MonstroniuM
Active Member
How is the housing market on the area? Seems like my kind of state, although there is no 'salty' water around 
Guess What.......... Oklahoma did it anyway.
- Thread starter Haul me to Heaven
- Start date
Leothwyn
Well-Known Member
I understand the point of your post, but disagree with the above statement.
Who is being hurt if I ignore:
- thou shall have no god but me
- don't take the lord's name in vain
- keep the sabbath holy
If islam suddenly became hugely popular in a part of the country and people wanted to put quotes about allah in gov. buildings, or scientology became more popular and people started putting up quotes about zyklon the magic-alien-ghost spirit (or whatever the fuck those people are into) in gov. buildings - I'd have a problem with it.
I say - keep your preachy bullshit in your own homes and churches, not in places that are funded with everyone's money, and are shared by all citizens (including the ones who don't go in for that crap).
Haul me to Heaven
New Member
Question 1= God is the one being hurt and as for the latter, that would be fine if that's what the people of the State wanted that.
And if I didn't like it, I could always move to another State.
The rights of the people govern the laws of the state.
And if I didn't like it, I could always move to another State.
The rights of the people govern the laws of the state.
abe23
Active Member
I'm used to the abuse by now but I do appreciate that...
To the point.
Sure, the ten commandments are a pretty solid guidelines for how to behave in society, but so are our laws and the reality is that our country was founded on secular humanist principles, not religious ones. Bottom line is that it is just as unconstitutional as warrantless searches, denying criminals the right to habeas corpus petition or denying you your right to bear arms. If we amend the constitution, then OK can put baby jesus in the courthouse but right now doing that would break our most basic laws, i.e. the bill of rights.
Also, there's nothing wrong with religion in my book, but that's not where morality should come from. If you need the ten commandments to tell you that killing, stealing and lying are wrong, you are probably a pretty shitty person. You will know this about me by now, but I also can't stand the hypocrisy of some religious people, who are aghast about abortion and euthanasia, but don't really care all that much about people who die because they lack health insurance or get killed because we send them into war without thinking it through completely.
Finally, immigration. People would not be entering the country illegally if it weren't for the promise of jobs. The reason our job market has been so tight until the recent recession is that we aren't opening the borders enough to let in people who could be doing those jobs legally. If we crack down on undocumented immigrants and the employers who hire them without first addressing the problems in our labor market, the job market tightens and we end up with inflation. And I've said this before, if we make it easier for the right people to immigrate to america legally, then I'm all for harsher border controls and deporting people whenever practical. To his credit, bush actually tried to do something about this, but he got cockblocked by the nativists in the republican party...
This is also something I've already mentioned to you, but just listening to a lot of the things being said about 'illegal immigration' and assimilation, language and culture by people who are up in arms about this issue, it seems like it's not really about them being undocumented and much more about them being hispanic. Am I wrong?
jeff f
New Member
sort of.
for sure its about them being hispanic with SOME people. just as some dont except blacks, christians, jews, muslim ect. that will always be the case.
but from the conservative veiwpoint its much more about the law. conservatives dont accept that people who come here and start gang violence, human trading etc should be coddled. and for damn sure they shouldnt recieve free medical care, welfare, blah blah blah.
if there are immigrants from anywhere who want to come here and work to advance their family, life, etc. great, we want you. its the other end of the spectrum that has literally destroyed several large city areas and turned them into cesspools of crime.
bottom line, if you are willing to follow the law and come here legally we welcome you with open arms. if you are coming here against the law, you shouldnt be rewarded.
unfortunately for hispanic immigrants, there is a very visible sector of their immigrants who are very bad people. so people paint them with a broad brush.
abe23
Active Member
Literally like typing at wall, man....
THERE ISN'T ENOUGH LEGAL IMMIGRATION!!! Green cards are done by lottery and the same for the H-1B visas for high-skilled workers. Microsoft has a campuses in china and india partly because they can't get the right people to legally immigrate to the US...
Again, if you fix that and find someone who will pick your fruit and kill your cows for you, then fine....build an even bigger fence and throw everyone out. But until then, it's a moot point. And half the republican party is sensible enough to know this...
Haul me to Heaven
New Member
Abe23 said (my response in blue)
Sure, the ten commandments are a pretty solid guidelines for how to behave in society, but so are our laws and the reality is that our country was founded on secular humanist principles, not religious ones.
Not true. Recheck your history. It was the establishment of any particular religion by the government was made unconstitutional – via the 1st amendment.
Bottom line is that it is ( what is ‘it’? ) just as unconstitutional as warrantless searches, denying criminals the right to habeas corpus petition or denying you your right to bear arms. If we amend the constitution, then OK can put baby jesus in the courthouse but right now doing that would break our most basic laws, i.e. the bill of rights.
Wrong again. A State may do what they want according to their constitution. Remember- we are each independent countries that have United; became part of a Union of States but no State was required to give up their Constitutional rights and powers. History 101. OK can tell Uncle Scam to pound sand on this and the only repercussion will be extortion by Washington DCt “do what we say or lose the money you have a right to from us”. Etc.
Also, there's nothing wrong with religion in my book, but that's not where morality should come from.
Should it come from… public schools? Magazines? NPR? FOX or MSNBC? Public Opinion?
If you need the ten commandments to tell you that killing, stealing and lying are wrong, you are probably a pretty shitty person. You will know this about me by now, but I also can't stand the hypocrisy of some religious people, (keep religion out of it… don’t add to the post.) who are aghast about abortion and euthanasia, but don't really care all that much about people who die because they lack health insurance or get killed because we send them into war without thinking it through completely.
(So are you blaming religion for that or just all religious people? This is where you what ‘religions’ to do as YOU say and/or want. And if they do something different than what you say or want then all ‘religions’ and ‘religious people’ are wrong and bad. Sounds like you want Gods job.. )
Finally, immigration. People would not be entering the country illegally if it weren't for the promise of jobs.
(Which is illegal to hire them. See what happens when that law is NOT enforced?)
The reason our job market has been so tight until the recent recession is that we aren't opening the borders enough to let in people who could be doing those jobs legally. (?) If we crack down on undocumented immigrants and the employers who hire them without first addressing the problems in our labor market, the job market tightens and we end up with inflation. (a compounded train wreck in the making with the linking of those two separate entities.)
And I've said this before, if we make it easier for the right people to immigrate to america legally,
(currently you can come to the States if you have a valid job waiting. Aspen job markets are full of Kiwi’s and Aussies and Euro trash (LOL ! snicker, snicker) all with valid jobs for the taking prior to their coming here. What you are saying is not as ‘fact based’ as you think it is.)
then I'm all for harsher border controls and deporting people whenever practical. To his credit, bush actually tried to do something about this, but he got cockblocked by the nativists in the republican party... (?)
This is also something I've already mentioned to you, but just listening to a lot of the things being said about 'illegal immigration' and assimilation, language and culture by people who are up in arms about this issue, it seems like it's not really about them being undocumented and much more about them being hispanic. Am I wrong?
For the most part yes. If you go to an area infested with one nationality- their will be problems with that culture. Boil it down and you will see it’s being here illegally that gets people in the biggest twist.
Sure, the ten commandments are a pretty solid guidelines for how to behave in society, but so are our laws and the reality is that our country was founded on secular humanist principles, not religious ones.
Not true. Recheck your history. It was the establishment of any particular religion by the government was made unconstitutional – via the 1st amendment.
Bottom line is that it is ( what is ‘it’? ) just as unconstitutional as warrantless searches, denying criminals the right to habeas corpus petition or denying you your right to bear arms. If we amend the constitution, then OK can put baby jesus in the courthouse but right now doing that would break our most basic laws, i.e. the bill of rights.
Wrong again. A State may do what they want according to their constitution. Remember- we are each independent countries that have United; became part of a Union of States but no State was required to give up their Constitutional rights and powers. History 101. OK can tell Uncle Scam to pound sand on this and the only repercussion will be extortion by Washington DCt “do what we say or lose the money you have a right to from us”. Etc.
Also, there's nothing wrong with religion in my book, but that's not where morality should come from.
Should it come from… public schools? Magazines? NPR? FOX or MSNBC? Public Opinion?
If you need the ten commandments to tell you that killing, stealing and lying are wrong, you are probably a pretty shitty person. You will know this about me by now, but I also can't stand the hypocrisy of some religious people, (keep religion out of it… don’t add to the post.) who are aghast about abortion and euthanasia, but don't really care all that much about people who die because they lack health insurance or get killed because we send them into war without thinking it through completely.
(So are you blaming religion for that or just all religious people? This is where you what ‘religions’ to do as YOU say and/or want. And if they do something different than what you say or want then all ‘religions’ and ‘religious people’ are wrong and bad. Sounds like you want Gods job.. )
Finally, immigration. People would not be entering the country illegally if it weren't for the promise of jobs.
(Which is illegal to hire them. See what happens when that law is NOT enforced?)
The reason our job market has been so tight until the recent recession is that we aren't opening the borders enough to let in people who could be doing those jobs legally. (?) If we crack down on undocumented immigrants and the employers who hire them without first addressing the problems in our labor market, the job market tightens and we end up with inflation. (a compounded train wreck in the making with the linking of those two separate entities.)
And I've said this before, if we make it easier for the right people to immigrate to america legally,
(currently you can come to the States if you have a valid job waiting. Aspen job markets are full of Kiwi’s and Aussies and Euro trash (LOL ! snicker, snicker) all with valid jobs for the taking prior to their coming here. What you are saying is not as ‘fact based’ as you think it is.)
then I'm all for harsher border controls and deporting people whenever practical. To his credit, bush actually tried to do something about this, but he got cockblocked by the nativists in the republican party... (?)
This is also something I've already mentioned to you, but just listening to a lot of the things being said about 'illegal immigration' and assimilation, language and culture by people who are up in arms about this issue, it seems like it's not really about them being undocumented and much more about them being hispanic. Am I wrong?
For the most part yes. If you go to an area infested with one nationality- their will be problems with that culture. Boil it down and you will see it’s being here illegally that gets people in the biggest twist.
abe23
Active Member
http://www.aynrand.org/site/News2?id=6177
Morality comes from within. I know it's wrong to kill and steal without having to read the bible. As I said, if you need religion to tell you that, you're probably not a very good person.
And immigration and our domestic labor market have nothing to do with eachother? What the fuck? And do you have anything other than anecdotal evidence about aspen to back up your claim that there is no problem with legal immigration into the US? Again, a lot these dynamics have changed since the recession...
Bush tried to push through immigration reform that wasn't all bad but couldn't get the pro-business people and the nativists in his party to agree on anything so it was dropped.
Again, you talk about illegal immigration but mention things like language, culture, gangs and all this other shit, which makes me think you just don't like immigrants, illegal or not. You guys have boiled it down fairly well and all I see is the same kind of prejudice that has greeted every generation of new americans who arrived at our shores, legal or not.
Haul me to Heaven
New Member
You are beyond understanding. And without comprehension. You play the 'learn as you go' game but learn nothing on the way. You have a right to your opinion but that does not mean you opinion is right.
abe23
Active Member
I'm trying to learn from you but every conversation end in a dead end. Just like this...
natrone23
Well-Known Member
Haul me to Heaven
New Member
Merry Christmas to you to!
Hitler thought he was doing the world a favor by killing those that killed Christ. Now that's some twisted 'logic' !! ??
abe23
Active Member
Ok, assuming you are correct, how is that any different from what al quaeda is doing in the name of islam?
jeff f
New Member
amazing how many people fell for this garbage. sounds very much like ahmegonnaneedahandjob from iran....he is just a peace loving person who is misunderstood....scary scary stuff. thanks for sharing that natrone.
merry Christmas fellow stoners
jeff f
New Member
not very different at all. and here is the problem for muslims, they havent launched a worldwide PR campaign to call these scumbags out. everytime you see some leader in the muslim community they sidestep the issue and make excuses for it.
if they would only call a spade....
abe23
Active Member
Yea, I agree with that entirely....
Like the nazis, these people play on people's very real grievances and turn that anger towards something else.
If you remember, after 9/11 there was a lot of very loud condemnation of this stuff by muslims all over. I have to say though, without sounding like an apologist for these shitbags, what we have done since then hasn't really done much to help the more moderate muslims who stand up to this bullshit.
Haul me to Heaven
New Member
Very true !