my babies have taken a turn for the worst...

[polypterus]

hey this is my first post and of course its to beg for some advice! i have been a lurker on this forum and learned a ton. I am doing my first indoor grow and all was going great until two days ago. Ok for background info the seeds are dutch passion feminized, not sure of the variety. I'm using the SH bubbleponics system with Dual Spectrum II lights. this is a super stealth closet grow. Here is a pic of the set up:

I put then seeds in the rockwool and they sprouted june 30. So they are 11 days old today. I have only used RO water and i am using the botanicare organic nutrients- pro blend grow and liquid karma. I have been dosing the water as it says on the package. The plants were growing amazingly fast until about two days ago. I started to see some yellowing and tiny brown spots on the tips of the bottom leaves. I thought the prob might be a lack of nutrients, as i had not added any since they sprouted, so I changed out some water and added more nute. that was yesterday and today they look even worse. i have read everything i could find to diagnose the problem but I still am not sure. I'm guessing either magnesuim def. or nute burn??? Here are pictures from this morning, as you can see the plants were still looking pretty decent, some bad leaves but mostly healthy looking.

some close ups of prob areas:

Ok i was out all day and when I got home I noticed the girls were looking bad! 5 out of 6 have droopy leaves now and the yellowing is spreading. its mainly on lower leaves and it starts at the tip. here are some pics i just took:

So tonight I completely emptied the res and wiped it out, added new clean RO water (so there are no nutes at all right now), cleaned out the pump and misted the leaves since they seem so dry and crispy. I moved the lights away so the water wouldn't burn them. Right now i'm in limbo, not sure what to do from here? I also noticed alot of brown gunk on everything, including the roots. They seem strong and healthy though, not rotten. Can anyone shine some light on this for me? I love my girls i can't let them die!

 

[polypterus]

ok here is an update on the situation- i got a better ph test kit and found out my ph is now 7.5?? so i'm working on getting it down now. last time i checked it was 5.0! i don't know why it would fluctuate so much? also the worst off plant now appears to be dying and even the biggest healthiest one is getting brown spots. they are at the base of the leaf though, not the tip. I added 1/4 strength of the nute (no karma) on the advice of a very helpful mod on here. any one know what could be causing this- is it the ph issue? if so how do you stabilize it? is there any hope for my girls??

 

[mogie]

With a clean unit, r/o should be as close to 7.0 and 0 ppm as you can get.
There are two reasons that the pH of your Reverse-Osmosis water would not be neutral:

1) Too high-- likely a calcium buildup in the filter, machine needs cleaning or replacement filters.

2) Too low-- dissolved carbon dioxide will lower the pH. It has almost no buffering capacity, meaning one tiny drop of pH up will put it back into place.

Did you start by adding the nutes at full strength? Start at 1/4 recommended strength.

 

[polypterus]

yes, i started full strength following the instructions on the bottle. i thought that because they were organic i didn't need to build up slowly, now i know! I should have specified that the RO water is store bought. next time i buy a bottle i will check the ph before i use it. OK i understand the concept now- pure water has no buffering capacity. thats why the tiny amounts of ph up and down i used jumped the ph from 5 to 7.5 then back to 6. what can i do to correct the problem tho? i know ph will slowly change on its own, so how can i adjust it without it shooting up and down? also, ph is the cause of my plant woes right? but what do you think the actual issue is, nute burn, mag def, or something else? also, is there anything i can do to save my one dying plant and prevent the rest from following it? should i add epsom salt to the water?

 

[Tokecrazy]

What are you using to PH the water with?What kind of test kit you have?The ro water ,is it distilled from the store ?The ro water dosent have anything in it,So you have to use some cal-mag plus along with your nutrs.But for now plain water and cal-mag plus.Do you know if you have hard water?Get some PH up & PH down from the hydro store or a fish store.Whats your ventilation like?Just asking so to help fine the problem. Keep us posted. PEACE

 

[polypterus]

thanks to you guys for all your help! i'm using the organic ph up and down that came with my stealth hydro kit. both are white powders. The RO water is bottled and store bought. yes i have hard water that goes through a softener thats why i use ro. i have no cal-mag can i ue epsom salts instead? I have a test strip kit that came w/ the hydro kit but it sucks so im using two dif liquid kits now and they are both reading the same. my venting is good i have a fan and i keep the closet doors open as much as i can. and even closed its not air tight.

 

[saine420]

I would say it looks like too much nutes for those babies.. Id definitely keep water ph at 5.6 -5.8 as close as possible. I have to add ph lower almost everyday to my reservoir. I had a problem like this early on and fixed well. flush well and cut nutes.. build up slowly

 

[kindprincess]

aha!!!

one pic clearly shows the culprit of the problem; water spots. water spots make hot spots, spots that focus beams of light to the point of burning.

that's not nute burn, it's light burn.

kp

 

[saine420]

I agree with the water spots as well but there is another problem. note the upper leaves no burn..

 

[kindprincess]

I agree with the water spots as well but there is another problem. note the upper leaves no burn..

not yet....

 

[polypterus]

oh i might have forgotten to mention that i misted them w/ epsom salt/water last night while i was cleaning everything out last night. it looks really bright but i kept the lights away from them until they were dry. that was the first time i ever misted them and they were already having this problem at this point. they were doing really well; this is a pretty sudden problem. im going to get some new pictures in the am under more natural light. how long should i wait to flush out the res again?

 

[kindprincess]

you don't need to flush, look at your new growth, all purdy....

there is no need to mist in hydro. it's pointless, and has the same effect as over watering. that's where your droop comes from.

the "sudden problem" is hot spots. if you peruse your pix, you can clearly see the burnt spots on the leaves. they are round and spattered, just like water droplets.

i've had the same burns from neeming, with lights three feet away. raising the lights doesn't mean they wont' burn.

kp

 

[polypterus]

yeah that all makes sense except that the spots were there before i ever misted them. and there are no burn spots on any of the top most leaves. how often do you think i should empty and refill my res, every week? and when do i start increasing nute from 1/4 strength? is there any point to using the liquid karma? it really seemed to gunk everything up. oh and can i use epsom salt in the water instead of cal-mag?

 

[kindprincess]

up your nutes to 1-1-1 (3 part, right?) and don't mist anymore. don't foliar spray with the lights on.

and, don't worry about the epsom salts; they are used to add magnesium, and not calcium.

kp

 

[polypterus]

well, i have pure blend grow, thats all i have added up to now. do i need to add anything else? well besides the cal-mag, i'm ordering that today. i guess the third part would be liquid karma, which im hesitant to use because of the mess it made last time. so, i have added the pro grow at 1/4 the dose on the bottle. do i wait until next time i drain to add it again, at 1/2 strength? or do i add another 1/4 to the existing mix to bring it up to half sooner? if so when? sorry for the stupid questions, i really appreciate the info tho!

 

[kindprincess]

three part is a nute formula that is made from combining different amounts of each part.

the three parts are:

micro- micro nutrient formula
grow- grow formula, higher in n
bloom- bloom formula, higher in p and k

combining these gives you different npk values. most hydro nutrient companies have mixing directions on the bottles. if you could please, give a link to the product you are using, and i'll find out the details.

kp

 

[polypterus]

kp- thanks for your helpful advice! i just got my three new bottles of nutrients, pb grow, pb bloom, and cal-mag plus. a dosing chart was also included. my plants are looking great now, even the "dying" plant has bounced back. im going to do a water change out today or tomorrow, should i now use the nutes at 1/2 strength this time instead of 1/4? the only problem that i have is that my ph is shooting up at night, from 5.8 when i go to bed, up to 8 this morning! i have been using ph down constantly.

 

[kindprincess]

kp- thanks for your helpful advice! i just got my three new bottles of nutrients, pb grow, pb bloom, and cal-mag plus. a dosing chart was also included. my plants are looking great now, even the "dying" plant has bounced back. im going to do a water change out today or tomorrow, should i now use the nutes at 1/2 strength this time instead of 1/4? the only problem that i have is that my ph is shooting up at night, from 5.8 when i go to bed, up to 8 this morning! i have been using ph down constantly.

what is the ph of your water before nutes and ph down?

 

[babygro]

aha!!!

one pic clearly shows the culprit of the problem; water spots. water spots make hot spots, spots that focus beams of light to the point of burning.

that's not nute burn, it's light burn.

kp

Come off it kp, that damage has nothing to do with water/light burn - it's patently obvious it's Mg deficiency. Probably being caused by the person using 100% RO water which contains no Mg or Calcium in it - his feeds haven't been putting enough Mg into the reservoir.

The solution isn't to increase the feeds, it's to mix his RO water with some plain tap water.

The reason his Ph is fluctuating so wildly is because he's using pure RO water which has no ph buffering capabilities at all. the solution is as I've already said, mix the RO with tap water and then add nutrients and THEN ph and EC the nutrient feed to the correct levels.

 

[polypterus]

ok i got new RO water today and did a 100% water change. i ph tested the RO water and it was 6.8. I then added it to the res and put in 1/2 strength of botanicare pro grow and 1/2 strength cal-mag plus. babygro- i would like to use my tap water but it is really terrible quality. That is why i have to use the RO water. at first i didn't have the cal-mag plus, which is an ro water supplement, so i totally agree it must have been a mag problem? i just checked the ph and it is 6.1. seems to be holding steady so far! ill keep ya'll posted you have been great help, thanks!