Why are so many growers against gun ownership?

doc111

Well-Known Member
We make the gov't our enemy to our own detriment. The point is that the powerful elite run the gov't partially because we think the gov't is our enemy. The gov't should be a vehicle for the people. Instead people latch unto the inane anti-establishment idealism without any concrete goals. If people really want control, then they need to grab control of our gov't from the elite. Election reform is an example. We, the People, do not have representation because we do not fight for the laws/rules which would give our candidates a chance to be elected. Yes, we have numbers...and we could use them...instead we let the media/elite/powerful separate us with partisan BS sentiment like "the gov't is bad".

A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free
State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be
infringed.

A well-regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State... (is a proviso to the second part ... a well-regulated Militia, as in people's military group... security of a free State (the security of the United States)...

The right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed... (in order to secure the first part of a well-regulated Militia... having gun control and laws can be argued not to be an "infringement" towards a well-regulated Militia...in actuality control/laws would enable an improvement on those lines...)

Gun ownership is not universal...if they were universal then it would have been spelled out more plainly... "All people have the universal right to keep and bear Arms" without any such proviso like "well-regulated Militia"...

Gun ownership is a responsibility. That is the part that is left out of many discussions. Along with rights comes responsibility. Some people should not have a gun, they are not responsible citizens.

Regulations are in dire need in the US.
Not everybody thinks the govt. is the enemy. More and more we are seeing that the govt. doesn't act in the best interest of the people. More and more we see blatant corruption. More and more we see powerful, corrupt politicians getting away with it simply because they have money and power. Some would argue that regulation is the problem. We have to walk a fine line in this country and of course gun ownership isn't universal. We do attach some provisions like you cannot be a convicted felon and own a gun. With liberty comes responsibility. Unfortunately not everybody is responsible. What now? We should shackle everybody simply because a relative few cannot be responsible? The right to keep and bear arms is indeed one of the most powerful checks in our system of govt. Our forefathers knew that this would be the only thing standing between the people and tyranny. Take away this most fundamental right and see how long it takes for us all to be in shackles.:fire:
 

BuddhaDawg

Active Member
Not everybody thinks the govt. is the enemy. More and more we are seeing that the govt. doesn't act in the best interest of the people. More and more we see blatant corruption. More and more we see powerful, corrupt politicians getting away with it simply because they have money and power. Some would argue that regulation is the problem. We have to walk a fine line in this country and of course gun ownership isn't universal. We do attach some provisions like you cannot be a convicted felon and own a gun. With liberty comes responsibility. Unfortunately not everybody is responsible. What now? We should shackle everybody simply because a relative few cannot be responsible? The right to keep and bear arms is indeed one of the most powerful checks in our system of govt. Our forefathers knew that this would be the only thing standing between the people and tyranny. Take away this most fundamental right and see how long it takes for us all to be in shackles.:fire:
The gov't does not act in the best interest of the people because the people do not take control of the gov't which they think does not serve them. It is a catch-22. The solution is to take control of the gov't back for the people. Obviously that is not an easy course.

Regulation is not the problem. We are land of laws. The problem is the lack or wrong kind of regulation.

Slippery slope argumentation is not a good example. "not everyone responsible" does not equate "shackle everyone". Life is not black and white. We have to have more nuanced thinking than that to get anything important resolved.

The right to keep and bear arms is not powerful check in our system of gov't. Millions of guns in this country does not mean squat in checking our governments power. The biggest check the people have is the vote...and we keep letting it get undermined by the media/two party system/elites. Our forefathers were thinking about what would happen if another country would attack us again, we needed to have citizen militias at the ready to defend against the likes of Britain and France. It is a shame that passionate people in this country are using up their energies on inane ideas like gun protection against the gov't than fighting for their true representation in our gov't.
 

doc111

Well-Known Member
The gov't does not act in the best interest of the people because the people do not take control of the gov't which they think does not serve them. It is a catch-22. The solution is to take control of the gov't back for the people. Obviously that is not an easy course.

Regulation is not the problem. We are land of laws. The problem is the lack or wrong kind of regulation.

Slippery slope argumentation is not a good example. "not everyone responsible" does not equate "shackle everyone". Life is not black and white. We have to have more nuanced thinking than that to get anything important resolved.

The right to keep and bear arms is not powerful check in our system of gov't. Millions of guns in this country does not mean squat in checking our governments power. The biggest check the people have is the vote...and we keep letting it get undermined by the media/two party system/elites. Our forefathers were thinking about what would happen if another country would attack us again, we needed to have citizen militias at the ready to defend against the likes of Britain and France. It is a shame that passionate people in this country are using up their energies on inane ideas like gun protection against the gov't than fighting for their true representation in our gov't.
Oh you poor, poor person. I can see by your posts that you believe YOUR way is the only way. Nuanced thinking indeed! lol! We are on an unsustainable course. I'm an independent/libertarian. Go ahead and laugh. I'm not your purist libertarian who thinks there should be no govt. I do believe the govt. should be as small as possible. Can't you see, govts don't produce anything. They don't make things better in the long run. The reason we have all the stupid ass laws and regulations is because of scared people demanding that their lawmakers act whenever something goes wrong. Then we are stuck with a ridculous law that doesn't actually make anything better. Case in point, good ole cannabis. I rest my case.:hump:
 

BuddhaDawg

Active Member
Oh you poor, poor person. I can see by your posts that you believe YOUR way is the only way. Nuanced thinking indeed! lol! We are on an unsustainable course. I'm an independent/libertarian. Go ahead and laugh. I'm not your purist libertarian who thinks their should be no govt. I do believe the govt. should be as small as possible. Can't you see, govts don't produce anything. They don't make things better in the long run. The reason we have all the stupid ass laws and regulations is because of scared people demanding that their lawmakers act whenever something goes wrong. Then we are stuck with a ridculous law that doesn't actually make anything better. Case in point, good ole cannabis. I rest my case.:hump:
Ad hominem argumentation... c'mon man.

Independent does not equate libertarian. I did not laugh, but I did chuckle. You are a self-denying Republican.

Gov't don't produce anything? (Please reflect longer on your statement)

Honestly, you do not have a case. (Please review my prior post)
 

Carthoris

Well-Known Member
Buddha, the founding fathers quite plainly said that the right to bare arms had as much to do with protecting themselves from our government as anyone else's government. I believe they all sat around and said "England is a bunch of assholes, I hope we don't get like that" "Yea, lets keep our guns so if we get power mad, someone can teach us a lesson" If you read my opening post, you will see the quotes from all of them on it. Like I said previously. 170 million unarmed people murdered by their governments in the last century for no reason. I don't see that governments have changed that much since then.
The problem with registration and ect is that the government should not be able to keep track of people who have guns - its none of their business. The only way registration would help you solve who shot someone is if they leave the gun at the scene of the crime which happens not that regularly. There is only 2 ways to deal with this, either force everyone to have weapons training in school and give out permits to buy at that time, or require background checks that they dont keep track of, like they do now. I don't mind having a background check. I think its pretty well proven that restrictive gun laws only keep legal people from buying guns and don't really do anything for crime.
 

doc111

Well-Known Member
Ad hominem argumentation... c'mon man.

Independent does not equate libertarian. I did not laugh, but I did chuckle. You are a self-denying Republican.

Gov't don't produce anything? (Please reflect longer on your statement)

Honestly, you do not have a case. (Please review my prior post)
Here we go with the ad hominem shit again. People need to read a dictionary. What do govts. produce? Self denying republican! ROFL!!!!!:lol:
 

rowlman

Well-Known Member
Doesn't matter bro. I was detained with a small amount of weed years ago. I had my 9mm S&W with me which was registered and I had a carry permit for it. I knew the cop so he cut me a break and didn't arrest me but he informed me that it was an automatic felony regardless of how much weed you had on you. A permit doesn't mean a damn thing! As for all the MMJ states??????? I don't know what their stance is on people with a medical card carrying or owning guns. If the feds get you though...........I don't think they give a shit about a state issued permit.:fire:
Carrying a gun with weed...and having a gun in your home are 2 total different things
 

doc111

Well-Known Member
Carrying a gun with weed...and having a gun in your home are 2 total different things
Tell that to the judge. They will try to hit you with a gun charge to if you are caught growing and have a gun in your home. They might not succeed. Then again, they might!:shock:
 

BuddhaDawg

Active Member
Here we go with the ad hominem shit again. People need to read a dictionary. What do govts. produce? Self denying republican! ROFL!!!!!:lol:
Defense, law, running infrastructure, and programs. The gov't production enables this fine nation which we live in. We can and should complain about how much better this country can be...we should strive for much better... but with all of that being said, this is a wonderful country to live in.

You can find a good dictionary online, since you did not understand the concept of ad hominem argumentation.

Self-denying Republican...maybe the truth will sink in this time around.
 

BuddhaDawg

Active Member
Don't let any of these raving liberals hear you say that!:o

Damn straight, I am a liberal. Proud of being a progressive...liberal...socialist...leftist...or left-wing.

Be thankful for your freedom, liberty and country because of those wonderful freethinking liberals!
 

BuddhaDawg

Active Member
That circumstance very rarely happens at all.

What does happen much more often is that a woman is raped at gunpoint.

What happens much more often is that an individual is shot by someone they know.

What happens much more often is that a child will accidental shoot themselves or another.

Your emotionally charged argument is hardly convincing.

So sorry Johnnyorganic. But I do support responsible and regulated gun ownership.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Damn straight, I am a liberal. Proud of being a progressive...liberal...socialist...leftist...or left-wing.

Be thankful for your freedom, liberty and country because of those wonderful freethinking liberals!
The meanings have changed since 1776. The founding fathers weren't Liberals in todays sense. A classical Liberal is much closer to the libertarian point of view today. Thomas Jefferson would be appalled at what the term has come to mean today. Todays' Liberals really believe the bigger the government the better. Like somehow it can solve problems. Government produces nothing like Doc said. You think a government agency builds bridges? People build bridges. A utopian society is impossible as long as man is involved, it matters not whether you are a Libertarian, a democrat or a republican or a anarchist. In Switzerland EVERYONE owns a military rifle, they have the lowest crime rates in the world, the lowest incidence of gun violence in the world. Every year they have a HUGE shooting competition attended by half the country, those Swiss cheese eatin bastards love guns. And they don't get involved in Wars either. Who woulda thunk that the most well armed country in the world does not engage in war, think about that.
 

doc111

Well-Known Member
The meanings have changed since 1776. The founding fathers weren't Liberals in todays sense. A classical Liberal is much closer to the libertarian point of view today. Thomas Jefferson would be appalled at what the term has come to mean today. Todays' Liberals really believe the bigger the government the better. Like somehow it can solve problems. Government produces nothing like Doc said. You think a government agency builds bridges? People build bridges. A utopian society is impossible as long as man is involved, it matters not whether you are a Libertarian, a democrat or a republican or a anarchist. In Switzerland EVERYONE owns a military rifle, they have the lowest crime rates in the world, the lowest incidence of gun violence in the world. Every year they have a HUGE shooting competition attended by half the country, those Swiss cheese eatin bastards love guns. And they don't get involved in Wars either. Who woulda thunk that the most well armed country in the world does not engage in war, think about that.
Coudn't have said it better myself.:clap:
 
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