and put in rockwool cubes last week) into big red cups today. There were about 14 of those, all from bagseed, to keep the cycle going for now.

Soon i will Have fem. PPP's to add to the collection!

Also I took my first Five clones tonight, 5 because i accidentaly clipped one of the bigger four twice.......:shock:while doing so.

I followed the procedures very closely to what i learned in the growfaq's and I think it worked out well!

Then, I did some trimming to get more light coverage and did some tying down to open up the branches a bit.

These things were bushy as hell when i got there tonight!!!!!:weed:

I promise to get pics tomm. when i go over, I have the camera in my jacket already!!!!bongsmilie
 
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