wrong, as is the normThe votes aren't there. The house can't pass the senate bill and the senate can't pass the house bill. Obama's monday proposal and the dog and pony show tomorrow are just for show - "look how hard I'm fighting." LOL
RIP Obama - Rest in Pieces!
Long live the party of HELL NO, WE WON'T TAKE IT ANYMORE!
talk to anyone on medicare and ask them how they like it. ask them who makes decisions about their healthcare. ask them if they'd like to drop their medicare and buy insurance from a corporation. ask anyone. and then when you get your answers, picture that plan expanded for the rest of the country, or at least the 30 mil who don't have any insurance at all.To those who advocate FORCED healthcare...where should our decisions end and the governments begin? What other choices of MINE and yours would you legislate away? Are you willing to incarcerate me, when I refuse to pay for something I don't want forced on me? How will that help me?
I'm betting nobody will answer my questions...unless insults are considered answers.
Looks like it's pointing more towards passing through reconciliation so they will only need 51 votes. Which is the best chance for a public option passing.It's dead in the water. Now we get to see how well Obama can spin as he tries to explain that the watered down bill that the voters will accept is really a great legislative victory.
They were at work...making money.I'm curious as to where all these deficit hawks were when Reagen tripled the debt or during the Bush years?
...and ignoring all the deficit spending that they agree with.They were at work...making money.
So the government lowers taxes, takes in more tax revenue, coupled with a situation where most people who want a job are working, making money, and you got a problem?...and ignoring all the deficit spending that they agree with.
talk to anyone on medicare and ask them how they like it. ask them who makes decisions about their healthcare. ask them if they'd like to drop their medicare and buy insurance from a corporation. ask anyone. and then when you get your answers, picture that plan expanded for the rest of the country, or at least the 30 mil who don't have any insurance at all.
i can't imagine having something (like healthcare) and hating everyone who didn't have the same thing. lining my pocket at their expense of lives.
you righties have bought a bill of goods from the insurance companies, and their puppets in Congress. the talking points are outright lies on the right.
and what is your objection to the individual mandate? are you without insurance? if so, how do you pay your medical bills?
and if you are insured then the individual mandate will not impact you at all.
that's pretty much the standard argument against the individual mandate. it is also a disengenuous argument used by the right to stimey insurance reform.First of all, I'm not a "righty" and I do not "hate everybody". Please do not subscribe my position to me.
I'm a person that doesn't believe in intiating force upon others.
Thank you for responding and keeping things civil.that's pretty much the standard argument against the individual mandate. it is also a disengenuous argument used by the right to stimey insurance reform.
i am inclined to agree with you, on principal. however, the mandate does minimize the free-loaders and it does help with the economics of insurance reform.
sometimes there are competing principals for a given issue and one needs to choose. i choose reform.
Income tax? Okay I'll play along.income tax.
i don't realy mind taxes. libraries and paved roads are pretty awesome. I also am kinda fond of nuclear attack submarines and medicare and norad and the coast guard (though if you live in a square state i can see how the coast guard would seem unnecesary) and even the FBI.Income tax? Okay I'll play along.
Do you go along with this tax voluntarily or out of fear? Be honest.
Do you believe involuntarily collecting from somebody is just?
Do you pay income taxes so the money will be used to arrest people that attempt to own their own bodies or do you conveniently forget that marijuana prohibition is funded by taxes which are extracted at the point of a gun?
So if you pay taxes voluntarily, YOU are funding prohibition, voluntarily.
If you pay involuntarily, you prove my point that government is first and foremost force.
Oh and by the way, off topic, but some of your plants shown in other threads are kick ass!
who said i pay anything?Income tax? Okay I'll play along.
Do you go along with this tax voluntarily or out of fear? Be honest.
Do you believe involuntarily collecting from somebody is just?
Do you pay income taxes so the money will be used to arrest people that attempt to own their own bodies or do you conveniently forget that marijuana prohibition is funded by taxes which are extracted at the point of a gun?
So if you pay taxes voluntarily, YOU are funding prohibition, voluntarily.
If you pay involuntarily, you prove my point that government is first and foremost force.
Oh and by the way, off topic, but some of your plants shown in other threads are kick ass!
How many people draw benefits from Medicare and how many people pay into it?talk to anyone on medicare and ask them how they like it. ask them who makes decisions about their healthcare. ask them if they'd like to drop their medicare and buy insurance from a corporation. ask anyone. and then when you get your answers, picture that plan expanded for the rest of the country, or at least the 30 mil who don't have any insurance at all.
i can't imagine having something (like healthcare) and hating everyone who didn't have the same thing. lining my pocket at their expense of lives.
you righties have bought a bill of goods from the insurance companies, and their puppets in Congress. the talking points are outright lies on the right.
and what is your objection to the individual mandate? are you without insurance? if so, how do you pay your medical bills?
and if you are insured then the individual mandate will not impact you at all.
nothing is perfect. if a mandate is needed to complete a better good, then compromise can be the best answer.Thank you for responding and keeping things civil.
"...and one needs to choose" Exactly, individuals, YOU for instance, SHOULD be able to make choices that YOU want.
You choose reform. I choose not to participate in reform, or make YOUR choices for you.
I have no objection to you making your choices in life. Why would you ask government to take away mine?
Please answer that question for me.
If you are inclined to agree with me on principle, I urge you not to abandon principle, embrace it. What is better than freedom of choice? You get what you want, I get what I want.
Why is it a disengenous argument, specifically? I'm not understanding your point of view. Gotta go for now, but very interested in how you can advocate choice for you, but not for me. What am I missing? Fill me in.
How many people draw benefits from Medicare and how many people pay into it?
Can you not see the Medicare is barely treading water when EVERYONE pays for it and only a handful draw benefits.
Yes, I understand that medicare is underfunded. i do not know how many people are receiving benefits each year. most of them pay into the program with premiums deducted from their social security checks. most workers pay into the program also.
And what is this garbage about "hating" people. Why is it everything with you Liberals is a personal attack?
"hating", bad choice of words on my part.
Many of us think health care needs serious reform, but why should we have our earnings confiscated to pay for someone else's free ride?
i personally am in favor of insurance reform, in any format that works. i believe the insurance companies have created market monopolies and they are doing what comes naturally and exactly what they are supposed to do - optimize profits. unfortunately, the cost in many cases is human life. the insurance industry in 2009 increased their profits by 5 billion dollars and decreased the coverage by 2.7 million subscribers. they made more money on less volume. many of the people who were cut out of plans died. this, to me, is a travesty.
And mandating insurance will never make it through the courts - it's a silly proposal.
sure, like taxes didn't make it.
I am for creating a Government group policy through a private carrier such as BCN or HAP that will allow individuals the right to collectively bargain. But, I will be damned if I'm going to work my ass off to pay for someone else to sit on their ass with their hand held out.
It sounds like I might like that also.
BTW, do you make an appreciable income? Would you be one of the people paying or one of the people receiving? I was poor most of my life and I never took a single dime I didn't earn.
OK asshole. this is none of your business. but i'm going to tell you anyway, because you are a rude mf and you won't like my answer.
iam a professional. i live in a rich suburb. i am self-employed. i buy health insurance on the individual market for myself and my wife. it costs $13,200 per year for a $5,000 deductible with no co-insurance. in other words, i need to spend $5000 per year, first, before insurance pays 1 cent. so if my insurance pays anything, that means i have spend $18,200 that year on healthcare.
i have been self-employed since the day i graduated from college. i have earned, on my own, everything i have.