cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
States’ rights is not a good thing. Under that swindle, you can have a notionally civilized nation make laws like in Florida and Texas. That needs to be brought under the Federal umbrella to disempower totalibertarians.
Fetterman or Oz. Who will win the senate seat?
- Thread starter Hotrod2
- Start date
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
You can't just make up your own definition of fascism. Trumpism is fascism. There is nothing in that statement to disagree with.
If you support Trump and his GOP MAGA party you are fascist. If you vote for people who support Trump, you are fascist. This is objectively true. If my saying this angers you, then the problem lies inside yourself.
Your opinion about Federman is yours to have and keep. I'm not going to argue with what you subjectively believe . I took issue with the statement you made earlier. Something about how speech impairment CAN indicate cognitive impairment. Yes, it can. Sometimes the two occur together.
This is what the experts on the strokes say about Federman and his performance during the debate:
www.statnews.com
Troubles with language “may affect how people perceive a person’s intelligence, but in many instances, the way a person sounds is not indicative of what their cognitive capability is,” said Adena Dacy, a speech language pathologist and the associate director of health care services at the American Speech-Language-Hearing Association. “Even if someone is having trouble retrieving words or names, a person’s intelligence can still be intact.”
It’s fair for people to ask whether someone can work in a role as demanding as a U.S. senator after he has a stroke, said Borna Bonakdarpour, an associate professor of neurology at Northwestern University’s Feinberg School of Medicine. But Bonakdarpour said he didn’t think language issues should be the barrier that precludes that, noting that a third to half of people who have strokes have language problems.
“I don’t think intellectually he has any issues,” Bonakdarpour said. “That’s a very important distinction.”
“Fetterman may not be good at delivering a speech” for now and might need to find alternate ways to communicate more effectively, Bonakdarpour said. “The question is, how will the public accept that?”
I don't know if you can read that objectively. You seem to have already made your mind up. This is one of the problems of conservatives. They don't/can't/won't see the world as it is. They only see the world the way they want it to be. The problem with fascists is not only do they refuse to see the world objectively, they become violent when it contradicts their world view. Like they did on Jan 6. Your kind are a threat to US Democracy.
If you support Trump and his GOP MAGA party you are fascist. If you vote for people who support Trump, you are fascist. This is objectively true. If my saying this angers you, then the problem lies inside yourself.
Your opinion about Federman is yours to have and keep. I'm not going to argue with what you subjectively believe . I took issue with the statement you made earlier. Something about how speech impairment CAN indicate cognitive impairment. Yes, it can. Sometimes the two occur together.
This is what the experts on the strokes say about Federman and his performance during the debate:
For experts on stroke, Fetterman-Oz debate is a teachable moment
“Even if someone is having trouble retrieving words or names, a person’s intelligence can still be intact,” an expert noted after the Fetterman-Oz debate.
www.statnews.com
Troubles with language “may affect how people perceive a person’s intelligence, but in many instances, the way a person sounds is not indicative of what their cognitive capability is,” said Adena Dacy, a speech language pathologist and the associate director of health care services at the American Speech-Language-Hearing Association. “Even if someone is having trouble retrieving words or names, a person’s intelligence can still be intact.”
It’s fair for people to ask whether someone can work in a role as demanding as a U.S. senator after he has a stroke, said Borna Bonakdarpour, an associate professor of neurology at Northwestern University’s Feinberg School of Medicine. But Bonakdarpour said he didn’t think language issues should be the barrier that precludes that, noting that a third to half of people who have strokes have language problems.
“I don’t think intellectually he has any issues,” Bonakdarpour said. “That’s a very important distinction.”
“Fetterman may not be good at delivering a speech” for now and might need to find alternate ways to communicate more effectively, Bonakdarpour said. “The question is, how will the public accept that?”
I don't know if you can read that objectively. You seem to have already made your mind up. This is one of the problems of conservatives. They don't/can't/won't see the world as it is. They only see the world the way they want it to be. The problem with fascists is not only do they refuse to see the world objectively, they become violent when it contradicts their world view. Like they did on Jan 6. Your kind are a threat to US Democracy.
Hotrod2
Well-Known Member
That is certainly a major disagreement you and I do have. As a conservative United States of America citizen. I believe the rights and government belong to the people. It has been my experience that socialist and Marxist generally prefer a central government controlling the people as opposed to the people controlling the government.
I believe constitutionally the federal government should only do and be responsible for a few things. One of which is negotiating treaties with foreign countries. Another one is to protect our borders.
The current Administration is doing a poor job of protecting our borders and is seen as weak with our allies and other foreign countries as well.
Hotrod2
Well-Known Member
When I think of fascism I think of Hitler and the Nazi party. Just because I'm a conservative and have conservative views and believe in my country and believe in a smaller government is not make me a fascist in any shape way or form. I'm in fact a nonconformist at the best. At the worst I may be someone you disagree with. I'm fine with that you are a human as am I and I will not make you or attempt to make you less than you are because of what you think. To do so would be beneath me. So if you call my belief fascism well I think you are trying to redefine the term. The bottom line is this thread was supposed to be about fetterman and Oz. And their senate race. Yet people continue to try and derail the whole thread and bring up Trump and the Republicans there are threads on this site where you can do that at. What you and others have done and are doing is called deflecting.You can't just make up your own definition of fascism. Trumpism is fascism. There is nothing in that statement to disagree with.
If you support Trump and his GOP MAGA party you are fascist. If you vote for people who support Trump, you are fascist. This is objectively true. If my saying this angers you, then the problem lies inside yourself.
Your opinion about Federman is yours to have and keep. I'm not going to argue with what you subjectively believe . I took issue with the statement you made earlier. Something about how speech impairment CAN indicate cognitive impairment. Yes, it can. Sometimes the two occur together.
This is what the experts on the strokes say about Federman and his performance during the debate:
For experts on stroke, Fetterman-Oz debate is a teachable moment
“Even if someone is having trouble retrieving words or names, a person’s intelligence can still be intact,” an expert noted after the Fetterman-Oz debate.
Troubles with language “may affect how people perceive a person’s intelligence, but in many instances, the way a person sounds is not indicative of what their cognitive capability is,” said Adena Dacy, a speech language pathologist and the associate director of health care services at the American Speech-Language-Hearing Association. “Even if someone is having trouble retrieving words or names, a person’s intelligence can still be intact.”
It’s fair for people to ask whether someone can work in a role as demanding as a U.S. senator after he has a stroke, said Borna Bonakdarpour, an associate professor of neurology at Northwestern University’s Feinberg School of Medicine. But Bonakdarpour said he didn’t think language issues should be the barrier that precludes that, noting that a third to half of people who have strokes have language problems.
“I don’t think intellectually he has any issues,” Bonakdarpour said. “That’s a very important distinction.”
“Fetterman may not be good at delivering a speech” for now and might need to find alternate ways to communicate more effectively, Bonakdarpour said. “The question is, how will the public accept that?”
I don't know if you can read that objectively. You seem to have already made your mind up. This is one of the problems of conservatives. They don't/can't/won't see the world as it is. They only see the world the way they want it to be. The problem with fascists is not only do they refuse to see the world objectively, they become violent when it contradicts their world view. Like they did on Jan 6. Your kind are a threat to US Democracy.
Kerowacked
Well-Known Member
You think he can write any more intelligibly than he speaks? Fetterman can’t serve in his present capacity so the question is if he wins, who will Wolf appoint.You can't just make up your own definition of fascism. Trumpism is fascism. There is nothing in that statement to disagree with.
If you support Trump and his GOP MAGA party you are fascist. If you vote for people who support Trump, you are fascist. This is objectively true. If my saying this angers you, then the problem lies inside yourself.
Your opinion about Federman is yours to have and keep. I'm not going to argue with what you subjectively believe . I took issue with the statement you made earlier. Something about how speech impairment CAN indicate cognitive impairment. Yes, it can. Sometimes the two occur together.
This is what the experts on the strokes say about Federman and his performance during the debate:
For experts on stroke, Fetterman-Oz debate is a teachable moment
“Even if someone is having trouble retrieving words or names, a person’s intelligence can still be intact,” an expert noted after the Fetterman-Oz debate.
Troubles with language “may affect how people perceive a person’s intelligence, but in many instances, the way a person sounds is not indicative of what their cognitive capability is,” said Adena Dacy, a speech language pathologist and the associate director of health care services at the American Speech-Language-Hearing Association. “Even if someone is having trouble retrieving words or names, a person’s intelligence can still be intact.”
It’s fair for people to ask whether someone can work in a role as demanding as a U.S. senator after he has a stroke, said Borna Bonakdarpour, an associate professor of neurology at Northwestern University’s Feinberg School of Medicine. But Bonakdarpour said he didn’t think language issues should be the barrier that precludes that, noting that a third to half of people who have strokes have language problems.
“I don’t think intellectually he has any issues,” Bonakdarpour said. “That’s a very important distinction.”
“Fetterman may not be good at delivering a speech” for now and might need to find alternate ways to communicate more effectively, Bonakdarpour said. “The question is, how will the public accept that?”
I don't know if you can read that objectively. You seem to have already made your mind up. This is one of the problems of conservatives. They don't/can't/won't see the world as it is. They only see the world the way they want it to be. The problem with fascists is not only do they refuse to see the world objectively, they become violent when it contradicts their world view. Like they did on Jan 6. Your kind are a threat to US Democracy.
Hotrod2
Well-Known Member
To be on point. The fetterman Oz debate can be found in its entirety on YouTube. Should anyone wish to have an intelligent conversation concerning the debate, I will be more than happy to engage you here.
If you wish to talk about the trumps and Republicans, do that on a thread dedicated to that purpose and if I wish to engage you on those subjects I will do that there. I'm going to roll me a fatty and drink me a cold beer and we'll be back later.
If you wish to talk about the trumps and Republicans, do that on a thread dedicated to that purpose and if I wish to engage you on those subjects I will do that there. I'm going to roll me a fatty and drink me a cold beer and we'll be back later.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
Libertarians believe in three impossible things.
Small government
States’ rights
Unregulated markets
These are corrosive to a republic, which is why libertarians are effectively vanguards of fascism.
Here is an example: payday lenders as a warning of what the above policies evolve into. Libertarians would be loath to attack these predators.
The Trumpiest Federal Appeals Court Did Something Truly Beyond the Pale
At least seven other federal courts have already considered and rejected this argument, and it’s easy to see why.
Socialists and Marxists are different. Marxism suffers from the same problem as libertarianism: utopian thought, specifically that if you satisfy certain preconditions, people will play team, and the system will work. This is where Ayn and Friedrich both fail, from opposite directions of approach, and the outcome is the same, fascism as the idealist system collapses. “Communism” is fascism with a Marxist ideological veneer.
Socialism is unproven on a national scale. It is possibly prone to the same problem. If the means of production are collectivized, who minds the collective and holds the predators at bay? Quis custodiet custodes?
Imo the sweet spot is social democracy, between the robber barons of the hard right and the false left.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
There is also the peculiar phenomenon of the de facto alliance of libertarians of the Rand Paul sort with dominionists, who want the values of “Christian nationalism” made policy. The dominionists are right-extreme fascists of a particularly virulent sort, whose concepts of governance are at least as illiberal as those of the full-blown theocracies present in the Islamic world: Saudi Arabia, Iran, the Taliban and ISIS. They are as fascist as it gets, and the US’s politicized evangelicals want a piece of that. Both camps are pushing the culture war.
Why libertarians are working hand-in-glove with the worst enemies of self-determination the Western world can muster
is a mystery, and a warning.
Why libertarians are working hand-in-glove with the worst enemies of self-determination the Western world can muster
is a mystery, and a warning.
PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
Even once insert context, Joe's disingenuous assertion that he never tried to reduce SS, is either a bold face lie or Joe just can't remember his former positions on issues. Your "fact check" places the fact that his position on the issues have changed over the years, as "context".It looks pretty bad once you strip it of context.
Sanders’ misleading Social Security attack on Biden
Leading up to the primary in Florida, with its many retirees, Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., is pressing Joe Biden hard onwww.politifact.com
PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
LOL, states' rights is what protects the things which you hold dear when the GOP is in the white house.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
The real liar was Bernie. He made a mountain of a molehill. Biden had the decency to admit and retract, something inconvenient to your narrative.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
No.
PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
He only retracted after Bernie gave him 4 chances to do so, and it was a half-retraction at best.
Yes.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
No.
See other thread for how illiberal the scoundrels’ refuge of states’ rights is in reality.
PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
why even vote on prop 1 then?
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
Because it obstructs the fascists. They are here, too. Witness accidentally McCarthy.
Republicans Double Down on Obliterating Abortion Rights in “Commitment to America” Agenda
The House officially vowed to protect “the lives of unborn children,” with 166 members already cosponsoring a bill that makes the case for “life at conception.”
PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
They don't want to come here, by in large. In fact there is something of an exodus among California conservatives:
California conservatives leaving the state for 'redder pastures'
The Volkswagen SUV whizzed past the Texas state line, a U-Haul trailer in tow, as it made its way toward Amarillo.
www.latimes.com
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
That propagates a classic dishonesty. Maga fascists are not conservatives, just as Stalinists never were Marxists.They don't want to come here, by in large. In fact there is something of an exodus among California conservatives:
California conservatives leaving the state for 'redder pastures'
The Volkswagen SUV whizzed past the Texas state line, a U-Haul trailer in tow, as it made its way toward Amarillo.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
What makes you think he can't write intelligibly?
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
There are conservatives who aren't fascist. But if you support a GOP MAGA candidate, you are supporting fascism. Do you not understand what fascism is? Yes, Nazis were fascist but all fascists are not Nazis.
Key attributes of fascism:
- Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
- Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
- Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
- Supremacy of the Military
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
- Rampant Sexism
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.
- Controlled Mass Media
Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
- Obsession with National Security
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
- Religion and Government are Intertwined
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.
- Corporate Power is Protected
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
- Labor Power is Suppressed
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed .
- Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.
- Obsession with Crime and Punishment
Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
- Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
- Fraudulent Elections
Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
Not included in that list are celebration of violence, including murder and belief in false conspiracies to justify grievances, such as Trump's big lie. You'll find plenty of disagreement among academics on whether or not Trump is fascist. His and his follower's actions and rhetoric certainly embrace the key characteristics laid out above. There is no doubt, however that Jan 6 was an attack launched by Trump and his MAGA GOP on our democracy. It was an attempt to overthrow an election that Trump lost and illegally put him back into power. After Jan 6, support for Trump and his MAGA movement is a clear and bright dividing line between MAGA Republicans and true Americans who uphold our democratic institutions whether they be liberal or conservative. OZ is a MAGA Republican. He's one of Trump's men. I do not understand how anybody could vote for a person who would support Trump after all that has taken place.