Dual Areoponic Cabinet, Ceramic Metal Halide

DoeEyed

Well-Known Member
lol...Ok sorry, I won't say those dirty words. Got one more clone question for you. Ive heard people say you can clone a clone indefinately, without loss of vigor - and then I've heard people say, after the tenth time or so, they start to degrade. Do you know which is true?
 

cutman

Well-Known Member
I dont know if that true doe, never gone that far with clones, im on the 3th gen... of W.W, and N/L. But it seems to me that the genetic should not change. I mean its not like your introducing any other genetic to you clone to change it, to make it better of not. Now are you talking clones from a mum, or clones off of clones off of clones from a mum. hmm, the mum wont change really dont see how clones would either, even after cloning many times. i havent kept a mum i just clone off her once put her in flower and my next clone comes from her clones.
 

cruzer101

Well-Known Member
Yea, from what I understand you can clone as many times as you want. I have taken clones from clones 5 times. They were mostly the same but after looking at pics of the first grow and the last grow of those clones I noticed something.
Now dont take this for gospel but as I cloned I always kept the clones that were short and bushy. The last grow all the clones where short and bushy. Much more so then the first set of clones. So, I figure by keeping select clones I was able to bring out the phenotype I wanted out of her genes. Once I got the plant size perfected I got tired of the smoke and finished off the strain. (apollo)

Could be the person who told you the clones lost there "vigor" wasnt very selective in what they kept.
 

Integra21

Well-Known Member
What is said about it is that no mater how many times you clone a plant, the original age of the plant stays with them(since seed). And since over lllong periods of time, the plant ages like most things and wil gradually loose potency. I have seen ranges that are all over, but I think the original genetics is the base for how well it ages(just like everything else). I have see several people say genetics are only good for 1-2years, but Ive also seen claims of motheres still giving great clones/buds for up to 10 years. I think they are both right, bu showing how different genetics can wear out faster. I saw this first had with a local growers Piss strain(the one I grew outside). He has been growing it for about 7 years. And 7 years ago it was a lot better. It is still great herb today, but it had a lot more of a punch in its high years back. It is a very slow gradual decrease that I would say could only be noticed with passing of large amounts of time. Hope this helps answer some questions.
 

cruzer101

Well-Known Member
Temps 79 res 67°
PPMs 780 Ph 5.8

Flipped the lights on the first but just got around to changing the res. There on FF now.
I swapped the largest White Rhino for the smallest Afgan Kush. Man, shes diggin the light.















I havent done any training cause I was told this is a short plant.
If they get out of hand I got the screen there now.


The floro cab, Maybe I should call it the retard ward.










Her stalk is real thick but tiny leaves.





At least they are off those old flora nutes.
I got them on FF and calmag. Tossed is a little flora diamond nectar. Figured it couldnt hurt.
 

cutman

Well-Known Member
dude i would like to see how an auto would do in your hydro set up. how much more they would grow and quick. in that kind of set up. because hieght is a prob.... in you cab, it wouldnt be if they were all autos. not to mention in half the time. it might take more autos to get the amount as off of on plant .
 

DoeEyed

Well-Known Member
Define "short"? I think those top ladies are gonna get taller still, good thing you popped your screen in there! Three of them, at least, I don't think they heard they're supposed to be short. lol
 

cruzer101

Well-Known Member
dude i would like to see how an auto would do in your hydro set up. how much more they would grow and quick. in that kind of set up. because hieght is a prob.... in you cab, it wouldnt be if they were all autos. not to mention in half the time. it might take more autos to get the amount as off of on plant .
Yea, I have thought of that. Its a numbers thing. Although my county doesnt have a limit on how many I can grow theres a lot of shit going down now in regards to limits and stuff. They are tring to legalize it altogether but the state will supply and tax it. Im gonna wait and see what happens. Untill then Im tring to stay within the state limit.

Define "short"? I think those top ladies are gonna get taller still, good thing you popped your screen in there! Three of them, at least, I don't think they heard they're supposed to be short. lol
Hum, ya got me thinking again Doe.
Maybe they did but I just got stupid plants. That sounds more like my luck.
I did a bit more research and found the average size out doors is about 1.5 meters. I thought it was about 3 feet.
Looks like they will need a bend or two durring stretch. Good eye.

Thing that gets me is the size of the leaf. Real skinny like sativa but its suspose to be 100% Indica. I bought these clones form Plant Providers. They supply most of the dispensaries in my area with clones. Real nice gal, I gotta believe thats what I got. I checked other AK grows and the leaf looked skinny too. Weird.
 

cutman

Well-Known Member
now i thought that indica was the small skinny leaf. and the fat leaf was sativa. and ak is more indica than sativa. so i read that is. the hawaiian is more indica with skinny leives.
 

DoeEyed

Well-Known Member
now i thought that indica was the small skinny leaf. and the fat leaf was sativa. and ak is more indica than sativa. so i read that is. the hawaiian is more indica with skinny leives.
Nope, Sativas usually have the long, thin, finger-like leaves, and Indicas have the short, broad leaves.:peace: Well - usually, anyways. lol
 

SomeGuy

Well-Known Member
It all looks pretty great to me man! I think your flouro ones are making a good recovery. The others will still probably need some bending/tying back, but no big deal there. :)
 

Copycat

Well-Known Member
First of I would like to thank you for publishing your experiments, builds, grow tips and the all the other vast info you and everyone else has contributed in this thread.

It took me a week to read all 148 pages and take notes. Along with reading your other grow journals. I have a few questions and tips I would like to address.

1) on your first run I was confused about the length of time you ran clearex... I dont recall if you ran it for 8 hours or 24. I know in your second run you say 24. Maybe it was Earl that put out the 8 hour number and thats whats confusing me.

2)on your diagram of how you are going to set up a vertical cab grow you have the lights place vertically. I believe Earl mentioned that MH lights dont run great positioned that way and may burn out. I dont know if your CMH can be set up vertically and run like it should. I would hate to see you lose 2 lights, and suggest you investigate this because I dont know the answer.

3)on your curing rack/ and in place of the terrarium heaters you had in your cab, could you add a few packets of those things you find in shoe boxes that suck up the moisture and prevent mold and mildew? Would be a cheap solution if it works. And when you cure in brown paper bags you could toss one or two of those packets in to help dry. Maybe you could also move one of those terrarium heaters to your curing rack. This might dry your buds too fast though.

4)on your first cut ducting reflector could you just hammer small divots into it to disburse the light more indirectly or scratch up the reflective surface with some steal wool? I know you've painted them white since then but was just curious.

5)on your LED lights in the close up picture in the post where you question if you can fix it you are assuming there is a problem with the resistor or capacitor. That is not a capacitor in the picture you show. It is a BJT or MOSFET. Im willing to bet its not a problem with the resistor and instead you burnt out that BJT/MOSFET under the resistor. Most semiconductor and micro-controller companies (TI, LT, Microchip) will send you up to 3 devices for free as samples of 5. I suggest you look up the device name/serial on that BJT that you burnt out and request free samples from one of the Co. I listed. Or you can try Fry's or Radioshack for the BJT. If you cant find the exact BJT to match the one you burnt out get a BJT with similar current rating and the same beta value. You will probably have to look up the data sheet for the BJT you burnt out.

6)on your first run did you top any of those plants? I think you said you topped a few on the second run and that alone may have contributed to the higher yield and not just the change in lights and reflectors.

7)Is a metal reflector better then Mylar? 99cent stores sell Mylar balloons. I like to get the biggest ones they have and split them down the seems and use the inside non-colored or patterned side as a reflector. Probably the cheapest source of Mylar you will ever find.

8 ) on your aero set up; is your PVC sprinkler system mounted or just resting in the tub?

9)Is it beneficial to paint/tape red and blue strips on top of your seedling heat pad. I noticed the tray you have under your mothers is a red orange, and was wondering if the color was chosen for a reason. Maybe if you added red and blue strips to the remaining area in your grow cab that is still black you could get closer node spacing.

10)Ive never tried this, but was thinking that human saliva or spit kills most mold and mildew and might work, but Im unsure about the application because of the Ph of human saliva. I would worry about it burning the leaves, so maybe just a wipe with saliva, and then a wipe with a wet paper towel.

11)A simple solution to your humidifier causing water drops to form on the inside of the cab could be to place a thin cloth over the humidifier out jet, or to tape off the out jet partially.

12)on the tub you spray painted black Im not sure if you placed Mylar over the top and forgot to mention it or if thats a completely different tub. You probably just didnt mention it because your first run has its same set up, but if you forgot to put the Mylar on this time i just want to bring that to your attention.

13) For my spider mites i used ortho outdoor insect killer from walmart $4.50 (im in dirt out side). It killed them good but it left purple marks where the solution dried on the leaves and dried the leaves out a little. Been a week and no new spider mites, and the tiny beetles/ predator bugs lived through the spray, but my lady bugs flew away.

I hope at least one of these things can help your grow and hasnt wasted your time.
 

cruzer101

Well-Known Member
now i thought that indica was the small skinny leaf. and the fat leaf was sativa. and ak is more indica than sativa. so i read that is. the hawaiian is more indica with skinny leives.
Nope, Sativas usually have the long, thin, finger-like leaves, and Indicas have the short, broad leaves.:peace: Well - usually, anyways. lol
ok i had it backwards thanks mrs doe. :-)
Sounds like you guys got that figured out.

It all looks pretty great to me man! I think your flouro ones are making a good recovery. The others will still probably need some bending/tying back, but no big deal there. :)
Yea they were untill Doe jinxed me. (JK) Two had spidermites the small blueberry and one Rhino. I pulled them out and put them in dirt and set them in the yard. I figure Natrual predators may kill the mites and I can use for mothers. Or I just toss them but I am not going through another indoor grow with spidermites.

First of I would like to thank you for publishing your experiments, builds, grow tips and the all the other vast info you and everyone else has contributed in this thread.

It took me a week to read all 148 pages and take notes. Along with reading your other grow journals. I have a few questions and tips I would like to address.

1) on your first run I was confused about the length of time you ran clearex... I dont recall if you ran it for 8 hours or 24. I know in your second run you say 24. Maybe it was Earl that put out the 8 hour number and thats whats confusing me.

I ran clearex for 24 hours both times. That was the final flush. Another way to use clearex is durring a grow. Like when you switch frow veg to flower nutes. Thats when you want to run it for a shorter amount of time like 8 to 16 hours. But when you add nutes again, be sure to go real light like 1/4 strength for the first week because the plants will be real hungry and too much nutrients will burn them.

2)on your diagram of how you are going to set up a vertical cab grow you have the lights place vertically. I believe Earl mentioned that MH lights dont run great positioned that way and may burn out. I dont know if your CMH can be set up vertically and run like it should. I would hate to see you lose 2 lights, and suggest you investigate this because I dont know the answer.

I found when I purchase a bulb they have horizontial hang and vertical hang bulbs. The CMH I got is designed to go horizontal. The argosun can be mounted both ways. Thats what I plan to use. (once my greenhouse is done)

3)on your curing rack/ and in place of the terrarium heaters you had in your cab, could you add a few packets of those things you find in shoe boxes that suck up the moisture and prevent mold and mildew? Would be a cheap solution if it works. And when you cure in brown paper bags you could toss one or two of those packets in to help dry. Maybe you could also move one of those terrarium heaters to your curing rack. This might dry your buds too fast though.

Yea those silicon packs may work very well. I have only seen small ones and not in quanity but I assume they could be ordered. I have one of my 4" fans under the buds blowing on an angle so its not right on them. I have also wadded up newspaper in balls and put them in there and they helped.


4)on your first cut ducting reflector could you just hammer small divots into it to disburse the light more indirectly or scratch up the reflective surface with some steal wool? I know you've painted them white since then but was just curious.

I think if you go floros a metal reflector will be fine. I have seen journal where there was no burn. However with a HID lighting it should be painted wight or rippeled like you sugguested.

5)on your LED lights in the close up picture in the post where you question if you can fix it you are assuming there is a problem with the resistor or capacitor. That is not a capacitor in the picture you show. It is a BJT or MOSFET. Im willing to bet its not a problem with the resistor and instead you burnt out that BJT/MOSFET under the resistor. Most semiconductor and micro-controller companies (TI, LT, Microchip) will send you up to 3 devices for free as samples of 5. I suggest you look up the device name/serial on that BJT that you burnt out and request free samples from one of the Co. I listed. Or you can try Fry's or Radioshack for the BJT. If you cant find the exact BJT to match the one you burnt out get a BJT with similar current rating and the same beta value. You will probably have to look up the data sheet for the BJT you burnt out.

Thats some good info, I will do that. Thank you.

6)on your first run did you top any of those plants? I think you said you topped a few on the second run and that alone may have contributed to the higher yield and not just the change in lights and reflectors.

Yes, I just went back and checked. I topped them about a week before I went 12/12

7)Is a metal reflector better then Mylar? 99cent stores sell Mylar balloons. I like to get the biggest ones they have and split them down the seems and use the inside non-colored or patterned side as a reflector. Probably the cheapest source of Mylar you will ever find.

I love your ideas. Im not sure of the cost of ballons but you can get mylar at greentrees for pretty cheap. 13.42 plus shipping for 25 feet of the thin stuff. link

8 ) on your aero set up; is your PVC sprinkler system mounted or just resting in the tub?

It rests on a lip, I didnt glue it either and that was a good idea cause I found I like to twist the pipe and adjust the sprinklers when the root system is small.

9)Is it beneficial to paint/tape red and blue strips on top of your seedling heat pad. I noticed the tray you have under your mothers is a red orange, and was wondering if the color was chosen for a reason. Maybe if you added red and blue strips to the remaining area in your grow cab that is still black you could get closer node spacing.

I never thought of the color of the tray. I just had a couple red ones from years ago. You have a good point, red would reflect all the colors of the spectrum a plant would use as opposed to another color wouldnt it.

10)Ive never tried this, but was thinking that human saliva or spit kills most mold and mildew and might work, but Im unsure about the application because of the Ph of human saliva. I would worry about it burning the leaves, so maybe just a wipe with saliva, and then a wipe with a wet paper towel.

Hum, interesting. I like my girls but I dont think I want to lick them.

11)A simple solution to your humidifier causing water drops to form on the inside of the cab could be to place a thin cloth over the humidifier out jet, or to tape off the out jet partially.

So basiclly limit the output huh? Now theres an idea.


12)on the tub you spray painted black Im not sure if you placed Mylar over the top and forgot to mention it or if thats a completely different tub. You probably just didnt mention it because your first run has its same set up, but if you forgot to put the Mylar on this time i just want to bring that to your attention.

Well, I spray painted both of them black now. The HID cab is mylar but I ran out so I used reflective insulation on the floro cab top of the tub.

13) For my spider mites i used ortho outdoor insect killer from walmart $4.50 (im in dirt out side). It killed them good but it left purple marks where the solution dried on the leaves and dried the leaves out a little. Been a week and no new spider mites, and the tiny beetles/ predator bugs lived through the spray, but my lady bugs flew away.

Good to know, I plan on getting some ladybugs for the greenhouse and im sure at some point I will have to deal with spidermites.


I hope at least one of these things can help your grow and hasnt wasted your time.
Not at all, I share my grows with people like you to get ideas and feedback.
You certainly have given me useful information as well as something to think about.

Thanks for taking the time to go over the whole journal.
 

cruzer101

Well-Known Member
Temps 82 res 74°
PPMs 500 PH 6.0

Chiller is acting up again. Something has got to be wrong. It raises the room temp by 10 to 15° and only keeps the res at 68 when the ambient temps are about the same. This will not work this summer.

The girls are out drinkin all night and stretchen there legs. They went through 2 gallons last night. I topped off with nutes.
Got the ph right the first try. Its nice when that happens.

Heres what I got left in the floro cab.
I figure I dont have enough to hassle with a screen, Gonna try a weight.





CMH cab
Here, I need the screen.










I started a little training.




Gonna pretty much let these go. Just train to the outside a bit.

The root system on the AK is more of a ball the the previous strains I have grown so I figure it will imitate the root system somewhat. Hell I hope so.
 

DoeEyed

Well-Known Member
Looking good, cruzer. Those girls are really bushing out, eh? I like the weight idea - you come up with some of the most clever solutions I've seen here.
 

cutman

Well-Known Member
hey bud nice. ladys look good and healthy now. i harvested some autos yesterday and planted some more, going to take 3 more this week end. and plant again. sure am glad to see some of these coming out now. along with the other finishing up. the white widow, and northern lights,and lemon skunk, is in jars. ill get a wait for yawl in about a week. by then ill be putting autos on the scale and into jars. I figure for three regular plants, i would do 6 autos, for the wait tests. to see witch is more. its going to be close. Then add in the time it took for all.
 
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