lights that are cooled?? HOW.........

[fatfarmer34]

I understand just showing alternatives. The problem with window units is they do not seal internaly well you will get odor outside of the room and with portables even though they are vented outside the room the heat exchanger is still I'm the room producing heat. Consumer reports has tons of tests showing the ineffiecency of portable units. The best is a mini split but they are expensive and unless a person has some knowledge of HVAC will need professional installation.

 

[uptosumpn]

Well said and good info, (from both of you guys) but I'm with you on effiency and ease of use....so with that said, I wanna go with this water cooled set-up via the ice box and water chiller..so here is my set/equiptment I will be using; I have a Homebox XL(56"x56"x78.75) going in a reg bedroom in hot a** S. Fla....A radiant 6 A/C reflector, 1000hps, (hortilux) a S&P TD-150 inline fan for light,(293cfm max), reflector & fan heat shield, a lil insulated ducting, windtunnel 6 fan,(440 cfm) with can 66 filter, ect....what size chiller would be effiecent to cool 2 ice boxes...(1 to cool the bulb and the other to cool the exiting air for room?) all of this is going in a small bedroom so do you have any suggestions on where the chiller could go? (may have to drill holes for feed and return lines) guess the res could stay in the room, but what size res and pumps? thanks for your input...

I understand just showing alternatives. The problem with window units is they do not seal internaly well you will get odor outside of the room and with portables even though they are vented outside the room the heat exchanger is still I'm the room producing heat. Consumer reports has tons of tests showing the ineffiecency of portable units. The best is a mini split but they are expensive and unless a person has some knowledge of HVAC will need professional installation.

 

[fatfarmer34]

I would suggest 1/4 HP chiller minimum but here is a 1/2 HP on ebay for $375 and they are in FL. http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-1-2-HP-CHILL...d=p3286.c0.m14 . If you can fit the reservoir in your tent it will help cool the room but not neccesary and the chiller can go anywhere it is easy to do the plumbing, next to an AC vent would be nice to help keep it cool.

 

[That 5hit]

great advice bro i think im going to listen to you +rep

 

[jberry]

i think water cooling is better, i have a kick ass air cooled system but like someone here already said , you can cool multible things/areas at once with water cooling, you cant do that with A/C...
im about to drop a lil over 4 grand on a complete package for a room im setting up in a very hot climate (you can get a waaay better deal if you look around the web for a complete package deal)... I'm getting the 2 hp chiller and ( ice boxes, along with a 100 gallon rez and everything else i need is also included. I did a decent amount of research and i was at the expo where the youtube video was filmed and saw for myself how well it all worked.Also anyone can research and find that a 24,000 btu A/C and a 24,000 btu chiller both use about 11 amps, but the chiller and ice box will be working less (thus using less energy) and most importantly imo is that you can easily add cooling to the precise areas you need, and control how cool it gets by giving each ice box its own valve.

Anyhow, heres some Q&A info:

Am I really saving money if I’m just trading the electricity of an AC for that of a chiller?
Yes! Don’t compare BTU to BTU or Amps to Amps when looking at chillers and AC units, because once again – it comes down to the SCIENCE of cooling. Because water cooling is more effective and efficient than air cooling – your chiller will operate more efficiently than your AC. When it reaches its desired cooling point – it shuts off! Many AC units (especially those being made to work overtime to cool hot grow rooms) run continuously and consume MUCH more power than a chiller. And roughly 70% of the energy used to run an AC is to power up the AC, not even cool the room!
Water is scientifically proven as a better heat absorbent than heat. Water has a thermal conductivity of 0.6W (m*K) which is much higher than the thermal conductivity of air which is only 0.03W/(m*K) – and a much higher specific heat capacity than air. What this means is that water can absorb and remove from your garden 4 times the heat nearly 20 times faster than air! Thus the energy that is produced by the chiller used to chill the water is not wasted ! Studies have shown that around 70% of the power consumed by an AC system goes to POWERING THE SYSTEM – not cooling the air. So you are only getting 30% cooling capacity for the same amount of electricity used. Can I “make AC” from using a chiller and get rid of my AC?
Yes, this is possible assuming all your variables are correctly sized and done right. By having a big enough chiller to more than cover the heat sources in your room (lights, water-cooled CO2 generators, ballasts, etc..) then by installing larger heat exchangers (Ice Boxes) connected to fans (we recommend 8” Ice Boxes with a fan directly attached) – you can create “spot AC” throughout your room. Not only that, but the air coming out of your light chain is also cooler. The rule of thumb is to set your chiller to 20 degrees colder than the desired temperature in your garden to cool the room.
*A third option or use is to wall mount an Ice Box with a small duct booster fan which acts as a dehumidifier by removing excess humidity from your garden reducing condensation

What is the rule of thumb for how much chiller power I need for the amount of lights I’m running?
Depending on what you use, – on average, ¼ HP per 1000w light is the MINIMUM amount of chiller power you need. This assumes that there is NO other heat in the room (ballasts, dehumidifiers, etc..). Also, if your outside temperatures are 105 and you try this, you may be undersized. We recommend 1/3 HP per 1000w light for optimum cooling of both your lights and possibly your room. Better to oversize than undersize, so you are not fighting to stay cool.

well, i really hope it all works out for me in 100+ degrees bcuz this is gunna be one pricey room....

oh and they are coming out with water cooled dehumidifiers too, my riu homie told me about them and i confirmed it on the website... that is going to change everything... once you can cool every piece of equitment in the room with one chiller than its kinda going to triumph over the old ways imo...

hope i helped...
~JB

oh and those videos are awesome! heres part two for the ones who havent seen it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CulolkUgyGc&feature=related

 

[TechnoMage]

The Hydro Innovations stuff is pretty cool but having to mount a chiller outside pretty much destroys any attempt at stealth.

 

[jberry]

The Hydro Innovations stuff is pretty cool but having to mount a chiller outside pretty much destroys any attempt at stealth.

yeah, that could look weird if you live in a mild climate, but if u live where its hot than it just looks like a A/C unit... in my case i have plenty of privacy and its goin 2 be in a hot climate, but i am still going to build a partial box around the chiller out of lattice to provide extra privacy from the unexpected and also so i could grow some sort of vine on the lattice to keep the chillers area nice and cool/shady.

or if you have another small room (like a cool bathroom with a open window and a fan ) than you can keep the chiller in there.

 

[chronicuser85]

Ok, here's a scientific answer for a comparison of liquid vs air cooling, if you're familiar at all with thermodynamics this should make sense:

Let's assume a few things.

1) Let's start with a 600W light- and we'll assume it's 50% efficient (it doesn't matter how accurate that is for this argument) and we run it for 10 minutes. 1Watt = 1Joule/second. Let's choose a time period of 10 minutes. Let's also assume for comparison's sake that the water and air are both at 25C.

Ok, with our basis of 10 minutes, we are working with 3000J of energy to dissipate. With that, we can now compare the abilities of air vs liquid:

The volumetric heat capacity of air at 25C = 0.001297 J/cm3 C
The volumetric heat capacity of water at 25C = 4.186 J/cm3 C

From these two heat capacities, it should be immediately clear that water is able to absorb MUCH more energy per unit volume than air. But let's continue just to get a better idea of exactly how much more effective it is:

Let's assume we want to lower the temperature by 5 degrees from some initial starting temperature, and then we can calculate the volume of air vs the volume of liquid to achieve this temperature drop.

Air:
cm3 = 3000J/[(.001297J/cm3 C)*5C] = 462 606 cm3
Water: 3000J/[(4.186J/cm3 C)*5C] = 143 cm3

As you can see, liquid cooling is much more efficient- you would need over 3000 times the volume of air per unit time to achieve the same cooling effects as liquid water. This is why liquid cooling is used in cars (radiators), high performance computers, and many other industiral/commerical applications.

wow dude can u be stoned and still produce those facts if so bravo sir bravo

 

[uptosumpn]

Ok cool..send me the link on the DIY icebox, and are you saying this chiller on e-bay can do the same job as their "expensive ass chillers"?? (I will only be using 1 1000hps in a Homebox XL,(56"x56"x78.75") in hot ass S. FLA!) , anything to beat FLIR! and what about the heat from the chiller itself??

I have a thread on it "DIY Icebox" and here is the link for the chiller. http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-1-2-HP-CHILLER-REEF-FISH-TANK-AQUARIUM_W0QQitemZ150368769310QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2302ad551e&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14 It's not really water cooling the light, it's water cooling the air being forced through the trans cooler.

 

[jberry]

A 1/2 hp chiller should be able to cool your single light no prob. But make sure you get a big enough rez. And pump.

 

[uptosumpn]

Ok I got it, use a 1/2hp chiller....so what size res and what size and how many pumps for my set up would you reccommend?? (will be usuing 2 Iceboxes connected to each side of reflector via fan and the Ice box themostat) 1 to cool the bulb, the other to cool the remaining exiting hot air

A 1/2 hp chiller should be able to cool your single light no prob. But make sure you get a big enough rez. And pump.

 

[jberry]

Ok I got it, use a 1/2hp chiller....so what size res and what size and how many pumps for my set up would you reccommend?? (will be usuing 2 Iceboxes connected to each side of reflector via fan and the Ice box themostat) 1 to cool the bulb, the other to cool the remaining exiting hot air

Here's what the pros recommend for YOUR set up...

Min. pump size : 1/6 HP Submersible Pump (1470 GPH)

Min. rez. size for 1/2 HP chiller: 25 GALLON

 

[jberry]

ok i got it, use a 1/2hp chiller....so what size res and what size and how many pumps for my set up would you reccommend?? (will be usuing 2 iceboxes connected to each side of reflector via fan and the ice box themostat) 1 to cool the bulb, the other to cool the remaining exiting hot air

oh, i forgot to tell you that you cant set it up they way your planning!

You can only have a ice box set up on the side of the reflector that the air is exiting!... This is important if you dont want to explode your expensive light bulb!

Sometimes water condensation will build up on the copper coils of the ice box and your fan will blow the water droplets on to your bulb, and that is a dangerous thing!!

You can still try using one for a/c... Just mount it on the wall, or wherever.

~jb

 

[uptosumpn]

Oh yeah...., your absolutly correct! I just realized the mistake in the set-up..fan goes on intake side of reflector, and put the first Icebox on the exiting side of reflector, and to have the other Icebox act as an A/C, (with Icebox thermostat attaced) attach it to a flange (on the exit side of course) outside the tent!....duhh...thanks!! +rep for looking out for me and preventing a dangerous situation...

HERE IS THE SET UP; INTAKE SIDE OF TENT; FLANGE> INSULATED DUCTING>293 MAX CFM FAN>RADIANT 6 REFLECTOR>ICEBOX>INSULATED DUCTING>DUAL FLANGE>ICEBOX>COOL AIR EXHAUSTING INTO ROOM

DID I GET IT RIGHT?

oh, i forgot to tell you that you cant set it up they way your planning!

You can only have a ice box set up on the side of the reflector that the air is exiting!... This is important if you dont want to explode your expensive light bulb!

Sometimes water condensation will build up on the copper coils of the ice box and your fan will blow the water droplets on to your bulb, and that is a dangerous thing!!

You can still try using one for a/c... Just mount it on the wall, or wherever.

~jb

 

[jberry]

Yep! I think u got it right bud!
Let us know how it works out for you.

~jb

 

[uptosumpn]

Do you think this chiller fatfarmer has reccommended will work? http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-1-2-HP-CHILL...d=p3286.c0.m14 and could it be in the same room as the tent, resorvior,ect? if so, how would you install it? Or should I just buy that expensive a** window mount one hydro innovations sell? (would like to save some money)

A 1/2 hp chiller should be able to cool your single light no prob. But make sure you get a big enough rez. And pump.

 

[jberry]

Do you think this chiller fatfarmer has reccommended will work? http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-1-2-HP-CHILL...d=p3286.c0.m14 and could it be in the same room as the tent, resorvior,ect? if so, how would you install it? Or should I just buy that expensive a** window mount one hydro innovations sell? (would like to save some money)

im no chiller expert but its a 6000 btu chiller, 6000 btu isnt much, but for one light it should work fine.

and no, you cant have the chiller in your grow tent... it blow hot air.
it can be kept in any vented area, the more vented and cool that room is the better5 the chiller will work.

 

[fatfarmer34]

A 6000 btu chiller actually is quite large as far as chillers go, it can cool 200 gallons 30 degrees. jberry is right on with the rest of his advice.

 

[uptosumpn]

no, i didnt say in the tent....i said in the room the tent is in. (outside the tent) ...but thanks for the responce....so basically to effectivly run 2 iceboxes with 1 1000hps with a 25gal res, and a 1/6 hp pump I would need a 1/2hp chiller with more than 6000btu's? how much btu's would you reccommend?

 

[uptosumpn]

so where could i install this one? can it go in the room where my tent/set-up will be? I'm trying to save money and really dont want to have to shell out over $1,600 for just a window mount chiller...

A 6000 btu chiller actually is quite large as far as chillers go, it can cool 200 gallons 30 degrees. jberry is right on with the rest of his advice.