Gypsy's Picture Depot
- Thread starter GypsyBush
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bigjesse1922
Well-Known Member
What you said was that it supports your line of thinking. I am just in disagreement and believe it supports mine...IT"S ALL tied to the photoperiod.. I never said it wasn't
It almost feels like you are jumping into the middle of the conversation...
I never said these things..
You said it supported your theory of build up and decay...
I state it supports my theory of relatively low levels of hormone that suddenly spike and continue to do so throughout flower up to harvest. I believe you are assuming that a plant would have higher levels of hormone from 6 hours of darkness as opposed to 4, and thus the process will be quicker. I am just not sure what this is based on.
bigjesse1922
Well-Known Member
I am no expert.
Its fun to debate with you though.
All I can go off of it what I have learned, right or wrong...
You have taught me a lot though, and I wasn't looking at it in the context of branching either so that brings things into perspective.
MBlaze has come as close as I can tell to perfecting what he does so I can argue if it works like that and that's why then hey, maybe I am wrong...
All I know is...when I feed my plants Open Sesame a week prior to 12/12, give them 24 hours of darkness....I have balls or pistils within 5 days max...that's a pretty big explosion IMO.
But you know what...it was fun anyway ya look at it
Its fun to debate with you though.
All I can go off of it what I have learned, right or wrong...
You have taught me a lot though, and I wasn't looking at it in the context of branching either so that brings things into perspective.
MBlaze has come as close as I can tell to perfecting what he does so I can argue if it works like that and that's why then hey, maybe I am wrong...
All I know is...when I feed my plants Open Sesame a week prior to 12/12, give them 24 hours of darkness....I have balls or pistils within 5 days max...that's a pretty big explosion IMO.
But you know what...it was fun anyway ya look at it
bigjesse1922
Well-Known Member
Haha no hard feelings here. I am still learning.Am I crazy Jesse...?
That is really how I understand things... barrel and all...
I'd love to be shown otherwise... but I haven't...
Not that it really matters...
ALL of our plants will grow in 18/6 and flower in 12/12, right...
Lol yeah mine will go 18/6 to 12/12.
You ever seen Dillweed's thread? He has 2k of HPS jammed in a 77"x77"x77" tent and almost got 2 lbs from 15 plants last time. Not that is record breaking shit I dunno, just some background. He swears by 10/14 for the last 2-3 weeks of flower.
GypsyBush
Well-Known Member
maybe it supports both...
But you said it yourself... it talks about build up...
Originally Posted by bigjesse1922
Are we reading the same thing??? It talks about how it bulds up based up PHOTOPERIODICAL timelines, IE, switching to 12/12!!
Exactly.. I believe that the reason it doens't flower even though the hormone is present..
is that the light cause decay of the hormone levels, thus preventing them from flowering...
but as soon as the rate of decay is lesser than the build up... Ie 12/12.. it will start accumulating (the transition period)... and when the barrel finally overflows... the plant is in full flower and will remain that way as long as the build up is greater than the rate of decay...
If we have a plant in full flower 12/12.. and we set her in 24/0.. the level will slowly decay until the plant is not longer in flower but back in full veg... a long transition mind you...
I actually have a plant right now...
Remember that freak I trimmed way too much...
I have finished her last month of flower in the veg room... she is just now starting to stop making bud and hasn;t even started to veg yet... a full month 24/0...
I believe it is a transition.. and that that transition can be manipulated to a degree with you beg schedule...
And I will use my theoretical reason for what I think MBlaze does...
I am not even sure he actually like stretch...
I state it supports my theory of relatively low levels of hormone that suddenly spike and continue to do so throughout flower up to harvest. I believe you are assuming that a plant would have higher levels of hormone from 6 hours of darkness as opposed to 4, and thus the process will be quicker. I am just not sure what this is based on.[/QUOTE]
bigjesse1922
Well-Known Member
I will stop responding and let you catch up
I'm such an ass huh? We would probably hate each other in person, or get a long splindly. Feast or famine. Boon or bust.
Curse or Courtesy. LOL man am I high. Ihave been takin bong hits this whole "debate" GB.
I'm such an ass huh? We would probably hate each other in person, or get a long splindly. Feast or famine. Boon or bust.
Curse or Courtesy. LOL man am I high. Ihave been takin bong hits this whole "debate" GB.
GypsyBush
Well-Known Member
I have not seen it.. but uh Jesse...
With 2k Al gets 2pounds a month...
and blaze and I do about the same with 2400w...
BUt I will say this...
Why would he swear by the 10/14?
Maybe they flower " a little harder"..in the end there... less light more hormones...??
Maybe?
So why not do that the whole grow???
cause the loss of light also brings loss of production...
This is when those discussions of plane "ITO" start...
What if we gave (oh what is it? ) 17.3 hours of daylight followed by 12 of dark.. and go on util in 7 days you gave the plants 40% more light... and maitained flowering with the 12 hours of dark...
and so on..
Have you read about that?
bigjesse1922
Well-Known Member
Ok I lied.
I have to say this is logical.
But so to me is what I think. Where does this idea of decay come from? I have always read and heard it talked of as an ineffectiveness. Just curious. I have never come across it before.
bigjesse1922
Well-Known Member
Yeah I have. A while ago though, back before I even ran into you. At the time it seemed way too damn complicated for me lol.I have not seen it.. but uh Jesse...
With 2k Al gets 2pounds a month...
and blaze and I do about the same with 2400w...
BUt I will say this...
Why would he swear by the 10/14?
Maybe they flower " a little harder"..in the end there... less light more hormones...??
Maybe?
So why not do that the whole grow???
cause the loss of light also brings loss of production...
This is when those discussions of plane "ITO" start...
What if we gave (oh what is it? ) 17.3 hours of daylight followed by 12 of dark.. and go on util in 7 days you gave the plants 40% more light... and maitained flowering with the 12 hours of dark...
and so on..
Have you read about that?
I also thought well hey, if this is really badass, why don't I hear about everyone else doin it??
Yeah and Dill's grow...he grows in soil and no perpetual or training or anything. Just a 3 part nutes system. He is just a cool guy too.
And he doesn't care about production. He thinks it convinces the plants they are about to start dying and they need to protect themselves with resin.
An 8th! Shit you could smoke me under the table! I have put away a gram, maybe!
GypsyBush
Well-Known Member
Although it's not really a hormone the scientific adopted it as a nickname because of it's similarities in behavior...
NO ONE really understands the FLORIGEN...
but this might help shed some light...
My understanding of it comes from talking to farmers and floriculturists...
here is what WKI had to say about FLORIGEN...
NO ONE really understands the FLORIGEN...
but this might help shed some light...
My understanding of it comes from talking to farmers and floriculturists...
here is what WKI had to say about FLORIGEN...
WIKIPEDIA.COM said:Florigen
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Florigen (or flowering hormone) is the term used to describe the hypothesized hormone-like molecules responsible for controlling and/or triggering flowering in plants. Florigen is produced in the leaves and acts in the shoot apical meristem of buds and growing tips. It is known to be graft-transmissible and even functions between species. However despite having been sought since the 1930s, the exact nature of florigen is still a mystery.
Contents
[hide]
[edit] Mechanism
Central to the hunt for florigen is an understanding of how plants use seasonal changes in day length to mediate flowering, a mechanism known as photoperiodism. Plants which exhibit photoperiodism may be either 'short day' or 'long day' plants, which in order to flower require short days or long days respectively. Although plants in fact determine day length from night length.[1]
The current model suggests the involvement of multiple different factors. Research into florigen is predominately centred around the model organism and long day plant, Arabidopsis thaliana. Whilst much of the florigen pathways appear to be well conserved in other studied species, variations do exist.[2] The mechanism may be broken down into three stages: photoperiod-regulated Initiation, signal Translocation via the phloem, and induction of Flowering at the shoot apical meristem.
[edit] Initiation
In Arabidopsis, the signal is initiated by the production of messenger RNA (mRNA) coding a transcription factor called CONSTANS (CO). CO mRNA is produced approximately 12 hours after dawn, a cycle regulated by the plant's biological clock.[3] This mRNA is then translated into CO protein. However CO protein is stable only in light, so levels stay low throughout short days and are only able to peak at dusk during long days when there is still a little light.[4][5] CO protein promotes transcription of another gene called Flowering Locus T (FT). By this mechanism, CO protein may only reach levels capable of promoting FT transcription when exposed to long days. Hence the transmission of florigen, and so the induction of flowering, relies on a comparison between the plant's perception of day/night and its own internal biological clock.[2]
[edit] Translocation
The FT protein resulting from the short period of CO transcription factor activity is then transported via the phloem to the shoot apical meristem.[6]
[edit] Flowering
At the shoot apical meristem the FT protein is thought to interact with another transcription factor, FD protein, to activate floral identity genes, thus inducing flowering.[7][8] Specifically, arrival of FT at the shoot apical meristem and formation of this FT/FD heterodimer is followed by the increased expression of: SUPPRESSOR OF OVEREXPRESSION OF CONSTANS 1 (SOC1),[9] LEAFY (LFY),[10] APETALA 1 (AP1),[7] SEPALLATA 3 (SEP3) and FRUITFUL (FUL).[11]
[edit] Research history
Please help improve this section by expanding it. Further information might be found on the talk page. (April 2009) Florigen was first described by Russian plant physiologist Mikhail Chailakhyan in 1937, who demonstrated that floral induction can be transmitted through a graft from an induced plant to one that has not been induced to flower.[12] Anton Lang showed that several long-day plants and biennials could be made to flower by treatment with gibberellin, when grown under a non-flower-inducing (or non-inducing) photoperiod. This led to the suggestion that florigen may be made up of two classes of flowering hormones: Gibberellins and Anthesins.[13] It was later postulated that during non-inducing photoperiods, long-day plants produce anthesin, but no gibberellin while short-day plants produce gibberellin but no anthesin.[12] However, these findings did not account for the fact that short-day plants grown under non-inducing conditions (thus producing gibberellin) will not cause flowering of grafted long-day plants that are also under noninductive conditions (thus producing anthesin).
Problems with isolating florigen and the inconsistent results acquired led to the suggestion that florigen does not exist; rather, a particular ratio of other hormones must be achieved for the plant to flower.[14][15] However more recent findings indicate that florigen does exist and is produced, or at least activated, in the leaves of the plant and that this signal is then transported via the phloem to the growing tip at the shoot apical meristem where the signal acts by inducing flowering.
[edit] References
- ^ Garner W.W., Allard H.A. (1920). "Effect of the relative length of day and night and other factors of the environment on growth and reproduction in plants". Journal of Agricultural Research 18: 553–606. doi:10.1175/1520-0493(1920)48<415b:EOTRLO>2.0.CO;2.
- ^ a b Turck, F., Fornara, F., Coupland, G. (200
. "Regulation and Identity of Florigen: FLOWERING LOCUS T Moves Centre Stage". Annual Review of Plant Biology 59: 573–594. doi:10.1146/annurev.arplant.59.032607.092755.
- ^ Mizoguchi, T., Wright, L., Fujiwara, S., Cremer, F., Lee, K., et al. (2005). "Distinct roles of GIGANTEA in promoting flowering and regulating circadian rhythms in Arabidopsis". Plant Cell 17: 2255–2270. doi:10.1105/tpc.105.033464.
- ^ Yanovsky, M.J., Kay, S.A. (2002). "Molecular basis of seasonal time measurement in Arabidopsis". Nature 419: 308–312. doi:10.1038/nature00996.
- ^ Valverde, F., Mouradov, A., Soppe, W., Ravenscroft, D., Samach, A., Coupland, G. (2004). "Photoreceptor regulation of CONSTANS protein in photoperiodic flowering". Science 303: 1003–1006. doi:10.1126/science.1091761.
- ^ Corbesier, L., Vincent, C., Jang, S., Fornara, F., Fan, Q., et al. (2007). "FT protein movement contributes to long distance signalling in floral induction of Arabidopsis". Science 316: 1030–1033. doi:10.1126/science.1141752.
- ^ a b Abe, M., Kobayashi, Y., Yamamoto, S., Daimon, Y., Yamaguchi, A., et al. (2005). "FD, a bZIP protein mediating signals from the floral pathway integrator FT at the shoot apex". Science 309: 1052–1056. doi:10.1126/science.1115983.
- ^ Samach, A., Onouchi, H., Gold, S.E., Ditta, G.S., Schwarz-Sommer, Z., et al. (2000). "Distinct roles of CONSTANS target genes in reproductive development of Arabidopsis". Science 288: 1613–1616. doi:10.1126/science.288.5471.1613.
- ^ Yoo, S.K., Chung, K.S., Kim, J., Lee, J.H., Hong, S.M., et al. (2005). "CONSTANS activates SUPPRESSOR OF OVEREXPRESSION OF CONSTANS 1 through FLOWERING LOCUS T to promote flowering in Arabidopsis". Plant Physiology 139: 770–778. doi:10.1104/pp.105.066928.
- ^ Eckardt, N.A. (2007). "Phloem-Borne FT Signals Flowering in Cucurbits journal=Plant Cell". The Plant Cell Online 19: 1435–1438. doi:10.1105/tpc.107.053447.
- ^ Teper-Bamnolker, P., Samach, A. (2001). "The flowering integrator FT regulates SEPALLATA3 and FRUITFULL accumulation in Arabidopsis leaves". Cell 17: 2661–2675. doi:10.1105/tpc.105.035766.
- ^ a b Chaïlakhyan, M.K. (1985). "Hormonal regulation of reproductive development in higher plants". Biologia Plantarium 27: 292–302. doi:10.1007/BF02879865.
- ^ Chaïlakhyan, M.K. (1975). "Substances of plant flowering". Biologia Plantarium 17: 1–11. doi:10.1007/BF02921064.
- ^ Zeevaart, J.A.D. (1976). "Physiology of flower formation". Annual Reviews of Plant Physiology and Plant Molecular Biology 27: 321–348. doi:10.1146/annurev.pp.27.060176.001541.
- ^ Bernier, G., Havelange, A., Houssa, C., Petitjean, A., and Lejeune, P. (1993). "Physiological signals that induce flowering". Plant Cell 5: 1147–1155. doi:10.1105/tpc.5.10.1147.
[edit] External links
- Zeevaart, J.A.D. (August 2006). "Florigen Coming of Age after 70 Years". The Plant Cell 18 (
- Zeevaart, J.A.D. (September 2007). "FT Protein, not mRNA, is the Phloem-Mobile Signal for Flowering". Plant Physiology Online. http://4e.plantphys.net/article.php?ch=&id=398.
- Blooming Marvelous: Long sought-after flowering signal on Science’s list of Breakthroughs of 2005
bigjesse1922
Well-Known Member
I read it...
But there is a lot of jargon there for near 3 am lol
Oh boy...
But there is a lot of jargon there for near 3 am lol
Oh boy...
bigjesse1922
Well-Known Member
Yeah it makes sense. It didn't use or imply decay, it said that the hormone became unstable. Which could be interpreted as ineffective
I am really excited about this new grow Gypsy. How are your grafting experiments going btw?
GypsyBush
Well-Known Member
Just to be clear...
I said everything here tonight..
NONE of it was said by or agreed with by Blaze...
I was just using his example because it is what started the whole thought process...
Chances are he would think I am crazy for thinking the way I do...
He just does it, and it works..
No hate man...I will stop responding and let you catch up
I'm such an ass huh? We would probably hate each other in person, or get a long splindly. Feast or famine. Boon or bust.
Curse or Courtesy. LOL man am I high. Ihave been takin bong hits this whole "debate" GB.
I get along with everyone.. eve with people that don;t get along with me...
Yup.. it would be standard...
Anyone that is not worried about production must be rich...
wheter 40 watts or 40k watts.. being efficient means less waste...
Yeah.. I prolly could..
Lots of kief with it too...
Fuck grafting...Yeah it makes sense. It didn't use or imply decay, it said that the hormone became unstable. Which could be interpreted as ineffective
I am really excited about this new grow Gypsy. How are your grafting experiments going btw?
I just need to grow 2 plants together..
No risk...
I am not delicate enough... I break shit...
So yeah, I will be planning things a little better from here on.. and hopefully keep churning out some Satindica trees...
GypsyBush
Well-Known Member
As I said.. my opinion was formed not from a wikipedia article alone, but from talking to farmers and flower enthusiasts/professionals...It didn't use or imply decay, it said that the hormone became unstable. Which could be interpreted as ineffective
It was referenced as decay tome in the past, and I guess I just stuck with it,,,
bigjesse1922
Well-Known Member
Hell ya man!
Well I get along with you, lol.
Anyway bro, +rep to you for a spirited debate!
You would smoke me under the table. You have been smoking better weed with kief lol.
Man my sunburn is killin me. I gotta get to sleep. Sorry to take off man! Good night and I am really truely glad to see you could do all that fuckin work today and stay up debating my over opinionated self! I hope it means you are getting better more and more!
Well I get along with you, lol.
Anyway bro, +rep to you for a spirited debate!
You would smoke me under the table. You have been smoking better weed with kief lol.
Man my sunburn is killin me. I gotta get to sleep. Sorry to take off man! Good night and I am really truely glad to see you could do all that fuckin work today and stay up debating my over opinionated self! I hope it means you are getting better more and more!