USA goes to WAR with mexico, ........

[Padawanbater2]

So it would seem 99% of the people posting in this thread agree it's a big problem.

Why isn't anyone doing anything about it?

How bout we focus on answering that question?

 

[Johnny Retro]

..not doing anything about it? thats what this thread IS about. ARIZONA!

 

[UncleBuck]

I see that while I have been sleeping, UB has been "really" schooling us all.
I was lost, but now am found.
When the government announced years ago that figure as having been 12 million, you thought what UB?.....that it had DECREASED since then?
Do you suppose they have since opted to join the census as well?
And let's see, with all of these "sanctuary" cities, do you suppose it feasible that they are just NOT being counted?
For those non-sanctuary cities who impose a slap on the wrist and throw them back into our society, do you take into account how many continue their course of bringing the REST of their family and friends in?

UB, you be lost, confused and notoriously dull.
I could cite from numerous sources (government included)...but you have shown us all that statistics mean zilch to you....not to mention the suffering of the American native.

so, basically what you are saying is that you have no evidence? that you have nothing to back up the bogus claim you made? that does not surprise me in the least.

you are not the only one, though. Governor Bruja did the same just the other day, calling the majority of illegals mules....she wasn't able to stand behind that one for long! it is comical watching your side cite fake statistics or just make them up entirely to support your case. it is like watching a dog chase its tail.

by the way, medical grower here. not much need to swing hammers anymore unless i need spending money

 

[Mindmelted]

amazing everybody seems to be a MM USER seems and smells like BS...

 

[undertheice]

How bout we focus on answering that question?

the answer is to simply enforce the laws that are already on the books and to pass more stringent regulation to penalize u.s. companies that hire illegals at below market wages. coupled with a more business friendly taxation strategy and a restructuring of the welfare state that does not penalize recipients for entering into the workforce at below poverty level wages, those steps alone would go a long way toward reducing the impact of illegal immigration on our country. we will never completely eradicate the problem, but we must allow our own people first chance at all american jobs and provide the incentive for them to seek employment.

what we need is a reversal of our trend toward entitlements. we must remember that the luxuries we take for granted are only accessible because of someone's labors and that we are not all entitled to their easy availability. we have slipped into the trap of believing that governmental force is the answer to all our woes and are caught under the thumb of a government that seems to believe that a parental role is its proper place. we seek leaders for elected office instead of employees and equals. we abdicate the personal responsibility for our lives in favor of nanny state regulation. we expect the state to find our answers instead of muddling through to find those answers for ourselves. this nation was designed to foster a sense of self-reliance and self-determination, but we have allowed that ideal to slip from our grasp. we must remember that along with all of the wonderful rights our nation was designed to protect is the right to fail and that to enjoy all those rights we must be willing to take responsibility for the outcome of their exercise.

the answer cannot be found in any one action. all of these problems are interrelated and have their genesis in the degradation of our national ethos. we must become better than we are and that means we must be willing to endure the hardships that success demands. unless we are willing to take that road, we cannot expect our neighbors to set foot on it and they will always find a way to take advantage of the easy path that we provide.

 

[UncleBuck]

the answer is to simply enforce the laws that are already on the books and to pass more stringent regulation to penalize u.s. companies that hire illegals at below market wages. coupled with a more business friendly taxation strategy and a restructuring of the welfare state that does not penalize recipients for entering into the workforce at below poverty level wages, those steps alone would go a long way toward reducing the impact of illegal immigration on our country. we will never completely eradicate the problem, but we must allow our own people first chance at all american jobs and provide the incentive for them to seek employment.

what we need is a reversal of our trend toward entitlements. we must remember that the luxuries we take for granted are only accessible because of someone's labors and that we are not all entitled to their easy availability. we have slipped into the trap of believing that governmental force is the answer to all our woes and are caught under the thumb of a government that seems to believe that a parental role is its proper place. we seek leaders for elected office instead of employees and equals. we abdicate the personal responsibility for our lives in favor of nanny state regulation. we expect the state to find our answers instead of muddling through to find those answers for ourselves. this nation was designed to foster a sense of self-reliance and self-determination, but we have allowed that ideal to slip from our grasp. we must remember that along with all of the wonderful rights our nation was designed to protect is the right to fail and that to enjoy all those rights we must be willing to take responsibility for the outcome of their exercise.

the answer cannot be found in any one action. all of these problems are interrelated and have their genesis in the degradation of our national ethos. we must become better than we are and that means we must be willing to endure the hardships that success demands. unless we are willing to take that road, we cannot expect our neighbors to set foot on it and they will always find a way to take advantage of the easy path that we provide.

so, buried under all that fluff i hear: border enforcement, penalize/regulate employers, restructure tax to benefit business. all fine and dandy, all things you need GOVERNMENT to do.

then we get into the whole: we need to lay off the entitlements, get rid of the nanny state, more government is not the answer!

does anyone else here see the complete irony?

 

[undertheice]

so, buried under all that fluff i hear: border enforcement, penalize/regulate employers, restructure tax to benefit business. all fine and dandy, all things you need GOVERNMENT to do.
then we get into the whole: we need to lay off the entitlements, get rid of the nanny state, more government is not the answer!
does anyone else here see the complete irony?

i'm not so naive as to believe that government does not have a place in our lives. its duty is the protection of the rights of the people and some interference is necessary for that protection. all those things you claim we need government to do come under that heading, they are things that government is already doing and needs to do correctly for a change. those entitlements that government hands out to garner the support of a burdened population are not within the purview of the state. they encompass the theft of property in the name of wealth redistribution, social engineering and the blatant take over of industry and the finances of the private sector. there is no irony here, only the sad reality that you and so many others have lost sight of government's proper place in the order of things.

 

[UncleBuck]

i'm not so naive as to believe that government does not have a place in our lives. its duty is the protection of the rights of the people and some interference is necessary for that protection. all those things you claim we need government to do come under that heading, they are things that government is already doing and needs to do correctly for a change. those entitlements that government hands out to garner the support of a burdened population are not within the purview of the state. they encompass the theft of property in the name of wealth redistribution, social engineering and the blatant take over of industry and the finances of the private sector. there is no irony here, only the sad reality that you and so many others have lost sight of government's proper place in the order of things.

there is A LOT of irony here.

what you call 'wealth redistribution' or 'social engineering' or ' a take over of the private sector' or 'hand outs to garner votes' are exactly what i would call the 'some interference' which is needed to protect the most basic and inalienable rights of the citizenry: life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

i guess, in the uti world, the poor starve, the old get sick and die, and the challenged are discarded. no SS, no medicare, no LTD, nothing. tell me if i have that right or if you do support some entitlements. i'd be interested in knowing.

 

[undertheice]

i'd be interested in knowing.

no, you are not interested in knowing anything that doesn't jibe with your agenda. it's all been said a thousand times before and what you consider rights are the very entitlements that are bankrupting this country and most of europe, perverting the very concept of individualism for the sake of the hungry mob. you take the most extreme cases and treat them as the norm, all the while ignoring the waste and corruption engendered by those do-nothing social programs you so adore. all of your answers amount to nothing more than robbing peter to pay paul, short term solutions that satisfy no one and only serve to breed ever more jealousy and indignation. you have no belief in any charity that is not enforced at gunpoint and no faith in human virtues. you bend to the will of the mob and see mediocrity as the best that man has to offer. in short, you lack the courage of what few convictions you have managed to maintain and have no vision for the future beyond next week.

but don't worry, your company is legion. even the most ardent conservative seems willing to shelve his sense of personal responsibility for the illusions of comfort and security. i know perfectly well that my cause is a lost one, but i will continue to stand against the herd mentality that consumes all around me. i don't continue because of any special bravery or even because i do have the courage of my convictions. i'm simply too close to death to abandon the bits of knowledge and the insights i have gained during my life. eventually the mob will win out and darkness will descend, but there will always be someone that wants to be more than just another cog in the machine.

i imagine you'll merely scoff at this bit of lavender tinted prose, but i'm far too high to care and just another anonymous ghost floating within the web.

 

[Babs34]

so, basically what you are saying is that you have no evidence? that you have nothing to back up the bogus claim you made? that does not surprise me in the least.

you are not the only one, though. Governor Bruja did the same just the other day, calling the majority of illegals mules....she wasn't able to stand behind that one for long! it is comical watching your side cite fake statistics or just make them up entirely to support your case. it is like watching a dog chase its tail.

by the way, medical grower here. not much need to swing hammers anymore unless i need spending money

Where's the EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK face when I need one?

 

[Mindmelted]

 

[Babs34]

no, you are not interested in knowing anything that doesn't jibe with your agenda. it's all been said a thousand times before and what you consider rights are the very entitlements that are bankrupting this country and most of europe, perverting the very concept of individualism for the sake of the hungry mob. you take the most extreme cases and treat them as the norm, all the while ignoring the waste and corruption engendered by those do-nothing social programs you so adore. all of your answers amount to nothing more than robbing peter to pay paul, short term solutions that satisfy no one and only serve to breed ever more jealousy and indignation. you have no belief in any charity that is not enforced at gunpoint and no faith in human virtues. you bend to the will of the mob and see mediocrity as the best that man has to offer. in short, you lack the courage of what few convictions you have managed to maintain and have no vision for the future beyond next week.

but don't worry, your company is legion. even the most ardent conservative seems willing to shelve his sense of personal responsibility for the illusions of comfort and security. i know perfectly well that my cause is a lost one, but i will continue to stand against the herd mentality that consumes all around me. i don't continue because of any special bravery or even because i do have the courage of my convictions. i'm simply too close to death to abandon the bits of knowledge and the insights i have gained during my life. eventually the mob will win out and darkness will descend, but there will always be someone that wants to be more than just another cog in the machine.

i imagine you'll merely scoff at this bit of lavender tinted prose, but i'm far too high to care and just another anonymous ghost floating within the web.

My last post being said......this woman rocks.
UB is at a loss, LOL.......

 

[undertheice]

My last post being said......this woman rocks.

i should warn you that this woman is male.

UB is at a loss, LOL.......

i doubt that buck is "at a loss", he is most likely taking a break from the futility of on line debate. i'm sure he will return to try and justify his untenable position and i may even still be around to continue the fun and games. there is no victory in having the last word. it is merely a sign that one has less to occupy one's time. having nothing better to do than engage in such meaningless drivel on a saturday evening is a dubious distinction at best.

 

[Padawanbater2]

Why's it always gotta turn into a circle jerk?

 

[Babs34]

Ooops, apologies, didn't mean to misconstrue the gender....just always assumed via the avatar.
In truth, I was making fun of myself. I am a woman, as I'm sure is evident, .

We women are notorious for rambling and I confess I'm prone to rambling, depending on the day.

I agree. There is no victory in having the last word. I would more appropriately define that as being on a power trip. When attempting to associate with people who refuse to see anything other than what justifies their own means, I confess, I tend to resort to cynicism at times.

P, circle jerking? Ick, perish the thought........no offense to you.
Mind you, you have been adamantly reconciled with displaying such acts. Has something changed over the course of the last two months to change your perception of others?

If you were to ever be serious concerning the topic at hand, minus the lashings, I would more appropriately, and respectfully, address you in kind.

As for tonight, I am officially inebriated (lightweight that I am) and going to bed.

 

[Padawanbater2]

P, circle jerking? Ick, perish the thought........no offense to you.
Mind you, you have been adamantly reconciled with displaying such acts. Has something changed over the course of the last two months to change your perception of others?

If you were to ever be serious concerning the topic at hand, minus the lashings, I would more appropriately, and respectfully, address you in kind.

As for tonight, I am officially inebriated (lightweight that I am) and going to bed.

I just realized there's no point in arguing with people over the internet. It's a waste of time and it gets us all nowhere. I've had my fill I guess.

I don't really have an opinion about illegal immigration. Just that it's a problem and none of our politicians want to touch it because it's one of those controversial topics. I think it's wrong for border agents to kill people trying to enter the country illegally, but I think it's wrong for the state to kill a citizen via capital punishment, so that opinion might just be a little biased. I'm against killing in just about every instance excluding self defense. I think the drug war is the main reason for the violence south of the border. That too is one of those topics our politicians won't touch. All they know is "drugs are bad - the war on drugs must be good, so I have to support the war on drugs, otherwise I'll look like (and my opponents will portray) I support drugs!". Only a few I can count on one hand bring the science into it and destroy the propaganda with cold hard facts. And that's how these kinds of issues go unanswered year by year... It's a broken system nobody wants to fix because they'd rather keep their seat in whatever government position they occupy. Why risk it? What's the incentive?

 

[bcbong92]

Where did this become a thread on killing muslims? I don't advocate "killing" any one. In the same breath, I will realisticaly acknowledge the brutal realities of war.
Thankfully, I am not stuck between a rock and a hard stone to whip out my weapon at this juncture............you have the American armed forces to thank for that BTW.
Asking me what good the millitary has done since WW2 is rhetorical.

----------------------newsflash--------------------------------
Muslims generally allied with the Nazis during World War II (and Hajj Amin al-Husseini, the Mufti of Jerusalem, was a major player in the planning of the Holocaust), and actual neo-Nazi groups like the Aryan Nations are pro-Muslim.
Adolf Hitler / Nazis hated Arabs as an inferior “race”, yet praised Islam in its ‘war like’ TOTALITARIAN ideology

He saw them as a great tool to be used against the Jews.
http://books.google.com/books?id=xh4m-OMrhJUC&pg=PA85

SPLCenter.org: The Swastika and the Crescent, Although he loathed Arabs (he once described them as “lacquered half-apes who ought to be whipped“), Hitler understood that he and the Mufti shared the same rivals…

Actually I live in Canada so I dont have the American Armed Forces to thank for anything. And yes I think we all know the muslims (and nazis) and jews don't get along, but that problems gonna go on forever, so getting involved and picking sides just stirs up more shit.

 

[Antidisestablishmentarian]

Sure you do! If it wasn't for our blundering army, you'd be American!

 

[Babs34]

I just realized there's no point in arguing with people over the internet. It's a waste of time and it gets us all nowhere. I've had my fill I guess.

I don't really have an opinion about illegal immigration. Just that it's a problem and none of our politicians want to touch it because it's one of those controversial topics. I think it's wrong for border agents to kill people trying to enter the country illegally, but I think it's wrong for the state to kill a citizen via capital punishment, so that opinion might just be a little biased. I'm against killing in just about every instance excluding self defense. I think the drug war is the main reason for the violence south of the border. That too is one of those topics our politicians won't touch. All they know is "drugs are bad - the war on drugs must be good, so I have to support the war on drugs, otherwise I'll look like (and my opponents will portray) I support drugs!". Only a few I can count on one hand bring the science into it and destroy the propaganda with cold hard facts. And that's how these kinds of issues go unanswered year by year... It's a broken system nobody wants to fix because they'd rather keep their seat in whatever government position they occupy. Why risk it? What's the incentive?

I won't argue with you there. To "argue" any differences is to never come to a conclusion, an extreme waste of time.
On a broader scope, I do see so many problematic situations that would arise if the current laws are not enforced SOON. What angers me is if they "had" been enforced all along, we wouldn't have to address the larger problems that have since stemmed because of government's irresponsible decision to choose to ignore this again and again. I even question if it is deliberate on their part.
The chaos that repetitiously arises are catastrophic events unfolding before our eyes. And where is our current president taking a stance on any of this? I can't even really say for sure. I only know that Hillary Clinton is announcing, on his behalf, that he will be suing the state of Arizona. Some may have no problem with the fact that she announces this to another nation prior to "her own"....but I do. It should be obvious that you don't do something so incredibly stupid like that. This was once a nation that represented "United we stand, Divided we Fall."

That means something, simple as it looks in black and white.
A very simple thing I would like to point out is that if you bring into your society every race, every culture and every religion...war and chaos are sure to follow. You can blame religion for the world's problems, but the truth is if religion didn't exist, mankind would surely find discord on one level or another. Knowing that, you go to the next step which is to define how you avoid conflict between one another due to differences.
Where some societies can come together and find common ground, others simply will NEVER EVER reach a point of even beginning to meet an idea of relating to each other, let alone coming to a logical solution.

This is where so many people get lost and confused.
We are sitting here arguing about the "poor" Mexicans and how we are to take on their economic crisis as our own. If government had been doing their job, they would have enforced our immigration laws. They are not "racist"...they exist for a damn good reason. Sure.......MANY would LOVE to live in America, but let's be realistic, they just can't...and they just can't come here and drop themselves on our soil and say, "How dare you not take care of us?"

Don't get me wrong.....I DO feel for their hardships, but I am HUMAN. I feel for mine as well. Words don't describe what I feel every time I leave my house. I can't drive within a few mile radius without witnessing people living on the streets. I see the desperation in their eyes. It's depressing and it's WRONG that it is continuing to increase all throughout America. There is NO excuse for this....NONE. Only ten years ago, I rarely, if ever witnessed this in my surroundings......and I live in a city which would be considered predominately wealthy people. People who were once middle class are living in shelters, unable to find employment. This is PATHETIC......this is NOT America, or is it? Look at what we have become and in such a short period of time at that.

I also believe there is no excuse whatsoever for ANY single person in this ENTIRE WORLD to ever go hungry!!! How ridiculous is that? We can't come up with a solution to that? EVEN I COULD tackle that given time to properly address.
But before you take on the challenge of feeding the world, you must first feed yourselves, otherwise it's counterproductive to even attempt to take on such a challenge.
I don't know what I would suggest as an immediate step in solving this crisis on the border, but I will say that I find it despicable that the only word I've received from my president is that he has intentions to SUE a state for simply enforcing written law, a law that necessarily MUST be put into effect. Should we be killing them? Well, no...of course not. But it is the fault of our government that it has reached this point of despair.
Were it common knowledge that you just DON'T even attempt to cross America's borders illegally, people would not be entertaining so freely to just dismiss our law as a joke, thus making this entire country appear to the world as inept.
Australia has the right idea and we should be more like them with how we treat immigration. When muslims tried to even implicate their need for sharia law, the prime minister handled it quickly and WISELY. He put his foot down and said, NO, and all his words that followed were not of a racist, but a man who saw the danger of being "too" accepting....no drama in Australia currently as far as I know. But I will use this as an example of what happens when you make decisions based on "tolerance."
Four days after he set foot in Australia, the rape spree began. And during his sexual assault trial in a New South Wales courtroom, the Pakistani man began to berate one of his tearful 14-year-old victims because she had the temerity to shake her head at his testimony.

But she had every reason to express her disgust. After taking an oath on the Qur’an, the man – known only as MSK – told the court he had committed four attacks on girls as young as 13 because they had no right to say “no.” They were not covering their face or wearing a headscarf, and therefore, the rapist proclaimed: “I’m not doing anything wrong.”


FrontPage Magazine - Muslim Gang Rapes and the Aussie Riots
If you take issue with the source, feel free to do your own google.

This isn't about racism. People with such varied cultures simply will not co-exist peacefully....FACT. America has been heading downhill fast since the 80's....all in the name of "acceptance." The solution to that seems simple enough.
We did not make good decisions in this country for far too long now. It's past time government step up to the plate, otherwise "the people" are going to get mad as hell (they already are) and chaos will without doubt follow.

What I would like to see is Obama get on the ball and at minimum, address this nation with whether or not he has "officially" decided to fight his own state, the country in which he is the president. I don't see how a president can just snap his fingers and change a law...a law that represents providing the people a somewhat safe haven and opportunities to prosper vs. living in despair.

This is where UB comes in ranting about how wonderful they are as people, etc, etc.....while in the same breath saying "The American people?"...."what about them?" He/she doesn't even for a tenth of a second take into consideration harsh realities taking place in the United States of America......the land where "everyone wishes to be." You can't logically rationalize why this country should oversee their own people at the cost of our poor neighbors, sorry....wrong.

Other countries are losing respect for us. Other countries are in fear because we are so haphazardly misplacing what was once what they valued because of the "American way." Ask yourself WHY any country would take issue with us enforcing our borders? The answer is so simple and the problem is shockingly not being acknowledged.

There doesn't need to be "discussion" on WHAT to do. There needs to be IMMEDIATE discussion on HOW to do it. We have numerous problems already to tackle just for not having enforced our laws already.

Obama needs to have the talk with the mexican president. I only have heard of mexico possibly suing Arizona....but if this is true, and if Obama supports this, or even does not take a strong stance AGAINST it........one thing is for certain. All hell will break loose.

Obama must make the mexican president ACCOUNTABLE for allowing and encouraging their migrating here. He must make it known that his people are the responsibility of Mexico, not the USA, to resolve their own current tragedies at hand.

We have got to stop placing blame on any thing other than poor government. The decisions being made, or therefore lack of, are KILLING us....literally. We are at the point of no return if a 180 on behalf of our president doesn't take place, and soon...... you can forever say good-bye to any kind of peace.
This president is selling us down the river. He will do nothing more than attempt to appease every leader, every nation and in the end, make slaves of us all.

 

[bcbong92]

Sure you do! If it wasn't for our blundering army, you'd be American!

Well thank god for that haha, besides Canada had an army back then (well technically it was the English Army)