Why is the PH of my mixed Canna Coco nutrients going up?

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
Coco/pearlite ready to put in a pot and go. Im all with ya on that, just switched to a one part maxi. For context, I started out thinking I had to go by everything mj coco says to do to quickly find that my own feed through GH is enough. And now possibly with pre made coco?

idk what else to call it. What are your thoughs on growing in unbuffered coco? That isn’t a gimmick too right? Genuinely wondering.
I don't consider Maxi to be complete, so not surprised you need calmag. I've used all kinds of coco over the years and have often reused my coco, which I will wash throughly and usually buffer with a 50% strength nute solution. I prefer band of Canna Coco, which if pretty much good to go out of the bag.
 

medidedicated

Well-Known Member
I don't consider Maxi to be complete, so not surprised you need calmag. I've used all kinds of coco over the years and have often reused my coco, which I will wash throughly and usually buffer with a 50% strength nute solution. I prefer band of Canna Coco, which if pretty much good to go out of the bag.
I do not use any calmag with flora trio or ever and soon will probably be able to say the same with maxi like many around here like to flex with over a cabinet full. What else does it need? I am curious if I can be fine with canna coco and a one part. Yes some overlap feeds into flower for a week or two but aside from that.

edit my plants never needed calmg. I got lockout with RO water amd flora trio and calmag. Mj coco says you must do it. False.
 

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
What is "pre made coco"?
Presuming this is an actual inquiry and not another of your rhetorical questions I'll put forth my answer to this.

My first attempt with coco about 20 years ago failed because I was using cheap coco that came in an unwashed compressed brick. I had no idea I was supposed to flush it to remove salts before use so that attempt went to shit.

Last year I bought a big bag of Canna coco I have yet to use but will do a little side-by-side with it against the promix and see how it fares.

Unlike ProMix HP there doesn't seem to be any added sources of Ca in it unlike HP which has both calcitic and dolomitic lime added to offset the natural acidity of peat plus adds that essential element and more.

CannaCoco01.JPG

:peace:
 

medidedicated

Well-Known Member
Presuming this is an actual inquiry and not another of your rhetorical questions I'll put forth my answer to this.

My first attempt with coco about 20 years ago failed because I was using cheap coco that came in an unwashed compressed brick. I had no idea I was supposed to flush it to remove salts before use so that attempt went to shit.

Last year I bought a big bag of Canna coco I have yet to use but will do a little side-by-side with it against the promix and see how it fares.

Unlike ProMix HP there doesn't seem to be any added sources of Ca in it unlike HP which has both calcitic and dolomitic lime added to offset the natural acidity of peat plus adds that essential element and more.

View attachment 5264635

:peace:
Yea I was enhanced in perception to see one say what I still do not see said often, that coco was not the same 15-20 years ago. I prepare my coco from brick, cannot find anything cheaper to reward my willingness to buffer and prepare, they all seem to claim buffered and rinsed.

I still rinse because it has tons of dust no matter how new it is. Heck, what doesn’t turn to dust being compressed so tight. Aside from that I feel like I could benefit just going with canna coco but I am under the impression you need to supplement calmg with any coco that wasn’t charged throroughly/recently.
 

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
Presuming this is an actual inquiry and not another of your rhetorical questions I'll put forth my answer to this.

My first attempt with coco about 20 years ago failed because I was using cheap coco that came in an unwashed compressed brick. I had no idea I was supposed to flush it to remove salts before use so that attempt went to shit.

Last year I bought a big bag of Canna coco I have yet to use but will do a little side-by-side with it against the promix and see how it fares.

Unlike ProMix HP there doesn't seem to be any added sources of Ca in it unlike HP which has both calcitic and dolomitic lime added to offset the natural acidity of peat plus adds that essential element and more.

View attachment 5264635

:peace:
I guess "pre made" = prebuffered, got it. Yes, the bricks need to be rinsed pretty throughly. Also the bricks often have a more coarse texture compared to the Canna Coco bags. I consider growing in coco vs peat to be two completely different animals, with coco being basically a hydroponic medium and peat being similar to soil. Each is obviously going to need a different feed style. I haven't had any issues with needing to add calmag with coco when using base nutes which include some form of CalNit and ample mag. Something like Jacks 321, Mastercrop, or Athena work great with coco.
 

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
I do not use any calmag with flora trio or ever and soon will probably be able to say the same with maxi like many around here like to flex with over a cabinet full. What else does it need? I am curious if I can be fine with canna coco and a one part. Yes some overlap feeds into flower for a week or two but aside from that.

edit my plants never needed calmg. I got lockout with RO water amd flora trio and calmag. Mj coco says you must do it. False.
I've always liked the idea of a one-part, but frankly have never found one that works well. I personally avoid GH products (and anything else owned by Hawthorne) out of principle, although I do admittedly still have an old bottle of GH ph down..
 

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
The only work involved is in setting up the auto watering system. After that, it's just refilling a res and dumping runoff once a week.
True but just another hassle with pumps/timers/power to fail, feed tubes to slip out of place or plug and screw things up. I prefer the KISS principle whenever possible.
 

medidedicated

Well-Known Member
As often as I had those idgaf moments for the better I wonder if I can try that next time and save some work. But then again if you reuse your coco, you are putting that work in anyway… Those can be the runs I don’t reuse.. But like one just said, the peat like dust in dry brick coco can throw off the more preferred aspects of coarse coco.

I would need to know the mfg did not just do a shit job version of what I do not mind doing real quick. Or I will just consider the payment a convenience fee and treat it like that. Not every one recycles. I do agree with nutes trashed outside, you know.

recycling coco is like twice as much work IMO.
 

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
True but just another hassle with pumps/timers/power to fail, feed tubes to slip out of place or plug and screw things up. I prefer the KISS principle whenever possible.
I would tend to agree with you, except that my plants grow better this way.
 

medidedicated

Well-Known Member
I've always liked the idea of a one-part, but frankly have never found one that works well. I personally avoid GH products (and anything else owned by Hawthorne) out of principle, although I do admittedly still have an old bottle of GH ph down..
is it true Gh is owned by santo now? is that what you mean? What do you use, the brands you mentioned?
 

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
As often as I had those idgaf moments for the better I wonder if I can try that next time and save some work. But then again if you reuse your coco, you are putting that work in anyway… Those can be the runs I don’t reuse.. But like one just said, the peat like dust in dry brick coco can throw off the more preferred aspects of coarse coco.

I would need to know the mfg did not just do a shit job version of what I do not mind doing real quick. Or I will just consider the payment a convenience fee and treat it like that. Not every one recycles. I do agree with nutes trashed outside, you know.

recycling coco is like twice as much work IMO.
I reuse my HP but add 50% fresh to already used stuff with no flushing. I don't feed too much and just give water the last couple weeks usually so my fan leaves are going yellow telling me the plant isn't getting much in the way of nutes from the pot anymore and is stealing what it needs from the leaves. Just a little epsom salts and K the last few waterings to boost bud and resin production.

None gets wasted as we have 3 compost heaps and lots of garden space to dispose of any used medium so it gets recycled.

Coco also costs at least twice as much as the HP and the closest place I can get it is a 2 hour drive away. The HP is at every store around me that sells garden supplies. Bought 8 - 107L bales last spring so all stocked up for while tho the wife stole 4 for her greenhouse peppers. :)

:peace:
 

PadawanWarrior

Well-Known Member
I know that I've had issues in the past with pure water that's being aerated with an air pump/stone rising ph over time. The above theory would somewhat explain this.

As far as the OP's issue, I've experienced it as well, and I always just kind of assumed that the acids in the nute solution basically got all used up converting carbonates, which causes ph to drift back up. I'm obviously no water expert either, but I can't really find any other explanation which makes any sense.
This is kinda cool.
 

medidedicated

Well-Known Member
No. GH is owned by Hawthorne, who is a subsidiary of Scotts -- the primary North American distributor of Monsanto's Round Up. So, they are a different company, but part of the same evil.

Interesting, I saw a lot of people give good reviews. I already have it and am trying it out next time. I heard Flora trio is better for auto feed lines with salt build up. Is jacks powdered any better or worse for that?
 

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
Interesting, I saw a lot of people give good reviews. I already have it and am trying it out next time. I heard Flora trio is better for auto feed lines with salt build up. Is jacks powdered any better or worse for that?
I ran Jacks with drip emitters, and never had any issues with clogged lines. I replace my emitters every couple of grow cycles, they are cheap enough.
 

medidedicated

Well-Known Member
@PJ Diaz
To tell you the truth, for me, it doesn’t have to be one part, just not fluids so I get more for my money and are easier to work with, I hate the syringes and cups and sirynges either being small amd fit in the bottle or too big but convinient. Weighing powder in one cup is pretty cool.
 

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
@PJ Diaz
To tell you the truth, for me, it doesn’t have to be one part, just not fluids so I get more for my money and are easier to work with, I hate the syringes and cups and sirynges either being small amd fit in the bottle or too big but convinient. Weighing powder in one cup is pretty cool.
Reach out to Athena on Instagram and ask for a sample. They sent me around $600 of their powder line for free, they even covered shipping. I'm not sure that I would buy their product or not, as it's very expensive, but I do like it better than Jacks. This "sample" will last me quite a while.
 

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
No. GH is owned by Hawthorne, who is a subsidiary of Scotts -- the primary North American distributor of Monsanto's Round Up. So, they are a different company, but part of the same evil.

MonSatan supplied the cash to Scotts to buy GH, Gavita and a bunch of other companies involved in pot/plant growing. Now Bayer owns MonSatan so the whole Bayer/MonSatan/Scotts/Hawthorne/Roots etc companies are all under the same corporate umbrella and should be shunned by aware growers. Takes a little investigation to find out what all companies have been bought out by them but they tend to brand products with one of those names so just read the labels before you plunk down your money.

GH in particular NEVER supported pot growers and still doesn't. Only AN had the balls from their start to announce they made their nutes specifically for growing pot and they got trolled everywhere by people paid by the other companies too chicken shit to admit that pot growers were their biggest market. For that alone I would recommend AN over any of the others. Plus it's Canadian in origin and made in the states too. Not worrying about pH is just a big bonus.

GH has always and still sources it's base minerals from the cheapest bidders over the kind of quality control AN uses for it's nutes. Can you say China? I knew you could. :D

:peace:
 

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
MonSatan supplied the cash to Scotts to buy GH, Gavita and a bunch of other companies involved in pot/plant growing. Now Bayer owns MonSatan so the whole Bayer/MonSatan/Scotts/Hawthorne/Roots etc companies are all under the same corporate umbrella and should be shunned by aware growers. Takes a little investigation to find out what all companies have been bought out by them but they tend to brand products with one of those names so just read the labels before you plunk down your money.

GH in particular NEVER supported pot growers and still doesn't. Only AN had the balls from their start to announce they made their nutes specifically for growing pot and they got trolled everywhere by people paid by the other companies too chicken shit to admit that pot growers were their biggest market. For that alone I would recommend AN over any of the others. Plus it's Canadian in origin and made in the states too. Not worrying about pH is just a big bonus.

GH has always and still sources it's base minerals from the cheapest bidders over the kind of quality control AN uses for it's nutes. Can you say China? I knew you could. :D

:peace:
Yeah, they also own Botanicare too. I used to really like their Liquid Karma back in the day. Now a days I've replaced LK with Kelp and Fulvic Acid.
 

medidedicated

Well-Known Member
Reach out to Athena on Instagram and ask for a sample. They sent me around $600 of their powder line for free, they even covered shipping. I'm not sure that I would buy their product or not, as it's very expensive, but I do like it better than Jacks. This "sample" will last me quite a while.
Yea a big market exploding, everyone is eager to find someone to sponsor, could only dream of working with weed for a living. Or even be sponsored in general in a fully legal market as a hobby grower/content creator.
 
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