Proof of the existence of an intelligent Creator and what His purpose of mankind is

Brazko

Well-Known Member
Comprehension has EVERYTHING to do with intelligence. Don't kid urself. Baby instincts aside,...??? weird. Comprehension is the key to truly understanding. Biblical man looked at the same stars, and the same planets as you and I, but they didn't have comprehension of them. They had no idea what the moon was, just that it was there. Things you and I don't think about much. You don't look up at the moon the same way. Ppl in 2000 years will look at the moon different from us as well. Their comprehension will have increased. See how that works?? :wink:
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I'll respond to this Part as it is the Only thing worth noting...

Baby instincts, are to Suckle>> They comprehend the scent/Voice they heard for 9mos as their Mother and appropriate their behavior towards it.. They will instinctively Suckle anything, and then raise Hell for the Scent/Voice of Mommy....Jeez Bro' look it Up :roll:

When Biblical man Looked up At the Sun, Moon, & Stars... No they didn't comprehend what A telescope was that would permit us to observe things closer, allowing us to Know, not Comprehend.... However, they did notice through sightful observations of the Sun, Moon, & Stars...the cycle of Seasons & when to plant/harvest their crops.., Observation & Comprehension.. or they had a Farmers Almanac :roll: :lol:

Or I'm simply responding directly to a post. Which is more probable? Take ur time and think it thru.

Well, you definitely are not responding to the content within the Posts, outside of boasting Up your Wounded eGo and sharing your Personal Opinions...

I'll take Nu-Shaman for 2000 Trebek :mrgreen:

it's been Fun CJ, but your University Level Intelligence has offered me No further insight, of anything... I'll let you continue berating Fish, that atleast helps me to Understand how differing People interact amongst each other,.. Tom & Jerry has become Holy Grounds of Profoundness
 

CrackerJax

New Member
I'll respond to this Part as it is the Only thing worth noting...

Baby instincts, are to Suckle>> They comprehend the scent/Voice they heard for 9mos as their Mother and appropriate their behavior towards it.. They will instinctively Suckle anything, and then raise Hell for the Scent/Voice of Mommy....Jeez Bro' look it Up :roll:

When Biblical man Looked up At the Sun, Moon, & Stars... No they didn't comprehend what A telescope was that would permit us to observe things closer, allowing us to Know, not Comprehend.... However, they did notice through sightful observations of the Sun, Moon, & Stars...the cycle of Seasons & when to plant/harvest their crops.., Observation & Comprehension.. or they had a Farmers Almanac :roll: :lol:




Well, you definitely are not responding to the content within the Posts, outside of boasting Up your Wounded eGo and sharing your Personal Opinions...

I'll take Nu-Shaman for 2000 Trebek :mrgreen:

it's been Fun CJ, but your University Level Intelligence has offered me No further insight, of anything... I'll let you continue berating Fish, that atleast helps me to Understand how differing People interact amongst each other,.. Tom & Jerry has become Holy Grounds of Profoundness
Hooboy.... I never said they couldn't comprehend ANYTHING! They just didn't have the same knowledge as us. They were primitive. We all look at the same stars, but they had NO idea those were suns out there. they had no idea that Venus was a PLANET!! No ideas... no ideas about their world, so they made up stories to fit their situation as best they could.
No fault there.... that would be normal for a pre science ppl. What is faulty is that 2000 years later, we have the answers... lots of them.... and yet some ppl still cling to the primitive explanations.

Their comprehension levels were... primitive. The Bible reflects the primitive lifestyle.

Pre science ... religion.

You don't gain insight because you don't want to.

You want the comfort of the fairy tale.... I understand.
 

Brazko

Well-Known Member
Hooboy.... I never said they couldn't comprehend ANYTHING! They just didn't have the same knowledge as us. They were primitive. We all look at the same stars, but they had NO idea those were suns out there. they had no idea that Venus was a PLANET!! No ideas... no ideas about their world, so they made up stories to fit their situation as best they could.
No fault there.... that would be normal for a pre science ppl. What is faulty is that 2000 years later, we have the answers... lots of them.... and yet some ppl still cling to the primitive explanations.

Their comprehension levels were... primitive. The Bible reflects the primitive lifestyle.

Pre science ... religion.

You don't gain insight because you don't want to.

You want the comfort of the fairy tale.... I understand.
What Kind of Warped Reversed Psychology MineD Kontrolle are U using, I subit Jedi MAskter kiss-ass
 

Trypt

Member
I'm using common sense. Something in short supply with the religious... :wink:
your common sense is nothing but the product of man you lack faith in
you have contradicted yourself on more than one point and should simply stop posting in the thread...this time im serious otherwise please, try to hold a spiritual discussion with me 1on1

you claim open mindedness and common sense yet you provide no evidence you use them, this is why i will call you a hypocritical nu-shaman with things to learn about human interaction and intelligent discussion.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
Of course common sense emanates from man... where else would it come from? Kind of a point there....

Please point out the contradictions instead of just blanketing me with a generalization. Make an effort.
 

Brazko

Well-Known Member
your common sense is nothing but the product of man you lack faith in
you have contradicted yourself on more than one point and should simply stop posting in the thread...this time im serious otherwise please, try to hold a spiritual discussion with me 1on1

you claim open mindedness and common sense yet you provide no evidence you use them, this is why i will call you a hypocritical nu-shaman with things to learn about human interaction and intelligent discussion.

NOoooooo, It's Very Hypnotizing, Turn Away from the Light, the REstleSS Long Sweaty Nights are not Worth It, you're Slipping, Can't hold ON much Longer.....Ur. Slip....ping..... Ohhh, NoOOoooooo


[youtube]56_g0SmU38w[/youtube]
 

newport78

Well-Known Member
Im, For the most part, With CJ.

From my experiences of living within a religious family I have noted the following:

#1 You seem to all be hypocritical people. Witch is, In my opinion, Completely expected of any human being, Some more so than others. What i mean by hypocritical though is that, For the most part, Religious people try to dis-prove science, And yet they continue to wash dishes in the dish washer, Drive there cars back and forth to church, Listen to religious music on the radio etc.

#2 Again, For the most part, And from my experiences. You all tend to be of fairly average IQ or lower. Not trying to flame anyone here or anything like that, But I have yet to see one religious argument that docent go one of multiple ways. The following being but a few examples.

(A) Being asked why we can prove "he" docent exist. (We ALL know how this one goes so not going further into it as we havent seen this)

(B) Constantly trying to prove your almighty being with the source of the idea. (Already talked about moving on)

(C) Arguing that this almighty being decided that instead of telling "Adam" and "Eve" his commandments, And make them traditional law. He decided "Hey, Dont munch on that fruit. I didnt put it here for you, I put it here for when i return in thousands of years" And opted to later come back for no apparent reason and carve them in stone. For his creations to later find. (I may be a little off on exactly who found it. As its been years since i went to church much less glanced at a bible. So im not 100% sure if it was "Jesus". However the point remains valid to an extent.

#3 Even from YOU'RE "great and holy" bible, He seems like he would be a fairly two faced, And quite frankly, Fairly ignorant being. Especially for his reputation. I mean in all seriousness here, We say the government is fucking (For lack of a better word.) us over constantly. To an extent, Yes, You're right. In actuality however, They are more mistaken. Where as "God", Seems too be more cruel, Psychotic if you would. I mean I have serious mental problems. Anger being one of them, But I have never had someone steal from me and me cut off there hand and then make them pay me back 5x what they stole. Along with the return of the stolen items. (And yes, I may be mixing a religion here and there, And I apologize, As stated before its been awhile.)

I could go on, But I feel as though I have made enough of a point. If I am mistaken please address the mistakes specifically. I will edit/concede as necessary.

If anyone would like to continue to debate with me, I will break out my family bible and recheck my statements before I post anything else.

Also, I dont want to be flamed for my views, Nor do I intend to flame anyone else.

End note: WHY THE FUCK MUST WE HAVE THESE DEBATES!?!? ESPECIALLY ON A SITE LIKE THIS!!! WE ARE ALL HYPOCRITS!!! I mean seriously. We sit on this forum, Talk about "Love", "Peace" etc. Yet we have debates over something completely pointless. Cant we just leave each other alone? I mean if I come to you and ask to debate, Or ask to learn about god, Thats all fine and dandy preach all you want. I do two simple things in life to prevent these things, And I ask you start to do it too.

#1 If someone has different beliefs than you. Address it when you notice it. All it takes is "Hey I dont agree with that religion lets leave religion alone" Its that simple. Why cant we do that? I understand this is an open debate topic, But im talking more for sharing your views when you arent invited to. So in short: DONT DO IT!!!

#2 If you do choose to debate. Please, Bring an open mind, Dont speak unless you're willing to A: Be proven/shown enough viable evidence to prove your wrong. B: Be open minded, And not only understand and comprehend what others are saying, But add it to the equation.

Thats all I have to say on the subject currently. Good luck, And good life to all of you. No matter what your religion.
 
P

PadawanBater

Guest
Hey Newport, your post just made me want to address this because I see it pretty often, this is just the way I feel about it. I respect your opinion though, thanks for posting.

You said pretty much live and let live, people should just believe whatever and nobody else should care. I agree, but I think it becomes a little more complicated than that. When the things people believe start indirectly affecting other people with different beliefs, that's when it becomes a problem.

Also, the way knowledge is gained and built upon is trial and error. While I'm fine with letting people believe whatever they wish to believe as long as it doesn't affect me, I can't say the same thing for letting those same people make decisions that will affect the future generations based on their, in my opinion, incorrect belief. Their belief is essentially keeping me from reaching my goals in an indirect kind of way.

Some people think we don't know how to get the right information, or that the information we do have is flawed because we make mistakes and nothing is 100% certain. There is a perfect example in another thread, the "evolution is only a theory that you base your religion on", fish doesn't believe the dating methods we use to date things are accurate, he won't accept it no matter how much proof or evidence is provided. If we let people like that make big decisions that affect everyone, their belief has the potential to conflict with the best interests of the nation, people, world, etc.


The bottom line is pretty much this; I don't think it's OK to let a person be content believing they know the correct information based on flawed logic which has already been compromised by their faith. Faith is a conflict of interest in the persuit of genuine knowledge.
 

NOWitall

Active Member
You want to know the real difference between religion and science??

you can sell religion to the uneducated. now i dont mean anything disrespectfull by that, im not saying anything about anybodies anything.

im just saying i couldnt go door to door and sell people string theory, knock on a door and say "hello me and my brethren meet down at the old supercollider, heres a pamphlet on particle interaction with the quantum foam at the subatomic level, if it looks interesting why dont you come on by."

not to mention that will bring nobody any comfort. people LIKE the idea of god. they like having that there for them. it aint everbodies cupa tea (please keep in mind some one my misspellings are in fact phenetic spellings of various accents )

do yall know the old joke, about the 3 blind men that find an elephant??

3 blind men find an elephant one day, and they start feeling it, trying to figure out what it is.
the first blind man has his hand on the side of the elephant and says "It's a wall.".
the second blind man has his hand on the elephants leg and says "NO, its a tree."
the third blind man has his hand on the elephants tail and says "your both wrong, its a snake."

i loves me some parable :-)

or how bout this one

one day a witch put a poison in the villages water supply (go with me here) and it drove all the villagers instantly insane. but the king had his own private water supply, and was unaffected by the poison.
soon the villagers began to notice how strange the king was acting. how he wasnt behaving like himself at all. untill finally they began to suspect that the king was insane. not thinking it wise to let a madman rule them they set out to hack him to death. so the king ran straight through town to the well. and drank as much as he could. and when the villigers arrived they said "thanks be praised the king has regained his sanity".

or how bout a nice old zen koan.

Master Gutei, whenever, he was questioned about Zen, just stuck up one finger. He had a young attendant, whom a visitor asked, "What Zen does your Master teach?" The boy stuck up one finger. hearing of this, the Master cut off the boys finger with a knife. As the boy ran screaming with pain, Gutei called to him. When the boy turned his head, Gutei stuck up one finger. The boy was enlightened.

hehehe, and u thought u had rough teachers :-)

so see here we got 3 parables, now a person could read alot into any one of them, but whos to say which interpretation is the correct one. or is it possible for ALL of them to be correct.

and i was taught to always leave em wanting more, sooooooooo.

ill leave you with this joke, please read the ENTIRE joke before you get angry.

this old couple has been trying to have a baby. so they go see a doctor, and the doctor wants a sperm sample.
the old man says thats gonna take awhile.
so the doctor gives him a specimin jar and tells him to take it home, and bring the sample back tomarrow.
so its the next day and the man comes back, but the jar is still empty. "what happened" asked the doctor.
"well," the man says, "i got home and i tried with my one hand, and then i tried with my otherhand, nothin. so then i called my wife in, and she tried with one hand, then she tried with her other hand, then she tried with both hands, then she even tried to use her mouth, dentures in dentures out, nothin.
so then we called the neighbors over, and they all tried for awhile, nothin."
"so we were hoping you could help us doctor."
"what the hell do you want me to do??"
welll says the man.
"can you get the lid off???"
 

newport78

Well-Known Member
I like that joke, Pretty funny. As to the circumstances upon which we scrutinize people: There is a difference in our dispositions on it bear. I look at it as we are sitting here, Just chilling. So why bother them? Why do they have to bother us? I guarantee you, If anyone of them have any sort of a higher ups job they get bitched at about it enough. As for those that dont. I say leave them be, We already have won this war. We dont need to ram the preverbal door constantly. Just strap some dynamite to it every now and then.

As for the pamphlet idea. If you make it, Send it to me, With 10 grams of dank. Il send you back a tape of going to my grandpas church and doing it. Right in the middle of the procession too.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
he's not wrong about the education part .. and yes, the jokes were funny... :wink:

It's a bit deeper than that. I believe that for the most part the church followers are made up of several groups.

1.) The Uneducated
2.) The Lonely
3.) The Brainwashed from birth
4.) The Manipulator
5.) The Business Networker
 

Brazko

Well-Known Member
Paddy, I feel the same way you do, but you cannot lose focus on the ball, If its corruption, greed, selfishness, hate, etc. That you despise.. Then don't choose to do a drive by shooting on religion, and hit all the innocent victims, trying to kill the guilty party. Narrow your aim, and you would probably start seeing the goals you wish to obtain manifest

Noitall: nice parables, too bad few are still only able to interpret 1 meaning:, the same meaning. Ready had

Newport, sorry no War..just the one inside your head

CJ - you continue to astound me, deep bro...deep
 

newport78

Well-Known Member
If you call it "A war inside" my head. Thats fine and dandy. Just felt as though I should give my input.
 

Brazko

Well-Known Member
:-P, don't get me Wrong, I appreciate that you shared, you do seem content in trying to explain yourself thoughtfully, I just Didn't agree that there was a War. I talk with religious & evolutionist types all the time, and usely participate in the two actively, & I never feel like I'm @ War.. Which side are you fiGhting for? Go New PorT Go -clap- -clap- Go nEw Port Go -clap- - clap- :-P :mrgreen:!! It't all Good Bro'

:peace:
 

fish601

Active Member
I believe that for the most part the church followers are made up of several groups.

1.) The Uneducated
2.) The Lonely
3.) The Brainwashed from birth
4.) The Manipulator
5.) The Business Networker
i guess crackerjax is one of a few that has it all figured out?.
 

Brazko

Well-Known Member
myth as in a story created by man, i'd say most current views of "god" are.

as far as existing beyond our physical world...
does anyone at all read into what i say about consciousness, string theory, multiple dimensions and energy??
Hey TryPt, I should've been delving in the Subject of String Theory a long time ago, I've always been fascinated with the subject, but only skimmed through small articles on it, or viewed short documentaries on the Subject..

But now, I think it's time for me to pick apart the science which has been laid for string Theory... Why? because it directly correlates, with the observations and gained knowledge I have already collected and concluded to with the Theory and Concept of Two Minds... String Theorist have already laid the Ground Work, which goes back to the Idea of Two Branes (membranes that is).. Here is a article on the Ekpyrotic Universe Theory, which does not contradict the Big Bang Theory, but insteads offer an alternative way that the currently Observed expansion might have been jumped started. Sorry, if it appears long, but it is a Easy and Good Read, for those who become overwhelmed & disinterested by long drawn out Jibberish, like Me :mrgreen:...

Think it's time to pick Up some Literature on String Theory, anyhow here's the ARticle....

[SIZE=+2]A Brief Introduction to the Ekpyrotic Universe [/SIZE]
Paul J. Steinhardt
Princeton University​
The Ekpyrotic Model of the Universe proposes that our current universe arose from a collision of two three-dimensional worlds (branes) in a space with an extra (fourth) spatial dimension. The proposal is interesting in and of itself, but also because it is the precursor to a more powerful and explanatory theory, the Cyclic Model described in earlier links on this page.
What is the Big Bang model?

To the public, the model means that the universe began from a single point, underwent an explosion, and has been flying apart ever since.
However, the big bang is not an explosion at all. This is an unfortunate misnomer that cosmologists would like to correct. But the bad name has stuck.
The big bang is the expansion or stretching of space. It is not that things are flying out from a point. Rather, all things are moving away from each other. It is like having an infinite rubber sheet with people sitting on it. Stretch the rubber sheet, and all the people move away from one another. Each things they are at the center of an explosion. It is an optical illusion - everybody moves away from everybody else and there is no center.
Run the story going back and time and the sheet was more and more unstretched and the people were closer together. When everybody is so close they are on top of one another, that is is the beginning of the big bang picture - the cosmic singularity. At that time, the universe has nearly infinite density and temperature.
Does the new theory contradict the Big Bang model?
Here we must be careful. There are some skeptics who have written "the Big Bang never happened", by which they mean that the universe is not expanding today and it never has been. They say this despite overwhelming evidence in favor of expansion and cooling today and for the last 15 billion years. Our model does nothing to contradict this story. That is, the universe has been expanding for the past 15 billion years.
What our model does is amend the earliest moments of the story. Instead of beginning with nearly infinite temperature and density, the universe began in a very different state - cold and nearly vacuous. The hot expanding universe we know came as a result of collision that brought the universe up to a large but finite temperature and density. The rest of the story is as the Big Bang model would have it, but the beginning is different.
Why do we need to replace the beginning of the story?
Because the Big bang model, with no amendments, would tend to produce a universe that is highly inhomogeneous, with a warped and curved space, and no natural mechanism for making stars, galaxies and larger scale structures in the universe. Cosmologists have been trying to correct these deficiencies by amending the early history of the universe - within the first billionth billionth billionths of s second or less. One proposal is the "inflationary theory" of the universe, which proposes that the universe began hot and dense, and underwent a period of hyperexpansion. The ekpyrotic model is a new alternative, which is, in many ways, a more radical departure from the Big Bang concept.
What is the Ekpyrotic proposal?
The model is based on the idea that our hot big bang universe was created from the collision of two three-dimensianal worlds moving along a hidden, extra dimension. The two three-dimensional worlds collide and ``stick," the kinetic energy in the collision is converted the quarks, electrons, photons, etc., that are confined to move along three dimensions. The resulting temperature is finite, so the hot big bang phase begins without a singularity. The universe is homogeneous because the collision and initiation of the big bang phase occurs nearly simultaneously everywhere. The energetically preferred geometry for the two worlds is flat, so their collision produces a flat big bang universe. According to Einstein's equations, this means that the total energy density of the Universe is equal to the critical density. Massive magnetic monopoles, which are overabundantly produced in the standard big bang theory, are not produced at all in this scenario because the temperature after collision is far too small to produce any of these massive particles.
Quantum effects cause the incoming three-dimensional world to ripple along the extra-dimension prior to collision so that the collision occurs in some places at slightly different times than others. By the time the collision is complete, the rippling leads to small variations in temperature, which seed temperature fluctuations in the microwave background and the formation of galaxies. We have shown that the spectrum of energy density fluctuations is scale-invariant (the same amplitude on all scales). The production of a scale-invariant spectrum from hyperexpansion was one of the great triumphs of inflationary theory, and here we have repeated the feat using completely different physics.
The building blocks of the ekpyrotic theory are derived from superstring theory. Superstring theory requires extra dimensions for mathematical consistency. In most formulations, 10 dimensions are required. In the mid-1990's, Petr Horava (Rutgers) and Ed Witten (IAS, Princeton) argued that, under certain conditions, an additional dimension opens up over a finite interval. Six dimensions are presumed to be curled up in a microscopic ball, called a Calabi-Yau manifold. The ball is too small to be noticed in everyday experience, and so our universe appears to be a four-dimensional (three space dimensions and one time dimension) surface embedded in a five-dimensional space-time. This five-dimensional theory, called heterotic M-theory, was formulated by Andre Lukas (Sussex). Ovrut and Dan Waldram (Queen Mary Westerfield College). According to Horava-Witten and heterotic M-theory, particles are constrained to move on one of the three-dimensional boundaries on either side of the extra dimensional interval. Our visible universe would be one of these boundaries; the other boundary and the intervening space would be hidden because particles and light cannot not travel across the intervening space. Only gravity is able to couple matter on one boundary to the other. In addition, there can exist other three-dimensional hypersurfaces in the interval, which lie parallel to the outer boundaries and which can carry energy. These intervening planes are called ``branes," short for membranes. The collision that ignites the hot big bang phase of the ekpyrotic model occurs when a three-dimensional brane is attracted to and collides into the boundary corresponding to our visible universe.
Where does the term "ekpyrotic" come from?
The term ``ekpyrosis" means ``conflagration" in Greek, and refers to an ancient Stoic cosmological model. According to the model, the universe is created in a sudden burst of fire, not unlike the collision between three-dimensional worlds in our model. The current universe evolves from the initial fire.
Cautionary note: As a final remark, we feel that it is important to realize that inflationary theory is based on quantum field theory, a well-established theoretical framework, and the model has been carefully studied and vetted for twenty years. Our proposal is based on unproven ideas in string theory and is brand new. While we appreciate the enthusiasm and interest with which the paper has been received, we would suggest some patience before promulgating these ideas in order to leave time for us to produce some follow-up papers that introduce additional elements and to allow fellow theorists time for criticism and sober judgment.
 
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