Poland willing to give Ukraine Mig 29s

[DIY-HP-LED]

Biden has been pushing to block these attacks from Putin since we got out of Afghanistan, as admirable as the Ukrainian people have been in standing up to the dictator of Russia, this goes deeper than that.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/russians-running-yearslong-trolling-operation-to-project-their-blame-onto-ukraine.1000483/post-16823785

Biden was even willing to look like a fool when he announced Putin's plans for this war (because all Putin had to do was take a step back and he would have lost nothing and Biden would have lost his credibility).

We don't have any idea outside of what we have seen from Putin (his previous attacks on us, hearings, trials, and investigations here in the states and the UK), and what Biden has had strategically released about what is going on under the surface. So any predictions I have seen about how this is going to turn out, I really don't put much stock into.

But I do have faith that Biden is doing everything that he can to keep us out of a nuclear war and has far better information than anyone else on the planet.

Some things are obvious since this thing blew open into war, right now we are holding our cards close to our chests while we pour arms into Ukraine from old NATO stocks and spread them around along with supplies and new decisive weapons like Stinger and cheaper but very effective NLAWs. I figure if Vlad throws the whole Russian army in or most of it, it will take some time to assemble, he's got 95% of committed forces in now and no reserves. NATO can quickly supply literally millions of former soviet small arms and has been. By the time Vlad concentrates forces the Ukrainians could have a million man army to face him, mostly fighters supported by a population of volunteers to offer logistics. Millions more will be irregulars and partisans behind their lines, if they ever have any and they are being armed and equipped now.

I believe the Ukrainians can win this war and perhaps the threat of a spy game coming out of there could be used to talk sense to him in terms he can understand. Vlad above all others knows the power of the clandestine operations unleashed on his vulnerable empire popped up by dictators and now at home. This and other pressure might bring him around, he knows he can't win and it is an axiom of war that you never corner a rat, especially one with nukes.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Biden has been pushing to block these attacks from Putin since we got out of Afghanistan, as admirable as the Ukrainian people have been in standing up to the dictator of Russia, this goes deeper than that.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/russians-running-yearslong-trolling-operation-to-project-their-blame-onto-ukraine.1000483/post-16823785

Biden was even willing to look like a fool when he announced Putin's plans for this war (because all Putin had to do was take a step back and he would have lost nothing and Biden would have lost his credibility).

We don't have any idea outside of what we have seen from Putin (his previous attacks on us, hearings, trials, and investigations here in the states and the UK), and what Biden has had strategically released about what is going on under the surface. So any predictions I have seen about how this is going to turn out, I really don't put much stock into.

But I do have faith that Biden is doing everything that he can to keep us out of a nuclear war and has far better information than anyone else on the planet.

Vlad can save face and Ukraine can promise not to join NATO, no need if they give him a thumping this time, next time will be a lot fucking harder, NATO or not.

 

[bam0813]

I think we need to spit in Putin’s face, it’s only time before a nfz is imposed but we seem to need to wait until Russia massacres millions in Kyiv before that happens, so send in the Polish planes fully loaded imo

So that means it’s just time before WW3 ? because you can’t have a no fly zone with out enforcing it.

 

[Friendly_Grower]

It's not just the war in Ukraine Putin lost, he lost the spy war and I'll bet his focus will be there. Ukraine provides a launching pad deep into Vlad's empire with lot's of potential human resources for the CIA and they will be going after Belarus and so will the Ukrainians. It also opens up the Black sea and the neighboring former republics are close by and this war puts the CIA right in the middle of the mess being created. Soon Vlad will have many fires to put out and stretch his resources, some of the guns going there will end up in these republics under Putin's thumb. Vlad opened the door for this shit, Ukraine is not a NATO member, it is an independent nation that does not fear Vlad since he's already doing everything he can to harm them.

A note: Vlad would have used tactical nukes already in Ukraine if he did not fear the consequences, he would have done it days ago when he knew he was not only loosing, but was being humiliated. Vlad just acts like a wild and crazy guy when it suits his purposes, he's not unstable, he's pissed and frustrated. He might be delusional, but aren't we all to some degree or another? He ain't nowhere near gone as a typical Trumper, but most dictators end up swallowing their own shit eventually, their own propaganda affects them too after a time.

Vlad's dreams are shattered, he even lost the spy game and Ukraine will bleed his army white and destroy much of his equipment that won't be replaced with a shattered economy in freefall. NATO is looking at this as an investment in the future and by the time Vlad is done his army will be destroyed and the threat removed, much of the perceived threat has been removed already. A little more than a year ago Vlad had the world by the nuts and the POTUS in his pocket, until Biden won the election. It must hurt like Hell to be so humiliated, he will be remembered for his blunders and ruining the country.

Oh it's easy to live with the Shame don't you know.

Step One:
Shut down all independent news outlets.
Step Two:
Quickly pass a law that makes saying anything against the War a 15 year prison sentence.
Step Three:
Use State media to show the Russian people that they adore the leader by having them bring him flowers on live TV of peace and praise him for his leadership.

So Shame? What Shame.
Just make it a law with 15 year punishment if you don't.

The Russian people have no direct access to what is actually happening. They know not that civilians are being murdered because they dare to defend their home land.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Oh it's easy to live with the Shame don't you know.

Step One:
Shut down all independent news outlets.
Step Two:
Quickly pass a law that makes saying anything against the War a 15 year prison sentence.
Step Three:
Use State media to show the Russian people that they adore the leader by having them bring him flowers on live TV of peace and praise him for his leadership.

So Shame? What Shame.
Just make it a law with 15 year punishment if you don't.

The Russian people have no direct access to what is actually happening. They know not that civilians are being murdered because they dare to defend their home land.

Stalin again, they know about Stalin. Stalin and his heirs had the party and empire, Vlad has a Russia that has been exposed to the west (globe) and the good life for 30 years. In Stalin's day communications were limited, these days they are robust and dense, bad news travels like wildfire. The more troops Vlad sends in the more who will return with tales to tell, the Ukrainians will be broadcasting the truth, along with a heavy dose of propaganda over their analog military radios, installed in their equipment full of bored conscripts. Don't kid yourself, word gets around, more so in this age of cellphones with video, Gulags would be hard to redo and that's what it took Stalin, along with the NKVD to fill them. Vlad has no KGB, no political officers and no fanatical SS, he does have a political base however, but that's not the same thing.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

I figure Vlad is more like Mussolini than Hitler, in that he is constrained in the same way as Mussolini, He has a weak economy, poor military equipment and unenthusiastic soldiers with poor moral, Unlike Hitler with his fanatical SS selected and schooled for a decade, Mussolini only had his fascist party and paramilitary, Italy still had a King. Vlad's invasion looks like one of Mussolini's invasions and when met with real force, does not have the will to fight and die. Much off his army is obsolete and a lot of the equipment and people filling the country are useless to his fight, will get in the way and will have to be fed. Hunger can cause thousands of them to stream into NATO countries looking to eat, if the Ukrainians can fuck with their logistics and propagandize them on their military radios while they wait stuck in traffic.

 

[cannabineer]

I figure Vlad is more like Mussolini than Hitler, in that he is constrained in the same way as Mussolini, He has a weak economy, poor military equipment and unenthusiastic soldiers with poor moral, Unlike Hitler with his fanatical SS selected and schooled for a decade, Mussolini only had his fascist party and paramilitary, Italy still had a King. Vlad's invasion looks like one of Mussolini's invasions and when met with real force, does not have the will to fight and die. Much off his army is obsolete and a lot of the equipment and people filling the country are useless to his fight, will get in the way and will have to be fed. Hunger can cause thousands of them to stream into NATO countries looking to eat, if the Ukrainians can fuck with their logistics and propagandize them on their military radios while they wait stuck in traffic.

Mussolini had excellent military equipment, especially aircraft.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Mussolini had excellent military equipment, especially aircraft.

He just couldn't produce them in any quantity

 

[Friendly_Grower]

And just like that there is no three way deal.
Wow bummer.

On Saturday, the Polish government labeled claims it had or will provide its MiGs to Ukraine as “fake news.” A Polish Armed Forces General Command tweet replied to one claim, saying, “All the Polish Air Force #MiG29 aircraft remain at their home bases.”

White House, DoD lower expectations of Polish warplanes for Ukraine

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

And just like that there is no three way deal.
Wow bummer.




White House, DoD lower expectations of Polish warplanes for Ukraine

Looks like the Ukrainians will get F16s and a crash course, I think they want the planes for offense more than defense, AA missiles can take care of most air defense these days. If it's for tactical offense, then transfer a dozen A10s warthogs paint em Blue and Yellow and train the pilots on those with a crash course on the older models. Use what fighters you can get or got to defend them. A10's loaded to the tits with cluster munitions rockets and Napalm would make Vlad's day and make him scream for a no fly zone before all his forces in Ukraine are destroyed or captured in a fucking week! A dozen A10 warthogs would decimate the Russians, completely cut their supplies, destroy their artillery rockets and in country radars, provided the could be defended from air attack. They might lose most of them, but they will decimate his army in Ukraine and lead to many captured generals on very public trial in The Hague for war crimes and crimes against humanity!

 

[Budley Doright]

I still think Ukraine winning this is a fools folly but IMO the longer it takes the more of the horrible truth will make it back to the Russian people. Most modern day governments (regimes) fall from within and I’m thinking that is still the end game here. Unfortunately the ordinary people who wanted none of this will pay the price. Stay the course and fight this war economically and strategically. Do not give that fucker a chance to blame anyone but himself for this shit. The sad truth will be the death of thousands paying the price to achieve this. The other fact is he is a rat, and as stated before, a cornered rat will do what ever it can to escape, although rats are brilliant creatures . God help us all if this turns nuclear. No one will win that war.

 

[Friendly_Grower]

Looks like the Ukrainians will get F16s and a crash course, I think they want the planes for offense more than defense, AA missiles can take care of most air defense these days. If it's for tactical offense, then transfer a dozen A10s warthogs paint em Blue and Yellow and train the pilots on those with a crash course on the older models. Use what fighters you can get or got to defend them. A10's loaded to the tits with cluster munitions rockets and Napalm would make Vlad's day and make him scream for a no fly zone before all his forces in Ukraine are destroyed or captured in a fucking week! A dozen A10 warthogs would decimate the Russians, completely cut their supplies, destroy their artillery rockets and in country radars, provided the could be defended from air attack. They might lose most of them, but they will decimate his army in Ukraine and lead to many captured generals on very public trial in The Hague for war crimes and crimes against humanity!

I don't know.

Volodymyr Zelenskyy isn't doing Ukraine any favors as of today by "Banging on Closed Doors."
He is lashing out at the USA for not providing a NFZ which would start WWIII and he is trying to bite the hand that feeds Ukraine by demanding planes.

As it turns out, the USA doesn't have the F16s to replace what Poland would lose at this time so the deal is not good for Poland.
I totally get it. If Poland gives it's planes away that opens their back side for Putin.

So no USA will not ship F16s to Ukraine. For one, Ukraine pilots are not trained to fly F16s and two, that would be the same as if the USA was fighting Russia.

Unfortunately for Volodymyr Zelenskyy he is being a bad sport by barking back at the only people that are helping.

The honest truth is Ukraine can put up a good fight but they are no match for the Russian Army.
USA President Biden today said correctly that Putin can take a city but he cannot hold the country.

Volodymyr Zelenskyy needs to be ready to form a government in exile.

 

[Friendly_Grower]

I still think Ukraine winning this is a fools folly but IMO the longer it takes the more of the horrible truth will make it back to the Russian people. Most modern day governments (regimes) fall from within and I’m thinking that is still the end game here. Unfortunately the ordinary people who wanted none of this will pay the price. Stay the course and fight this war economically and strategically. Do not give that fucker a chance to blame anyone but himself for this shit. The sad truth will be the death of thousands paying the price to achieve this. The other fact is he is a rat, and as stated before, a cornered rat will do what ever it can to escape, although rats are brilliant creatures . God help us all if this turns nuclear. No one will win that war.

There is no direct path to victory for Ukraine.
The foundation of resistance is being laid and Volodymyr Zelenskyy has been the stand up guy for a T.V. Comedian. He seems to be coming undown a bit today.

 

[amneziaHaze]

soo as long as a country doesnt say we are at war. they are a passive watcher even when they send weapons to kill the enemy?

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

I don't know.

Volodymyr Zelenskyy isn't doing Ukraine any favors as of today by "Banging on Closed Doors."
He is lashing out at the USA for not providing a NFZ which would start WWIII and he is trying to bite the hand that feeds Ukraine by demanding planes.

As it turns out, the USA doesn't have the F16s to replace what Poland would lose at this time so the deal is not good for Poland.
I totally get it. If Poland gives it's planes away that opens their back side for Putin.

So no USA will not ship F16s to Ukraine. For one, Ukraine pilots are not trained to fly F16s and two, that would be the same as if the USA was fighting Russia.

Unfortunately for Volodymyr Zelenskyy he is being a bad sport by barking back at the only people that are helping.

The honest truth is Ukraine can put up a good fight but they are no match for the Russian Army.
USA President Biden today said correctly that Putin can take a city but he cannot hold the country.

Volodymyr Zelenskyy needs to be ready to form a government in exile.

A lot of this is for show and to pressure the west into a no fly zone, it might yet happen, if Vlad uses weapons of mass destruction like tactical nukes or chemical weapons. The Jets and AA systems will have to do, and they will do a very good job and have so far, any Russian flying over Ukraine is doing it over friendly territory where they control the ground, and not very well either. They are staying high up and dropping bombs inaccurately on cities because they can't go down low to hit troops for fear of stingers. Soon there will be other truck mounted systems near these cities with a much greater reach than stingers. Fuck Vlad, he invaded through Belarus too, they will get the fighters because Uncle Sam really wanted them and Poland got a better deal. Yesterday it didn't look like it, but the deal went through, I wonder if they have been reconfigured to use NATO ordnance like sidewinders?

 

[Friendly_Grower]

soo as long as a country doesnt say we are at war. they are a passive watcher even when they send weapons to kill the enemy?

It's crime to say War in Russia punishable by 15 years in prison.
It's a "Special Military Operation."

I agree with you. It's sad and I am all for Russia being thrown out of Ukraine but it is a culturally intertwined area with history going way back.
Putin has a point about the Ukrainian lands being part of different configurations over the centuries.
It's also true they voted to separate from the Russian Federation as soon as they were let off the old Soviet lease.

The history of Russia and that is fascinating.
There are YouTube videos going back through all the Tzars and the rise of the Soviet Union.
The basic argument here is, is it fair to reconquer Ukraine after it officially separated from the Russian Federation.
Putin is after rebuilding Empire. It has to be 80% ego and 20% vanity.

 

[Friendly_Grower]

A lot of this is for show and to pressure the west into a no fly zone, it might yet happen, if Vlad uses weapons of mass destruction like tactical nukes or chemical weapons. The Jets and AA systems will have to do, and they will do a very good job and have so far, any Russian flying over Ukraine is doing it over friendly territory where they control the ground, and not very well either. They are staying high up and dropping bombs inaccurately on cities because they can't go down low to hit troops for fear of stingers. Soon there will be other truck mounted systems near these cities with a much greater reach than stingers. Fuck Vlad, he invaded through Belarus too, they will get the fighters because Uncle Sam really wanted them and Poland got a better deal. Yesterday it didn't look like it, but the deal went through, I wonder if they have been reconfigured to use NATO ordnance like sidewinders?

No it won't!

No one wants a Nuclear War except Putin.

All USA and NATO can do is supply and assist but it has to be done out in the open and in clear view of the world.

It is a death of 1000 cuts for Putin but this takes time.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

I still think Ukraine winning this is a fools folly but IMO the longer it takes the more of the horrible truth will make it back to the Russian people. Most modern day governments (regimes) fall from within and I’m thinking that is still the end game here. Unfortunately the ordinary people who wanted none of this will pay the price. Stay the course and fight this war economically and strategically. Do not give that fucker a chance to blame anyone but himself for this shit. The sad truth will be the death of thousands paying the price to achieve this. The other fact is he is a rat, and as stated before, a cornered rat will do what ever it can to escape, although rats are brilliant creatures . God help us all if this turns nuclear. No one will win that war.

From what I've seen and expert opinion they have a very good chance with the millions of former soviet small arms flowing to them from NATO stocks. Most of their soldiers will be combat troops and women and old men will provide logistical support. Women and children are being evacuated to the west ASAP and the place is being set up for Armageddon and one Hell of a welcome for Vlads mighty army. With western help Ukraine will be like taking a country many times it's size, soon they will have literally millions of fanatical men under arms, many of them partisans creating havoc among the Russians logistics, their weakness. The west will supply them and they will not exhaust their resources, everyday they will grow stronger.

 

[BudmanTX]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501268895939837954

 

[Fogdog]

soo as long as a country doesnt say we are at war. they are a passive watcher even when they send weapons to kill the enemy?

The US and NATO are actively supporting Ukraine in its war for independence from Putin.

China is a passive watcher. I hope it is learning that it's better to stay on good terms with their customers. The age of appeasement is over, BTW.