Don't vote No. Vote YES! And read this to get the truth about Prop 19 http://legalizemarijuana.tumblr.com/
Vote NO on prop 19... (great read for anyone that will be voting in november in cali)
- Thread starter sm0keyrich510
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ford442
Well-Known Member
Marc Emery -
http://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/content/2010/06/05/Why-You-Should-Vote-YES-California-Control-Tax-Cannabis-Initiative
Tom Ammiano -
http://blog.norml.org/2010/07/01/california-assemblyman-explains-why-he-is-voting-yes-on-prop-19/
Huffington Post -
http://blog.norml.org/2010/07/14/i-gots-mine-dispensary-owners-against-marijuana-legalization/
Russ Belville -
http://blog.norml.org/2010/07/19/californias-prop-19-a-word-for-word-analysis/
http://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/content/2010/06/05/Why-You-Should-Vote-YES-California-Control-Tax-Cannabis-Initiative
Tom Ammiano -
http://blog.norml.org/2010/07/01/california-assemblyman-explains-why-he-is-voting-yes-on-prop-19/
Huffington Post -
http://blog.norml.org/2010/07/14/i-gots-mine-dispensary-owners-against-marijuana-legalization/
Russ Belville -
http://blog.norml.org/2010/07/19/californias-prop-19-a-word-for-word-analysis/
SouthernGanja
Active Member
The linked article in the OP is a compelling collection of false-facts (Such as never being able to change a law. Ever. [see amendments 18 & 21]. It also fails to take judicial opinions/decisions into account, both prior and future. )
It's only compelling if you can stand reading assumptions like: "This will force many patients to resort to buying instead of growing their own medicine, because of the inconvenience caused by producing multiple grows a year rather than growing a year’s supply of medicine at one time, as many patients currently do outdoors. And growing indoors—which typically requires special grow lights, an increase in hydro use, and a lot of time and attention—is a comparatively expensive endeavor." LOL! That made me giggle.
There are plenty of articles and opinions for both sides of the argument that make that wordy article/blog look silly and amateurish.
Just sayin.
It's only compelling if you can stand reading assumptions like: "This will force many patients to resort to buying instead of growing their own medicine, because of the inconvenience caused by producing multiple grows a year rather than growing a year’s supply of medicine at one time, as many patients currently do outdoors. And growing indoors—which typically requires special grow lights, an increase in hydro use, and a lot of time and attention—is a comparatively expensive endeavor." LOL! That made me giggle.
There are plenty of articles and opinions for both sides of the argument that make that wordy article/blog look silly and amateurish.
Just sayin.
ford442
Well-Known Member
yes.. i really don't think that medical patients are going to see any difference except that there will be more places to acquire medicine and the price will be lower.. if you have a garden larger than 5x5 right now then you would need to show authorities your prescription papers - i do not think that will change with prop 19 - you will still simply need to rely on your doctor's recommendation stating that you require a certain amount.. the supreme court of california supports doctors' recommended dosage for patients.. prop 19 in no way overrides prop 215..
if i had something to lose from legalization i would be seriously considering how to work the legitimate side of the business right now - not roaming forums and blogs trying to slow the process down because it won't work - full legalization is coming, so prepare for what is in store - corporate industrialization, more clinical medicinal usage, large scale hemp farming, commercial establishments, licensed home grow ops.. there will be tons of room for the people who grow under the table now to have good jobs working with the plant that they love..
i wonder what tens of billions of dollars going back into the california economy looks like...?
if i had something to lose from legalization i would be seriously considering how to work the legitimate side of the business right now - not roaming forums and blogs trying to slow the process down because it won't work - full legalization is coming, so prepare for what is in store - corporate industrialization, more clinical medicinal usage, large scale hemp farming, commercial establishments, licensed home grow ops.. there will be tons of room for the people who grow under the table now to have good jobs working with the plant that they love..
i wonder what tens of billions of dollars going back into the california economy looks like...?
The shallowness of the OP's link left me with more questions than answers, mostly because it was all prefabricated bullshit that made very little sense, at all! Please don't insult my intelligence - was I suppoed to follow along and beleive that string of illogical fantasy? The only way you could fall for that is if you are as paranoid as the author and follow him down the rabbit hole (ala "Alice in Wonderland").
First of all, let's get that "1 Ounce" thing out of the way! A little bit of knowledge is, indeed, a dangerous thing. The way the "Anti Prop 19" link was written, it appears that "adults" would only be allowed to posses 1 ounce of dried cannabis - even though they would be allowed to grow in an area of 25 square feet. Those numbers didn't make sense to me when I read the full text of the initiative - so I did a little reshearch of my own, at a "Pro Prop 19" website. That "1 Ounce" figure is very misleading, it's not the maximum you would be allowed to posses at all! In fact it is the minimum that a "Dry City" would be allowed to "Restrict" you to. Let me explain a little more, each individual city and county in the State of California would have the expressed right to control most all facets of how they would handle the legalization of marijuana, including taxation, distribution, sales control, specific possesion details, etc. That's up to, and including, maintaining a complete prohibition (the way it is now). That is what I mean by the term "Dry City", one that maintains a complete prohibition against marijuana. Even in a "Dry City", where possesion and sale of marijuana would still be prohibited, the State Law would supercede and allow any "legal" adult to carry "Up to 1 ounce" of marijuana on their person. There appears to be no limit to the size of the "Stash" you could have in a "Pot-Freindly" city - but that remains to be seen!
Can anyone deny that Marc Emory is the Poster Boy for "World Wide Acceptance for Marijuana"? Smoking, growing, whatever! His philosophy is "Give it back to the people"! He doesn't pull any punches about gready "Commercial Growers", Cartels and "Street Sales Organizations" being against Prop 19. The following is an excerpt from one of his articles about legalization, he is explaining that are 3 groupes who are opposed to Prop 19 and why they are opposed. You can find the whole article here http://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/co...bis-Initiative :
The first group is the police and prison industry, represented by their unions and spokespeople. These are the system exploiters who have profited greatly and built power bases at the expense of the people. These are our archenemies, people who think its okay making a buck by arresting, strip-searching, incarcerating, harassing, and jailing ordinary cannabis consumer and home-growers. They are destroying our constitutional freedoms, seizing our kids, and forcing the cost of marijuana up to immoral prices as part of their love affair with prohibition.
The second group includes the cartels, thugs, street gangs, large commercial growers, commercial medical marijuana growers and their dependents that make exploitative profits taking full advantage of prohibition-inflated prices. They correctly surmise that when every adult in California can make all the homegrown cannabis an individual can produce in 25 square feet, the need for them and their rip-off prices evaporates. Like, gone, baby gone. And with home grows legal, police will target the exploiter large scale grows. Who needs their $350- to $450-per-ounce cannabis when we can all safely and legally grow our own weed at home for about $12.50 an ounce?
The third group is the so-called old guard of the cannabis or medical marijuana movement. The wonderful Proposition-215 pioneer Denis Peron is one, but there are many others. Their opposition is entirely trivial and irrational. It stems from a professional jealousy that a successful, compassionate man like Richard Lee (who has provided over a million dollars of his well-earned money to support this initiative) is doing it without their blessing. No one asked Dennis Peron's permission. Dennis is a hero to the pot movement and has done a great deal to provide marijuana to medical users, but it seems he feels the world of activism has passed him by because it has, and he's jealous.
I'm not a "Commercial Grower" and I don't see any reason for me, or anyone else, to fall for this kind of "Scare Tactics" bullshit spread around by selfish, money hungry growers who are affraid of the compitition that a "Free Market" would bring. It's not about some Ya-hoo who is affraid of Philip Morris - it's about me, and anybody who feels like it, growing our own - legally!
Californians - vote "Yes on Prop 19!".
First of all, let's get that "1 Ounce" thing out of the way! A little bit of knowledge is, indeed, a dangerous thing. The way the "Anti Prop 19" link was written, it appears that "adults" would only be allowed to posses 1 ounce of dried cannabis - even though they would be allowed to grow in an area of 25 square feet. Those numbers didn't make sense to me when I read the full text of the initiative - so I did a little reshearch of my own, at a "Pro Prop 19" website. That "1 Ounce" figure is very misleading, it's not the maximum you would be allowed to posses at all! In fact it is the minimum that a "Dry City" would be allowed to "Restrict" you to. Let me explain a little more, each individual city and county in the State of California would have the expressed right to control most all facets of how they would handle the legalization of marijuana, including taxation, distribution, sales control, specific possesion details, etc. That's up to, and including, maintaining a complete prohibition (the way it is now). That is what I mean by the term "Dry City", one that maintains a complete prohibition against marijuana. Even in a "Dry City", where possesion and sale of marijuana would still be prohibited, the State Law would supercede and allow any "legal" adult to carry "Up to 1 ounce" of marijuana on their person. There appears to be no limit to the size of the "Stash" you could have in a "Pot-Freindly" city - but that remains to be seen!
Can anyone deny that Marc Emory is the Poster Boy for "World Wide Acceptance for Marijuana"? Smoking, growing, whatever! His philosophy is "Give it back to the people"! He doesn't pull any punches about gready "Commercial Growers", Cartels and "Street Sales Organizations" being against Prop 19. The following is an excerpt from one of his articles about legalization, he is explaining that are 3 groupes who are opposed to Prop 19 and why they are opposed. You can find the whole article here http://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/co...bis-Initiative :
The first group is the police and prison industry, represented by their unions and spokespeople. These are the system exploiters who have profited greatly and built power bases at the expense of the people. These are our archenemies, people who think its okay making a buck by arresting, strip-searching, incarcerating, harassing, and jailing ordinary cannabis consumer and home-growers. They are destroying our constitutional freedoms, seizing our kids, and forcing the cost of marijuana up to immoral prices as part of their love affair with prohibition.
The second group includes the cartels, thugs, street gangs, large commercial growers, commercial medical marijuana growers and their dependents that make exploitative profits taking full advantage of prohibition-inflated prices. They correctly surmise that when every adult in California can make all the homegrown cannabis an individual can produce in 25 square feet, the need for them and their rip-off prices evaporates. Like, gone, baby gone. And with home grows legal, police will target the exploiter large scale grows. Who needs their $350- to $450-per-ounce cannabis when we can all safely and legally grow our own weed at home for about $12.50 an ounce?
The third group is the so-called old guard of the cannabis or medical marijuana movement. The wonderful Proposition-215 pioneer Denis Peron is one, but there are many others. Their opposition is entirely trivial and irrational. It stems from a professional jealousy that a successful, compassionate man like Richard Lee (who has provided over a million dollars of his well-earned money to support this initiative) is doing it without their blessing. No one asked Dennis Peron's permission. Dennis is a hero to the pot movement and has done a great deal to provide marijuana to medical users, but it seems he feels the world of activism has passed him by because it has, and he's jealous.
I'm not a "Commercial Grower" and I don't see any reason for me, or anyone else, to fall for this kind of "Scare Tactics" bullshit spread around by selfish, money hungry growers who are affraid of the compitition that a "Free Market" would bring. It's not about some Ya-hoo who is affraid of Philip Morris - it's about me, and anybody who feels like it, growing our own - legally!
Californians - vote "Yes on Prop 19!".
Wow, I immediately recognized this from the grasscity forums. I'm glad it was shot down so quickly here with logic. That anti-prop 19 link is just full of more propaganda spread by commercial growers and those standing to lose out of some of their black market cash. Sorry, but this is the most liberal marijuana policy in the world. No way will you convince stoners to vote no. I'm glad someone posted the article by marc emery so I didn't have to, it pretty much sums everything up nicely.
Also, for those who don't know, that grasscity thread was shut down and the OP was banned due to some extremely harsh flaming from him. It was also pointed out via a link to his other posts on that forum that he admitted to being a cali MMJ liar and a commercial grower.
Also, for those who don't know, that grasscity thread was shut down and the OP was banned due to some extremely harsh flaming from him. It was also pointed out via a link to his other posts on that forum that he admitted to being a cali MMJ liar and a commercial grower.
you are trippin, .... http://www.taxcannabis.org/index.php/pages/initiative/
(i) Personally possess, process, share, or transport not more than one ounce of cannabis, solely for that individual’s personal consumption, and not for sale.
(i) Personally possess, process, share, or transport not more than one ounce of cannabis, solely for that individual’s personal consumption, and not for sale.
some more "facts", .... http://www.taxcannabis.org/index.php/pages/initiative/
(i) “Marijuana” and “cannabis” are interchangeable terms that mean all parts of the plant Genus Cannabis, whether growing or not; the resin extracted from any part of the plant; concentrated cannabis; edible products containing same; and every active compound, manufacture, derivative, or preparation of the plant, or resin.
(ii) “One ounce” means 28.5 grams.
(i) “Marijuana” and “cannabis” are interchangeable terms that mean all parts of the plant Genus Cannabis, whether growing or not; the resin extracted from any part of the plant; concentrated cannabis; edible products containing same; and every active compound, manufacture, derivative, or preparation of the plant, or resin.
(ii) “One ounce” means 28.5 grams.
rap89431
Well-Known Member
This is a very interesting dilema we have here. thanks for the link. it is like the healt care bill... there are a lot of people who thought we were getting free health care. Now i have to pay for health care or be fined. So on this issue I don't think that the gov regulating anything is good. They want to be able to tax it and they can't figure out how to tax the growers. So this is how they figured out how to do it. I read that the Oakland city council gave them the go ahead last Tue. for industrial growing. So as for the Mom amd pop growsers who support the impoverished economies all over Cali, if the inititave is passed they will just go back underground. Unfortunatley this will cause more proplems. If there was a way that there could be legitamite Mom and pop grow businesses where they could pay taxes and write off expenses and have employees do you think they would go fo it? I'm sure they would. There really are more bigger problems in this counrty than MMJ. Oakstrdam is going to to charge $100 for an eighth when its all said and done. I'd rather buy locally at a cheaper price and support my buddy even if it was illegal.
Question: How much in taxes woiuld the state make if they were able to legitamize all the small time growers? as oppessed to a couple large corporate opperations? I think the state needs to rethink this.
At this time I woulld vote NO and keep things the way they are.
Question: How much in taxes woiuld the state make if they were able to legitamize all the small time growers? as oppessed to a couple large corporate opperations? I think the state needs to rethink this.
At this time I woulld vote NO and keep things the way they are.
brickedup417
Well-Known Member
im voting no, everytime i say this its like a bashing from hell people come outta the woodworks
sm0keyrich510
Active Member
yes.. i really don't think that medical patients are going to see any difference except that there will be more places to acquire medicine and the price will be lower.. if you have a garden larger than 5x5 right now then you would need to show authorities your prescription papers - i do not think that will change with prop 19 - you will still simply need to rely on your doctor's recommendation stating that you require a certain amount.. the supreme court of California supports doctors' recommended dosage for patients.. prop 19 in no way overrides prop 215..
if i had something to lose from legalization i would be seriously considering how to work the legitimate side of the business right now - not roaming forums and blogs trying to slow the process down because it won't work - full legalization is coming, so prepare for what is in store - corporate industrialization, more clinical medicinal usage, large scale hemp farming, commercial establishments, licensed home grow ops.. there will be tons of room for the people who grow under the table now to have good jobs working with the plant that they love..
i wonder what tens of billions of dollars going back into the california economy looks like...?
there will be FEWER places to get marijuana than there is now... think about how it is under prop 215 now...at least near where i live theres probably at least 25-30 ppl within 10 mins of me...almost anywhere i go theres around that many places or people to get it from. the price is NOT going down...truth be known...these big commercial growers that support prop 19 aren't doing so because its going to hurt their business...only make it better...remember that...
think about the main supporters of prop 19...
they are behind it because they have the most to gain.
once it becomes legal and it cannot be sold without acquiring certain a license (that are very expensive) a big number of suppliers will be gone. a huge number. those people will be replaced by "weed-r-us" or whatever they come up with. the market is as low as it is now in California because of prop 215 and how many growers/suppliers there are...when the pond has that many fish it forces more competition and for people to constantly try and beat out their competitions prices.
if all these fish get taken out of the pond there will be less sources to acquire marijuana and therefore the price will actually be higher (because where else can you get it?)
now it works out if i want and 8th and you tell me you want $50-$70 I'm gonna hang up on you and get it for $30-$40 from someone else...same strain...same quality. if i have to buy it from weed-r-us and they tell me $50-$70 an 8th what can i say?
granted i can say i will grow my own...however there are problems with that for the average person...
A)what if they don't own their property (ie they rent) and the landlord doesn't give them permission to grow?
b) what if you don't have the $$$ to set up your own grow(and pay the pg&e) ...or the room to do it etc...
C) the knowledge (i know people that have smoked 20+ years and they just found out that weed is made by female plants only!) like they never wondered why its called Mary Jane instead of mike Jones.
d) or if they are able to grow but unable (for whatever reason) to grow enough to last them between grows?
then what is one to do? pay the high price...these companies are not going to spend ALL this money to drop weed prices to $39 per oz like everyone is claiming. the companies will most likely stay competitive but high priced to make top $. its just like that with anything else...if you can get it anywhere its dirt cheap...if you can only get it from a few sources its extremely expensive...think about getting seeds online...there are only a few places worth trusting and they charge $10-$25+ for 1 seed sometimes.
if you could get seeds as easy as clones then the prices would be much lower...when you buy a clone its usually $8-$12 each and its already well on its way in the veg stage.
why do they charge so much? because you will have to pay it...same thing with oil and gas prices.
thank you
tell me about it...as you can see they are trying to "hurt me feelings"...on the internet...i swear i dont know if some realize i get a kick out of there attempts to bash me. i could really care less. i dont even reply to half of these posts anymore because its the same stuff.
brickedup417
Well-Known Member
have no fear joedubs when i was in town today they told me the collectives across nor-cal are makeing everyone aware of th b/s theyre trying to sneek in behind this so called "legalization" which is far from what it is. They told me you gotta figure it like this, most people in the mmj community grow with theyre familys and friends if they keep spreading the word were gonna be A-ok. And as everyone knows there are alott of familys that depend on mmj, thats alott of people saying hell no
sm0keyrich510
Active Member
thanks guys...i was just about to start stressing here... for the longest it seemed as if it were going to pass. only in the last month or two have i started to think we have a chance...for all of you that think prop 19 is so great you'll be thanking those who voted no. if it were to pass everyone that voted yes on 19 would feel real stupid when they realized it didn't work out as they believed it would.
keep spreading the word everyone...no on 19...i try to tell as many people as i can that prop 19 is just a trick to rape us on taxes and "fees" not to mention have big business be our new gang/drug cartel...if those who are for 19 think prices are high now you wouldn't believe what would happen if this passed and you had to buy marijuana from big business only (unless you grow your own which even if you did would force you to buy SOME of your marijuana from them unless you smoke less than 1 oz ever 2-3-4 months which your average smoker does NOT...)
keep spreading the word everyone...no on 19...i try to tell as many people as i can that prop 19 is just a trick to rape us on taxes and "fees" not to mention have big business be our new gang/drug cartel...if those who are for 19 think prices are high now you wouldn't believe what would happen if this passed and you had to buy marijuana from big business only (unless you grow your own which even if you did would force you to buy SOME of your marijuana from them unless you smoke less than 1 oz ever 2-3-4 months which your average smoker does NOT...)
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
It's also important to mention that the 200K fee is for the city of Oakland only. It costs 200k because city counsel member and mayor candidate Rebecca Kaplan is 100% owned by Richard Lee. He funded her initial campaign to put her on the city council and continues to fund all her campaigns. She is the one making it happen for him in Oakland. He is only able to do this because there aren't a lot of competing well funded lobbies in Oakland.
Could this happen in other places too? Sure it could, absolutely. I'm sure there will be other cases of this happening. But it's not a given that it's going to happen frequently. In fact, it's very unlikely. There will most likely be many cities/counties where permits to start for profit cannabis related businesses will be affordable. To point to Oakland as what is going to be the norm in California is completely inaccurate. It took a very special set of circumstances to do what is being done in Oakland.
sm0keyrich510
Active Member
That doesn't make it right... No one that grows for ANY type of profit can be thrilled about paying $200K+ in Oakland. so if you're an Oakland resident you are really gonna be screwed harder than anyone else...
its just this type of slime ass crap that makes me want to vote no. with 215 you don't pay a fee to obtain a license to grow/sell marijuana...you just pay the cost of your card every year...which is a whole lot cheaper and affordable to literally everyone (who can't get $100-$200 per year for card? ) beyond that renewing a card is much cheaper (usually) than the inital cost the first year.
I think what Oakland is doing is wrong...i think they are just trying to cash in on this and its wrong...they don't deserve 90% of what they are asking.
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
You're right. It's messed up if you're an Oakland grower. I can't argue against that. They'll have to commute to move their product or turn to the black market. I live in a city that has already done what Oakland did 6 months ago. So I'm not without sympathy for that. It sucks.
Well regardless of if prop 19 passes or not, 215 will still be there, so don't worry too much.
I don't see things as so black and white. No doubt Rebecca Kaplan is corrupt as hell, but at the same time you have to consider the position the city of Oakland is in. There are much more pressing problems in the city of Oakland than cannabis law.
Sure, they are trying to cash in. But not so they can all have mansions in the Oakland Hills. Oakland was one of the most dangerous cities in the country before this year when they had to let go 80 police officers due to their financial problems.
While I do agree with you that what they are doing is wrong, it's not all for sinister motivations. They do have much bigger problems. It's not all out of greed. Some of this is out of necessity at least in their minds.
10jed
Active Member
Wow... this article and a few like it are causing a great big stir. You guys really need to look at the big picture and read the prop 19 instead of the translations of it. we are all smart enough to understand what is said!
First off I would like to point out that all of this line by line debate and doubt casting started after the bill was no longer amendable. By intent do you think? Some of what I read are good points but mostly it is bullshit, and is written more to undermine the entire concept than to provide a better bill. If the people casting these doubts wanted any form of regulation these points would have been brought up months ago while the bill was still amendable. People with illegal commercial grows don't want any form of legalization unless it allows them to do business as usual... selling product without taxes. That is what the opposition cares about.
I don't like the idea of big business commanding the MJ trade any more than the next guy, but there is nothing in the prop that says there is a $200,000 licenses fee. It says that local governments have the right to do what they will. Fuck Oakland if they want to make it corporate! Do you think Mendocino county wants that. Do think they are going to fuck their residents because Oakland did? Give me a break. Oakland can produce big quantities from 4 business moguls but the rest of the state can do as they will. Each local government can tweak their laws to fit in all areas except among age restrictions. Other than the kids here, I think we all agree that is OK and probably wise. The 18-20 bracket I don't think is really getting a fair shake on this deal as I personally would rather see hard working young adults and college age students smoke a joint than doing keg stands on a Wednesday night. But whatever, wait 2 more years kids and it will be all good! If a local government wants to license businesses with a 50 lb per year cap they can. If a local government wants to keep the big hitters out they can. If a local government wants to help their residents compete in the market they can. No where in the prop does the little guy get screwed. Though it does mean they have to run as a legal business, and pay income taxes like the rest of us.
Speaking of taxes, do people really oppose paying taxes on MJ? We pay taxes on it now! Since illegal commercial growers are living at least partially if not fully on their sales we are paying their income tax for them. That's right, government doesn't say "we are taxing everyone x%" and be done with it, they say " we need x million dollars and divide it by the number of tax payers", so since the people in the community who are profiting from mj sales are not paying taxes, we get the pleasure of paying their taxes for them. so that is tax #1. Tax #2 that we are already paying is sales tax. This we pay to criminal organizations and street dealers. Our taxes now fund not only general gang activity but also the sale and import of wonderful drugs like crack, meth, and heroine, and the illegal sales of pharmaceuticals that turn into heroine addictions. Tax #3 is a great one too, this is the tax we pay for conviction and rehabilitation. Because mj is illegal people who get caught are often offered a break if they seek treatment. This means state funded rehabilitation centers for "pot addicts", and/or people out of work and now on welfare, and court costs to mediate all this bullshit. That just adds to the cost of our income and property taxes, so it is a tax we now pay. Pot convictions can ruin lives, it can prevent smart and otherwise law abiding young adults from getting college loans, it can add drain to the welfare system through incarceration and job-site testing resulting in loss of employment because of a joint you smoked last weekend. We currently pay for all this bullshit. There are many other examples of how we are currently taxed for MJ... well all except the commercial growers, the criminal organizations they sell to, and the street dealers. We have tax now but no regulation, none that works anyways.
The overall impact of prop 19 is huge for the entire country and for the legitimization of recreational mj use. This is a massive step for the entire country and maybe even the planet. If nothing else, this will force the federal government to finally acknowledge that MJ is not harmful and that people want it. there is language in the prop that will allow for testing. We can't even test MJ now. The feds are adamant on people not realizing that the reasons prohibition started 80 years ago were a bunch of bullshit!
This bill will allow the simple consumer the option to legally grow their own, and for people to consume without fear of prosecution. I understand that some medical users go though ounces per week, but for the rest of us a 5x5 garden is more than sufficient. Now we can go buy clones or openly talk to our friends about our grow. Wouldn't it be nice to show off your girls to your friends when they come over instead of lighting a dozen candles? Rule #1 of growing, the one that says tell nobody, is abolished with this prop! Wouldn't you like to help your friends start a grow? Wouldn't you like to talk openly about the gooseberry skunk pheno you found in a 10 pack of $30 beans? wouldn't it be cool to casually talk about your grow with anyone in hopes of finally getting a clone of that real Indiana bubble gum that was lost and/or raped in Amsterdam years ago? This is legal growing folks! How many here say "I would grow but I don't want to get caught"? how many have kids that are in dare programs and don't grow for fear of their kids seeing it as the demon drug they are told it is?
This bill puts into perspective of weight vs square footage vs # of plants. This is an important clarification. We don't want the authorities to say we have 50 plants when we have a small sog and a half dozen mothers do we? we don't want the authorities to say we have 10 lbs of MJ when all we have 6 wet ounces on a 4 foot plant in a 2 gallon pot full of dirt. This is good and much needed verbiage!!! also a pound of brownies isn't a pound of pot.
The bill says that a person using lawfully cannot be discriminated against and even goes on to say that an employer can't discriminate unless there is proof of impairment at the workplace. This bill clearly states that no local or state law enforcement shall impair or impede a legal grow so it puts the DEA out on their own and allows the local guys to say "sorry we can't let you use our resources because we are bound by state law" That is HUGE. DEA doesn't currently do too much without help from the locals.
Don't fall into the vote no hype, because it is all hype! This prop gives a lot of the control over to the city and county governments and will allow communities the choice of helping the corporations or the residents. This will provide income for the cites and state. This will offer protection on a state level to people who abide by it. This will allow, at least in some communities, the local farmer to do what he does best in a legal business format. This will set an example for the rest of the country and for the rest of the world.
I appreciate all that Jack Herrer has done for the pot smoking community but his dream of treating pot like a tomato plant is a hippy pipe dream. I would love it and you would love it but it doesn't solve the problems that prohibition has created and offers -0- incentive for government or non-smokers to support this. If you are waiting for that, then don't hold your breath it just won't ever happen even though that is what we all want. We are being taxed already, and although I hate much of what the government does as much as the next guy, I would rather my taxes go to government then street gangs and cartels. I would rather see that people making 5x the money I do paying 5x the taxes and people making the same paying the same. I would rather the underground community be brought to sea level so that the criminals and their corrupt sidelines can better be dealt with. This is a great bill and anyone who is in favor of peace, order, and smoking pot should be voting yes. The no votes are a vote for prohibition and the criminal activities that follow it.
Jed
First off I would like to point out that all of this line by line debate and doubt casting started after the bill was no longer amendable. By intent do you think? Some of what I read are good points but mostly it is bullshit, and is written more to undermine the entire concept than to provide a better bill. If the people casting these doubts wanted any form of regulation these points would have been brought up months ago while the bill was still amendable. People with illegal commercial grows don't want any form of legalization unless it allows them to do business as usual... selling product without taxes. That is what the opposition cares about.
I don't like the idea of big business commanding the MJ trade any more than the next guy, but there is nothing in the prop that says there is a $200,000 licenses fee. It says that local governments have the right to do what they will. Fuck Oakland if they want to make it corporate! Do you think Mendocino county wants that. Do think they are going to fuck their residents because Oakland did? Give me a break. Oakland can produce big quantities from 4 business moguls but the rest of the state can do as they will. Each local government can tweak their laws to fit in all areas except among age restrictions. Other than the kids here, I think we all agree that is OK and probably wise. The 18-20 bracket I don't think is really getting a fair shake on this deal as I personally would rather see hard working young adults and college age students smoke a joint than doing keg stands on a Wednesday night. But whatever, wait 2 more years kids and it will be all good! If a local government wants to license businesses with a 50 lb per year cap they can. If a local government wants to keep the big hitters out they can. If a local government wants to help their residents compete in the market they can. No where in the prop does the little guy get screwed. Though it does mean they have to run as a legal business, and pay income taxes like the rest of us.
Speaking of taxes, do people really oppose paying taxes on MJ? We pay taxes on it now! Since illegal commercial growers are living at least partially if not fully on their sales we are paying their income tax for them. That's right, government doesn't say "we are taxing everyone x%" and be done with it, they say " we need x million dollars and divide it by the number of tax payers", so since the people in the community who are profiting from mj sales are not paying taxes, we get the pleasure of paying their taxes for them. so that is tax #1. Tax #2 that we are already paying is sales tax. This we pay to criminal organizations and street dealers. Our taxes now fund not only general gang activity but also the sale and import of wonderful drugs like crack, meth, and heroine, and the illegal sales of pharmaceuticals that turn into heroine addictions. Tax #3 is a great one too, this is the tax we pay for conviction and rehabilitation. Because mj is illegal people who get caught are often offered a break if they seek treatment. This means state funded rehabilitation centers for "pot addicts", and/or people out of work and now on welfare, and court costs to mediate all this bullshit. That just adds to the cost of our income and property taxes, so it is a tax we now pay. Pot convictions can ruin lives, it can prevent smart and otherwise law abiding young adults from getting college loans, it can add drain to the welfare system through incarceration and job-site testing resulting in loss of employment because of a joint you smoked last weekend. We currently pay for all this bullshit. There are many other examples of how we are currently taxed for MJ... well all except the commercial growers, the criminal organizations they sell to, and the street dealers. We have tax now but no regulation, none that works anyways.
The overall impact of prop 19 is huge for the entire country and for the legitimization of recreational mj use. This is a massive step for the entire country and maybe even the planet. If nothing else, this will force the federal government to finally acknowledge that MJ is not harmful and that people want it. there is language in the prop that will allow for testing. We can't even test MJ now. The feds are adamant on people not realizing that the reasons prohibition started 80 years ago were a bunch of bullshit!
This bill will allow the simple consumer the option to legally grow their own, and for people to consume without fear of prosecution. I understand that some medical users go though ounces per week, but for the rest of us a 5x5 garden is more than sufficient. Now we can go buy clones or openly talk to our friends about our grow. Wouldn't it be nice to show off your girls to your friends when they come over instead of lighting a dozen candles? Rule #1 of growing, the one that says tell nobody, is abolished with this prop! Wouldn't you like to help your friends start a grow? Wouldn't you like to talk openly about the gooseberry skunk pheno you found in a 10 pack of $30 beans? wouldn't it be cool to casually talk about your grow with anyone in hopes of finally getting a clone of that real Indiana bubble gum that was lost and/or raped in Amsterdam years ago? This is legal growing folks! How many here say "I would grow but I don't want to get caught"? how many have kids that are in dare programs and don't grow for fear of their kids seeing it as the demon drug they are told it is?
This bill puts into perspective of weight vs square footage vs # of plants. This is an important clarification. We don't want the authorities to say we have 50 plants when we have a small sog and a half dozen mothers do we? we don't want the authorities to say we have 10 lbs of MJ when all we have 6 wet ounces on a 4 foot plant in a 2 gallon pot full of dirt. This is good and much needed verbiage!!! also a pound of brownies isn't a pound of pot.
The bill says that a person using lawfully cannot be discriminated against and even goes on to say that an employer can't discriminate unless there is proof of impairment at the workplace. This bill clearly states that no local or state law enforcement shall impair or impede a legal grow so it puts the DEA out on their own and allows the local guys to say "sorry we can't let you use our resources because we are bound by state law" That is HUGE. DEA doesn't currently do too much without help from the locals.
Don't fall into the vote no hype, because it is all hype! This prop gives a lot of the control over to the city and county governments and will allow communities the choice of helping the corporations or the residents. This will provide income for the cites and state. This will offer protection on a state level to people who abide by it. This will allow, at least in some communities, the local farmer to do what he does best in a legal business format. This will set an example for the rest of the country and for the rest of the world.
I appreciate all that Jack Herrer has done for the pot smoking community but his dream of treating pot like a tomato plant is a hippy pipe dream. I would love it and you would love it but it doesn't solve the problems that prohibition has created and offers -0- incentive for government or non-smokers to support this. If you are waiting for that, then don't hold your breath it just won't ever happen even though that is what we all want. We are being taxed already, and although I hate much of what the government does as much as the next guy, I would rather my taxes go to government then street gangs and cartels. I would rather see that people making 5x the money I do paying 5x the taxes and people making the same paying the same. I would rather the underground community be brought to sea level so that the criminals and their corrupt sidelines can better be dealt with. This is a great bill and anyone who is in favor of peace, order, and smoking pot should be voting yes. The no votes are a vote for prohibition and the criminal activities that follow it.
Jed
akashefi12
Member
A lot of misleading and incorrect facts in that link though. For example,
"and in California, there is no “drug war” being fought against possession of up to one ounce, because marijuana is already decriminalized"?
I just spoke to a lawyer about opening a dispensary and he told me this - " I have a client who had all the proper paperwork, recommendations,
and was within all limitations who was arrested. Now, it should get dropped but that is just a big hassle" So, to say marijuana is decriminalized
is far fetched. Anyway, that was just one point on just one of the myths I thought I should point out. There are more but i'm not here to stir stuff up.
Anyone reading this, though, all I can say is do not base your decisions on one piece of info like this.
"and in California, there is no “drug war” being fought against possession of up to one ounce, because marijuana is already decriminalized"?
I just spoke to a lawyer about opening a dispensary and he told me this - " I have a client who had all the proper paperwork, recommendations,
and was within all limitations who was arrested. Now, it should get dropped but that is just a big hassle" So, to say marijuana is decriminalized
is far fetched. Anyway, that was just one point on just one of the myths I thought I should point out. There are more but i'm not here to stir stuff up.
Anyone reading this, though, all I can say is do not base your decisions on one piece of info like this.
- Status