Why are so many growers against gun ownership?

[NoDrama]

You are continuing a debate that goes on over here daily. Not all Americans are gun nuts. We have a huge special interest group called the NRA. If any of our law makers so much as mention guns out loud, they go on a list and the NRA will spend billions to prop up a candidate against that person. Our constitution guarantees the right of states to allow individuals to bear arms to form a militia and protect said state. Some people have twisted that to mean that they can have unlimited assault weapons in their home. I think the constitution and bill of rights speaks for itself, without needing some wild interpretations. Not all Americans believe that just anybody can walk down the street with concealed weapons... but it happens. And yes, we have people that kill children, their own family members and themselves. We have armed bank robberies, road rage shootings, armed home invasions, etc.

The fact of the matter is, we have hundreds of millions of guns in the hands of about 150 million Americans. The amount of crime you guys hear about over there is hardly proportionate to the number of weapons here. Most Americans that own weapons never have cause to shoot them, unless hunting or on a range. The only exception is a felon that gets their hand on one. If we took away all the guns from the law abiding Americans, only criminals would have guns.

Now you are making sense!

 

[doc111]

Here is one of my Favs doc111....

Sweeeeeet!!!!!

 

[Soium]

I only own a love gun. My bullets take 18 years and 9 months to kill you.

 

[Johnnyorganic]

That is true, but I think the OP is referring to how Growers actually FEEL about gun ownership. Harsh penalties aside, I think everybody should own at least one. Dogs are great too!

It's possible such animus against firearms is not genuine. It could merely be self-preservation by misdirection, not unlike the stupid "Everything I say here is bullshit!" disclaimers people include in their sigs.

Possession of a firearm while also in possession, manufacturing, or even using illicit drugs is a Federal crime per the Gun Control Act of 1968.

But then again, it could very well be genuine. I routinely read some downright shocking anti-freedom opinions from smokers here in this very forum.

My solution is to re-legalize cannabis, then we can have all the firearms we want.

To those against firearms I say this: Don't own one. Problem solved... until your life, liberty, or property is threatened.

 

[NoDrama]

Possession of a firearm while also in possession, manufacturing, or even using illicit drugs is a Federal crime per the Gun Control Act of 1968.

Sorry Johnny, but that isn't quite correct. Its only a FEDERAL CRIME if the guns and ammo go across state lines, read the law. http://www.justice.gov/usao/ut/psn/documents/guncard.pdf

Scroll down to the bottom of the first page, notice section C? what is the word right after the previous section, the word is AND. the legal definition of AND is "A logical operator that returns a true value only if both operands are true." in other words you must have ONE of the offenses listed in section B AND C for it to be a FEDERAL case. Since section C enumerates only 1 item, all guns and ammo must have gone across state lines at some time for it to be a FEDERAL case.

Here is the ACTUAL law http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf
, go to page 42, see section 478.32 You will see that it first notes WHO the Jurisdiction resides. Interstate or foreign commerce. IE it had to go over state lines or out of the country or in the District of Columbia for it to be a FEDERAL crime. Look at all the sections, they all say something about interstate or foreign commerce.
Its a great read. Made me want to pull my hair out trying to get through most of it. Legalese is its own language, akin to the language that tapeworms, cockroaches and rats speak.

 

[Johnnyorganic]

Sorry Johnny, but that isn't quite correct. Its only a FEDERAL CRIME if the guns and ammo go across state lines, read the law. http://www.justice.gov/usao/ut/psn/documents/guncard.pdf

Scroll down to the bottom of the first page, notice section C? what is the word right after the previous section, the word is AND. the legal definition of AND is "A logical operator that returns a true value only if both operands are true." in other words you must have ONE of the offenses listed in section B AND C for it to be a FEDERAL case. Since section C enumerates only 1 item, all guns and ammo must have gone across state lines at some time for it to be a FEDERAL case.

Here is the ACTUAL law http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf
, go to page 42, see section 478.32 You will see that it first notes WHO the Jurisdiction resides. Interstate or foreign commerce. IE it had to go over state lines or out of the country or in the District of Columbia for it to be a FEDERAL crime. Look at all the sections, they all say something about interstate or foreign commerce.
Its a great read. Made me want to pull my hair out trying to get through most of it. Legalese is its own language, akin to the language that tapeworms, cockroaches and rats speak.

Relevant excerpts:

I. POSSESSION OF A FIREARM OR AMMUNITION BY A PROHIBITED
PERSON:

18 USC § 922(g) & (n). Punishable by up to 10 years imprisonment. May receive minimum sentence of 15 years without parole if offender has three or more prior convictions for a felony crime of violence (e.g. burglary, robbery, assault, possession of offensive weapons) and/or drug trafficking felony.

The elements relating only to weapons and illicit drugs:

A. Possession or receipt of a firearm or ammunition;

B. By a subject who falls within one of the following categories:

Drug user or addict - (Often shown where paraphernalia seized, subject tests positive for drugs
and/or subject claims drugs were possessed for personal use.);

And

C. The firearm or ammunition was transported across a state line at any time.

Element C casts a wide net.

 

[NoDrama]

Element C casts a wide net.

Very Wide.

 

[Johnnyorganic]

Very Wide.

Agreed.

The statute was intended to target traffickers and dealers, but a zealous prosecutor could make a case against any one of us who meets the criteria; if he were so inclined.

The statute mentions possession or receipt as the offense. And Element C applies solely to the firearm or the ammunition; not the drug user or addict.

Now I can think of a scenario where a person could take receipt of a new firearm and be a resident of the same state where the firearm was manufactured, meaning the weapon would never have crossed state lines before receipt or possession. But in order to be in compliance with this law, the ammo for it must never have crossed state lines from the point of manufacture prior to receipt either.

The possibility of an affirmative defense under the statute is so small as to be practically non-existent.

 

[doc111]

It's possible such animus against firearms is not genuine. It could merely be self-preservation by misdirection, not unlike the stupid "Everything I say here is bullshit!" disclaimers people include in their sigs.

Possession of a firearm while also in possession, manufacturing, or even using illicit drugs is a Federal crime per the Gun Control Act of 1968.

But then again, it could very well be genuine. I routinely read some downright shocking anti-freedom opinions from smokers here in this very forum.

My solution is to re-legalize cannabis, then we can have all the firearms we want.

To those against firearms I say this: Don't own one. Problem solved... until your life, liberty, or property is threatened.

I don't know if the federal govt. would've gotten involved with my petty case but the cop told me it was an automatic felony charge to be in posession of a gun and any amount of "drugs". I only had an eigth which would've been a slap on the wrist, but the gun would've gotten me mandatory time had I been arrested and convicted. I had a permit and it was my gun. I was completely unaware of this law so I stopped carrying weed on my person from that point on. I also make sure I have no guns at my grow location.

 

[Carthoris]

Seriously, the amendment, as well as the writers of it, made it very plain they wanted the citizens to have weapons to defend themselves from our government, and other governments. Also, its the United States of America, not a single place. We are under a single Federal Government, that government is not supposed to be in charge of us, only oversee. The states are to make their own rules.

The NRA does what it does because it knows that if they restrict a handgrip on a gun, the next thing will be what the gun is made of, how long it is, ect ect. Restrictions normally only go one way, if the NRA let them restrict guns to a 10 round clip, the next thing would be a 5 round clip, then a single shot. Then no shots. Look at us 100 years ago, look at how many needless laws we made just for the hell of it? Look at Prohibition. Look at Marijuana, look at seat belt laws. These are examples of people feeling that you shouldn't do a certain thing because you are too stupid to think for yourself, and that you will get hurt. Seriously, if I don't wear a seatbelt, who am I hurting? I'm not likely to fly out the window and kill someone walking down the road. Don't give me that social responsibility crap, I have insurance that covers my brains being splattered. Lets make people on motorcycles wear seat belts too. Less people die from illegal drugs a year than they do from jerking off.

As far as not being able to fight the Government? Why not? Do you honestly think of the what, hundreds of thousands of US soldiers that they would all fight to subdue their own population? I seriously doubt it. And it has been quite plainly shown that 200k people cant even subdue a few thousand people fighting them. The government cant exactly nuke us. We would not form up and let them drop bombs on us. Everyone isn't a coward, and everyone isn't afraid to do what needs to be done. It is either do it when it comes down to it, or turn into a country where you have no control over your life anymore. And from our English friends, whatever, England is one of the most brutal and imperial countries ever. Right up there with Ghengis Khans Mongolia and Hitlers Germany. Just because you didn't start a world war killing your subjects doesn't mean it was any better than anyone elses genocides. In fact, if I remember correctly, America is in large part a country full of people who have been dicked over by the English.

All that aside, there is no way you can honestly say that the Constitution, and the writers of it, did not want us to have weapons that could kill people, or fight against the government. If you honestly believe its not true, I suggest you do some reading. It is your duty as an American to learn to use weapons and teach those around you to use them.

Carthoris

 

[Koroku]

Hey, I never said that I want to take away your rights... Just in a place like England, there is no use for guns. We have no "dangerous wildlife" to protect ourselves from or anything like that. All it would cause really is trouble here, so I was just saying how I don't really care that we don't have the right to bear arms in this country. I really don't see how it would help with anything, legalisation of marijuana would help more. Guns make Americans feel safer because there is almost a need to have one over there, no need in England and introducing that right would fuck this country up.

Plus I don't judge or look down on people man, you've got the wrong end of the stick. I support free choice, as long as it doesn't effect other people, e.g. smoking in public areas, is one thing that I'm glad is illegal, or murder

I support abortion and I don't care what beliefs or religions anyone has, as long as they don't try to fucking force it on other people haha, or see people in a bad light if they don't support the same religion.

This world does need laws, some are complete bullshit and outdated but we do need laws. If everyone was allowed to be truly free, the world would be fucked... It's sad but we can never actually really be "free"

Also just to clarify, most countries in Europe are not communist (can't think of any anyway) and we probably have as many rights and freedoms in the uk as you do in the US, we are as free as you guys tbh... And remember we are also free to move country if we don't like the rights we are given.

I think this thread was created more for american pot smokers who believe cannabis should be legal, yet bash the right to bear arms. I think that is kind of silly really. I think they are referred to as hippies? They believe in being free and shit yet bash the freedoms they don't want but other people do... meh people are strange.

 

[Koroku]

I agree with the seatbelt thing and where you are coming from (although if you crash without a seatbelt you are more likely to die/make a big mess that someone has to clean up, plus if you are a passenger sitting behind someone, your body will fly forwards into the back of them and likely kill them)
I think that people should be allowed to do stuff that harms only themselves... Smoke weed on your property? Who cares, grow it? As long as you take care of the smell Who the fuck cares... Inject heroin in your own home? Well.. you are an idiot but I don't really care haha. Shoot yourself in the arm for fun in your own home? As long as it is not affecting other people around you then it shouldn't be illegal, we should be able to trust people and not treat everyone like retards that will likely kill themselves and others around them if those laws were taken away...

The ones without common sense/ a brain may end up dead... But it's their own fault in my opinion. If you are a Heroin addict or something it is your own fault, no one else injected that needle into your arm eveyday. Education these days tells us all the dangers, a quick google search will likely tell you the dangers. if you choose to ignore it then that is your own fault.

LEGALISE IT!!!

p.s. I know the shooting in the arm thing was a little silly.

 

[Johnnyorganic]

Hey, I never said that I want to take away your rights... Just in a place like England, there is no use for guns. We have no "dangerous wildlife" to protect ourselves from or anything like that. All it would cause really is trouble here, so I was just saying how I don't really care that we don't have the right to bear arms in this country. I really don't see how it would help with anything, legalisation of marijuana would help more. Guns make Americans feel safer because there is almost a need to have one over there, no need in England and introducing that right would fuck this country up.

Plus I don't judge or look down on people man, you've got the wrong end of the stick. I support free choice, as long as it doesn't effect other people, e.g. smoking in public areas, is one thing that I'm glad is illegal, or murder

I support abortion and I don't care what beliefs or religions anyone has, as long as they don't try to fucking force it on other people haha, or see people in a bad light if they don't support the same religion.

This world does need laws, some are complete bullshit and outdated but we do need laws. If everyone was allowed to be truly free, the world would be fucked... It's sad but we can never actually really be "free"

Also just to clarify, most countries in Europe are not communist (can't think of any anyway) and we probably have as many rights and freedoms in the uk as you do in the US, we are as free as you guys tbh... And remember we are also free to move country if we don't like the rights we are given.

I think this thread was created more for american pot smokers who believe cannabis should be legal, yet bash the right to bear arms. I think that is kind of silly really. I think they are referred to as hippies? They believe in being free and shit yet bash the freedoms they don't want but other people do... meh people are strange.

The right to keep and bear arms per the Second Amendment has nothing to do with wildlife populations.

Although the basis of the American Revolution was a tax revolt; it was an attempt by the British Army to seize a Colonial weapons cache in Concord that started the shooting war on Lexington Green.

The framers of the Constitution never forgot that; which is precisely why the Second Amendment exists.

It is our fail-safe against tyranny. It backs up the entire Constitution. Many in the Federal government understand this and the ongoing threat it presents. Which is why elected officials and bureaucrats are constantly scheming to dilute it.

 

[Mindmelted]

Right on the money.....

 

[NoDrama]

The real reason the revolution happened wasn't just because of unrepresented taxation. King George also took away the colonial script(The money) and forced the colonies to use Sterling pounds. Since England was not importing much from the colonies there wasn't much money to be had in the colonies and that affected the colonists very badly. People couldn't buy things to survive, there was literally no money to be had. This had to change and was also one of the biggest reasons we declared independence.

 

[HowzerMD]

I agree with koroku on the "needing a gun in US" point. As fucking miserable and murderous as the streets were that I was raised on, I thought it couldn't get worse. It has and thankfully I don't live there anymore. Not since I was a teenager. But living in a place like that makes you see the crime in this country in concentrated doses. Most folks would be surprised at some of the grizzly stuff that happens in certain places every single day and it will make you want to carry a gun. It's fucking embarassing that I see an entire country somewhere else that doesn't even NEED guns to protect themselves, but we are a bunch of ol' wild west pistol totin huckleberries over here in the GOOD OL U-S-OF-A. Unfortunately the right to bear arms is a loose concept for most, and I'm sure most people that own a gun here wouldn't know the appropriate time to use it. Or would use it at the least appropriate time. I support gun ownership, for people that KNOW HOW TO USE THEM. All too often do I see a young man going into a gun shop to pick up a Mossberg because it's bad ass and he just has to own it. In all honesty we need to make a much tighter policy nation wide. It should be really hard to get a gun, and really easy to lose it. I would totally be against making them illegal on the other hand; it would end up a black market item and the criminals would be the ones in charge of guns. This is a subject that people will debate to the end of time, that I can not disagree with.

 

[Koroku]

Yeah thats what I think, changing the law, making guns illegal would just cause havok and the only people with guns would be the real criminals. Kind of how it is with weed at the moment, unless you grow your own.

 

[grobofotwanky]

The same reason so many people are against marijuana....ignorance and misleading info

 

[abe23]

So is the regularized spectacle of workplace and school shootings just the cost of admission for having a free society? Or can you stop crazies from getting guns or using them to cause harm?

I like guns and I'm all for responsible private gun ownership, but I also want to be able to go to work or have lunch somewhere without having to worry about some asshole shooting me. Or should I be carrying at all times as well...?

 

[Dinosaur Bone]

I am more of a JPFO guy, as the NRA is to0 mild mannered and politically correct for my taste.

I dont currently own a gun... BUT if the government ever does round up guns from law abiding citizens... that is the same day I make a gun. I have a metal lathe.

I took a sacred oath to defend the Country and Constitution from enemy's foreign and domestic. I am the kind of Jew that will be in the woods... I aint getting on a train unless I buy a ticket.

On April 20th I print up the "raise your right hand for gun control" target, shoot it with an slingshot and burn it. http://www.jpfo.org/pdf/hitlertarget.pdf

Hate & Bigotry + Government gone wild + unarmed citizens = Genocide.