Is it the thc or the plant that is illegal

iivan740

iivan740

Well-Known Member
Can anyone tell me difinitively whether it is THC or the plant Cannabis that is illegal under federal law in the USA? No "I think" or "I heard", I would like to see the proof. The states generally go along with the federal goverment so at the root of all laws against cannabis is the defining federal law....
I searched high and low and it seems that it is generally understood that cannabis is illegal because of the THC drug. I cannot find any real answer so I am asking you.
I think that making a plant illegal is very strange, I mean why not hops (beer grain) or tobacco?
I also think that making natural THC illegal and a class 1 drug is hypocritical. The FDA has approved and allows distribution of THC drugs through the pharmceutical companies.
So I find myself confused.
I have been a "good boy" all my life, and believed many of the falsehoods that were taught to me about "POT". Hell I believed it all until recently when I had a conversation with a co-worker about marijuana. I love being right, and I knew that I had this druggy dead to rights. So we talked about it and I couldn't believe the bullshit that this guy was talking with a straight face. I told him that he was an idiot for believing the stuff he did about pot.
Then I went home and started researching pot so that I could prove him wrong with real facts. Turns out he was more right than wrong. So I did a little more research and now i'm confused about a shit load of stuff that I thought I knew.
Anyway I would like to know what exactly is illegal in the federal goverments eyes and why.
 
aknight3

aknight3

Moderator
welcome to reality my friend, ive seen many a people that are blind to the eyes of ''reefer madness'', anyways germination of a cannabis seed containing thc under fedral law is illegal, (not the plant material, the thc itself) the plant material is actually used,its called hemp, but unfortuantley in order for the monopolized lumber companies to stay billionaires, they cannot have hemp taking over the paper and timber industry, but anyways yea sucks but hey usa government has been lieing to everyone their whole lives ever since anyone is on this earth now the govt has been lieing thats the way it is, why do you think theres a bible buddy ;) gotta keep order, anyways sorry to ramble, thc is illegel, germination of a cananbis seed containing thc or that will contain thc i dont know the exact words, but plant material is not illegal, its called hemp, but that type of cannabis doesnt have thc, its hard to explain good cannabis hemp and cannabis sativa differences
 
iivan740

iivan740

Well-Known Member
WOW, so it's ok to make THC, put it in to pill form, and distribute it in the United States. I mean isn't Marinol 100 percent synthetic THC? Doesn't synthetic mean man-made: not of natural origin; prepared or made artificially? But it is illegal to plant a seed that will make a plant that will create THC naturally. Can anyone see how this logic is fucking with my mind? You don't even have to be high for this logic to blow your mind.
To top it all off it seems that hemp was the original target and made illegal to grow becouse it was too good of a fiber, and the competition couldn't compete with it. So lets make everything that is too good to compete against illegal. Lets make oranges illegal because they produce vitamin C and there is no competition for the vitamin C from florida oranges?????????????????? WTF
Thank you for the reply, it confirms what i've researched over the last few months. And here I thought I was a smart guy! I guess we all have to wake sooner or later.
 
OregonMeds

OregonMeds

Well-Known Member
It's all illegal in the US. Hemp, THC, Cannabis, seeds. Seeds have no THC at all and they are illegal.
All you need to do to learn the truth is watch one of the many documentaries and you find out it's been illegal all this time due to corporations greed and simple prejudice against the minorities who used to be the only ones that used it.
Oh and because the prohibition of Alcohol ended abruptly so they demonized mj to keep the officers employed otherwise they would have had to let shitloads of people go in the whole justice system and lawyers would have lost money etc.
 
iivan740

iivan740

Well-Known Member
My internet searching leads me to believe that even though all cannabis is illegal, the USA still imports hemp yarn, fabric, and fiber. Check this out http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/ages001E/ages001Ef.pdf . So if it's all illegal how can it be imported?

If cannabis is illegal how is it that people can recieve medical marijuana through the federal goverment? I relize the goverment did away with the program when Aids became epidemic, but the federal goverment, still to this day sends illegal drugs (and according to the goverment a drug that has no medical relevance) to US citizens on a monthly basis. Check it http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/viewanswers.asp?questionID=257 .

I found this http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/pressrel/pr100901.html . It is a clarification by the DEA on hemp products; not growing hemp to produce product, just products made with hemp. It talks about the birdseed and it's legality OregonMeds, among other legal and illegal hemp products.

The more I look the more I can't understand the goverment position and laws concerning cannabis. On one hand it's illegal, but on the other it is acceptable to give to citizens for medication. On one hand it's illegal, but on the other the goverment allows imports to continue. On one hand it's illegal, but on the other the FDA and DEA allow synthetic copys to be produced and distributed as medicine (apparently very inferior medicine).

Getting away from the whole Medical vs. recreations use of cannabis as a drug, why do we have to loose a crop that can produce so many other products? It seems to me that we are loosing out on a viable industrial crop because the plant produces THC. Our goverment allows drug (pharmasutical) companies to produce THC. WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE???????????????

Now my question is "How in the hell has this gone on for so long?" I guess it's because of sheep like me that this hypocrisy has been able to stand for so long. Thankfully the internet is allowing the masses to research and come to their own conclusions about many things including cannabis.

I hope that I haven't rambled to much and as always thank you all for participating, and for the information.
 
iivan740

iivan740

Well-Known Member
OregonMeds I have been watching a few documentaries on cannabis. Even the National Geographics one wasn't able to put too much of a evil spin on cannabis "marijuana". The worst they could say is that the farmers have "invaded" national land, carry guns, and that goverment agents have been killed.

Funny thing about the dead agent thig is I can't find any attributed to cannabis. To be fair I stopped looking when all I was finding were civilian victims. Seriously page after page of civilian victims and not one agent? here are a few examples of what I found http://www.drugwarrant.com/articles/drug-war-victim/ , and if this doesn't scare you http://www.thisistrue.com/drugs.html , REALLY TWO OUNCES?????

Sorry, point is I have been watching documentaries about cannabis and find that the "drug" is not that "bad". Even the Schaffer library of drug policy http://www.druglibrary.org/Schaffer/library/graphs/graph03.htm , can't attribute one death to the use of cannabis (marijuana).
 
RickWhite

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
The federal statute is easy to find on-line. Any part of a cannabis plant including seeds and THC or anything reasonably similar to it (analogs) are illegal. I'm not sure if there are special permits to grow industrial hemp and of course those with the proper credentials can produce Marinol.

Anyway, if you spliced the THC gene into another plant that product would be illegal.
 
iivan740

iivan740

Well-Known Member
RickWhite said:
The federal statute is easy to find on-line. Any part of a cannabis plant including seeds and THC or anything reasonably similar to it (analogs) are illegal. I'm not sure if there are special permits to grow industrial hemp and of course those with the proper credentials can produce Marinol.

Anyway, if you spliced the THC gene into another plant that product would be illegal.
Click to expand...
I found the federal statutes, but I also found that the federal goverment has/is acting in contradiction to the laws.

As for all analogs to THC being illegal this is not true, the FDA has approved for distribution a 100 percent pure synthetic THC (I imagine that is an analog). Maby they mean all naturally occuring analogs.

I guess the point is that the synthetic counterpart proves (with its FDA approval), that THC is not a drug that has no medical relevance. Now if THC has medical relevance shouldn't cannabis be upgraded at least to a medically relevant source of said drug? It may very well still be considered a controlled substance, but at the very least it should be considered a medically relevant drug.

And riddle me this. Why is a substance that cannot be linked to one death because of use be considered a threat to anyones health? I don't give a damn if it does have psychodelic properties. The FDA allows lots of drugs on the market that have psychodelic side effects, or worse.

How is it ok to have a war on cannabis and turn around and provide it to people on a monthly basis? Again someone in the goverment must think its medically relevant.

How do you commission a report then throw it away when you don't like what it says? O' and then start a program that distributes the "evil" drug to the public.

How can the federal goverment enforce a law if they are breaking the law themselves?
:wall::wall::wall::wall::wall:
 
RickWhite

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
iivan740 said:
I found the federal statutes, but I also found that the federal goverment has/is acting in contradiction to the laws.

As for all analogs to THC being illegal this is not true, the FDA has approved for distribution a 100 percent pure synthetic THC (I imagine that is an analog). Maby they mean all naturally occuring analogs.

I guess the point is that the synthetic counterpart proves (with its FDA approval), that THC is not a drug that has no medical relevance. Now if THC has medical relevance shouldn't cannabis be upgraded at least to a medically relevant source of said drug? It may very well still be considered a controlled substance, but at the very least it should be considered a medically relevant drug.

And riddle me this. Why is a substance that cannot be linked to one death because of use be considered a threat to anyones health? I don't give a damn if it does have psychodelic properties. The FDA allows lots of drugs on the market that have psychodelic side effects, or worse.

How is it ok to have a war on cannabis and turn around and provide it to people on a monthly basis? Again someone in the goverment must think its medically relevant.

How do you commission a report then throw it away when you don't like what it says? O' and then start a program that distributes the "evil" drug to the public.

How can the federal goverment enforce a law if they are breaking the law themselves?
:wall::wall::wall::wall::wall:
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All this is a different subject.

Obviously pharmaceutical companies are allowed to produce Marinol and a host of other drugs. I fail to see how this enters into weather or not you can.

The answer to the OP's question is "no" it's not legal to posses or produce pure TCH.
 
iivan740

iivan740

Well-Known Member
This isn't about wether I can or even want to produce THC. Like I said before these are questions that I have about a law that seems to be the basis for a war but is broken by the very goverment that enacted it.

I think it is relevant to the conversation.
Build a logical argument that is TRUE and allows for the following example where the goverment sends "marijuana joints" to citizens.
http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/viewanswers.asp?questionID=257

1. THC is illegal OR THC is legal TRUE
2. IF THC is illegal THEN it is illegal to distribute TRUE
3. THC is illegal AND the goverment legally distributes it to citizens. FALSE but in reality this statement is TRUE

These are very simple logic arguments consisting of a logic disjunction

Using principles of logic statement 1 is true, statement 2 is true, and statement 3 is false. However statement 3 is also true, the 3rd statement is in direct contridiction to statement 1 and 2 but in the USA it is a TRUE statement. RickWhite can you (or anyone else for that matter) build me a logic table that allows for goverment distribution of marijuana joints AND makes marijuana illegal?

This same argument holds true for synthetic THC.

1. THC is illegal OR THC is legal TRUE
2. IF THC is illegal THEN it is illegal to distribute TRUE
3. THC is illegal AND the goverment allows legal distribution of synthetic THC. FALSE but again in reality TRUE

Point is it is either legal or illegal not both. The federal law doesn't allow for exceptions in this situation.
i'm not trying to be a spock like here, but there is no logic in the law then maby it is time to change the law on the federal level.
 
RickWhite

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
iivan740 said:
This isn't about wether I can or even want to produce THC. Like I said before these are questions that I have about a law that seems to be the basis for a war but is broken by the very goverment that enacted it.

I think it is relevant to the conversation.
Build a logical argument that is TRUE and allows for the following example where the goverment sends "marijuana joints" to citizens.
http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/viewanswers.asp?questionID=257

1. THC is illegal OR THC is legal TRUE
2. IF THC is illegal THEN it is illegal to distribute TRUE
3. THC is illegal AND the goverment legally distributes it to citizens. FALSE but in reality this statement is TRUE

These are very simple logic arguments consisting of a logic disjunction

Using principles of logic statement 1 is true, statement 2 is true, and statement 3 is false. However statement 3 is also true, the 3rd statement is in direct contridiction to statement 1 and 2 but in the USA it is a TRUE statement. RickWhite can you (or anyone else for that matter) build me a logic table that allows for goverment distribution of marijuana joints AND makes marijuana illegal?

This same argument holds true for synthetic THC.

1. THC is illegal OR THC is legal TRUE
2. IF THC is illegal THEN it is illegal to distribute TRUE
3. THC is illegal AND the goverment allows legal distribution of synthetic THC. FALSE but again in reality TRUE

Point is it is either legal or illegal not both. The federal law doesn't allow for exceptions in this situation.
i'm not trying to be a spock like here, but there is no logic in the law then maby it is time to change the law on the federal level.
Click to expand...
What you are attempting to do is build a syllogism. I can explain what makes a syllogism valid or not but I don't see why.

The DEA categorizes drugs into schedules based on their likelihood of dependency and medical use. Marinol has been determined and scheduled to be useful for medical purposes and can be prescribed. The schedule number escapes me at the moment. Aside from that, marijuana and it's parts (with the exception of Marinol) is considered by the DEA and FDA to have no medicinal value. Only Marinol can be prescribed by a physician. Doctors can not prescribe any marijuana preparation aside from Marinol. Cocaine oddly is still used as a numbing agent so it can be prescribed. They spray it in your throut before shoving a tube down it for surgery. It sucks real bad.

Anyway, I hope this answers your question. But really you can Google all this stuff.
 
doobnVA

doobnVA

Well-Known Member
Both the cannabis plant and THC are listed as schedule I drugs in the United states. This is why hemp is imported from other countries and not grown here. Hemp doesn't contain enough THC to give it the psychoactive properties, but the Drug Control Act doesn't differentiate between cannabis grown for hemp and cannabis grown for "marijuana". The cannabis plant is illegal to grow, period.

The prescription drug Marinol, also known as Dronabinol, is synthetic THC which is a schedule III drug. It is not derived from the cannabis plant and does not contain actual THC.
 
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