doc111
Well-Known Member
Stun guns work SOMETIMES on drug fueled psychos. Sometimes they don't. Why are you getting defensive? We're just having a friendly debate.
Why are so many growers against gun ownership?
- Thread starter Carthoris
- Start date
Ok. Show of hands, who here has been 'stunned' by a stun gun? I have, how about the rest of you? It wasn't a negative experience for me, I've done worse things to myself on accident. Of course, it wasnt a cop wearing a batman crusader belt full of gadgets trying to arrest me, it was a friend I basically forced to do it. I have also breathed in tear gas and eaten/breathed pepper spray. If I can do it sober, Im sure a PCP addict or crack addict wont be as bothered as me. That being said - entirely not the point. What gives you(anti gun nuts) the right to tell me that I cannot defend myself (the gun nut) like the human race has been defending itself for its entire existence? I have right per law to protect myself, and per reality. Yes, reality - If Im not allowed to protect myself with whatever I can muster, then why is a lion allowed to fight a hyena? Is a rat allowed to use its nails/teeth against a snake? Where do you draw the line? Why is my ability to protect myself not more important than your ability to not like what Im doing?
Your dad taught you how to handle a gun? How come you don't teach your own kids? You think your children will never see a gun just because their isn't one in your house? You gonna lock them in their rooms forever?
Mindmelted
Well-Known Member
And what is worse is this guy seems to think that nothing else in his house will kill his kids.
What a fucking fairy tale this guy lives in if he belives a gun is the most dangerous thing in his house or yard at that matter.
Since to be living in fucking fantasy land....
What a fucking fairy tale this guy lives in if he belives a gun is the most dangerous thing in his house or yard at that matter.
Since to be living in fucking fantasy land....
blazin256
Well-Known Member
fuck you dude, if you dont want to be chastised you should find better arguments. your logic is flawed and its obvious to everyone here.
doc111
Well-Known Member
I have to agree.
Twistedfunk
Active Member
My logic is very sound. If you need help figuring out what a "logical fallacy" is look here http://www.logicalfallacies.info/.
The responses I'm seeing are becoming very vulgar and aggressive. Yes there are other things in my house that can harm my children but not a single one of them is a designed killing machine. I can not understand why people who are so informed about firearms choose to remain ignorant of that very fact.
Neither parent taught me to use a gun. This is the problem with talking to any of you. You are either skimming my posts or lumping my posts in with others who I do not share an opinion with. You are out to attack someone. I AGREED with you but I have a slightly different outlook so you are grabbing your shovels and pitchforks. Chill out. It doesn't need to be all "FUCK YOU DUDE", "YOUR LIVING IN A FUCKING FANTASY", you folks are seriously going overboard here. You are getting angry at me for acknowledging the danger a firearm poses. I recognize the dangers of everything I keep around my children and I choose not to add another to that equation. My logic is flawed? I live in a fairytale? Review that website and show me how my logic is flawed because I aced Logic in college. I'm the one living in a fantasy? I know people who have lost their lives and lives of family members, including children, because they brought a firearm into the home. I make judgments based upon facts and experience. My priorities, clearly, are vastly different from those of your own, that much is clear. You are incredibly short sighted if you think I'm wrong simply because I do not agree with you even though we are in very different situations in life.
or
Noway, fuck you dude, you're wrong because you don't agree with me!!! lolol AMIRITEGUYS?
I already answered the OPs question. Grow up. I'm done trying to show you an alternative perspective.
The responses I'm seeing are becoming very vulgar and aggressive. Yes there are other things in my house that can harm my children but not a single one of them is a designed killing machine. I can not understand why people who are so informed about firearms choose to remain ignorant of that very fact.
Neither parent taught me to use a gun. This is the problem with talking to any of you. You are either skimming my posts or lumping my posts in with others who I do not share an opinion with. You are out to attack someone. I AGREED with you but I have a slightly different outlook so you are grabbing your shovels and pitchforks. Chill out. It doesn't need to be all "FUCK YOU DUDE", "YOUR LIVING IN A FUCKING FANTASY", you folks are seriously going overboard here. You are getting angry at me for acknowledging the danger a firearm poses. I recognize the dangers of everything I keep around my children and I choose not to add another to that equation. My logic is flawed? I live in a fairytale? Review that website and show me how my logic is flawed because I aced Logic in college. I'm the one living in a fantasy? I know people who have lost their lives and lives of family members, including children, because they brought a firearm into the home. I make judgments based upon facts and experience. My priorities, clearly, are vastly different from those of your own, that much is clear. You are incredibly short sighted if you think I'm wrong simply because I do not agree with you even though we are in very different situations in life.
or
Noway, fuck you dude, you're wrong because you don't agree with me!!! lolol AMIRITEGUYS?
I already answered the OPs question. Grow up. I'm done trying to show you an alternative perspective.
Twistedfunk
Active Member
You want flawed logic?
How come you don't teach your own kids to smoke crack? You think your children will never see someone smoking crack just because it isn't in your house? You gonna lock them in their rooms forever?
You assumed my dad taught me to handle a gun. I'm not sure why since i never said that. These responses all lead me to believe that either A) You guys aren't actually reading my posts and just want someone to argue with or B) You guys lack the reading comprehension skills necessary to fully comprehend what I am writing.
Twistedfunk
Active Member
http://thebroadside.freedomblogging.com/2010/04/01/drugs-guns/ That's the fairytale land I live in. Its called CO. The local laws were one of the major reasons I listed for not owning a gun. It is quite literally, out of my hands. I'm sure this won't stop you from the personal attacks, though.
Having a legal right to consume/grow marijuana, waves my right to bare arms. Can we go ahead and leave it at that? Write the state of Colorado a strongly worded letter.
Having a legal right to consume/grow marijuana, waves my right to bare arms. Can we go ahead and leave it at that? Write the state of Colorado a strongly worded letter.
blazin256
Well-Known Member
so what he got the relative wrong? is him connecting someone that teaches children at a young age to your dad flawed?
thats why i said fuck you in case you were wondering. gee there's this saying im trying to remember...something about stones and glass houses? but yea, guns are lethal i agree. if you dont like it, there's always england. or whatever country that is that even the cops dont carry guns.
Twistedfunk
Active Member
I learned at Christian camp, scroll up and you can see where I said that. You are riding my dick simply for acting in accordance with my local laws. Whether or not I agree with it. Owning a gun and growing cannabis are illegal in my state. Are you suggesting that I break the law thus ensuring my children have to spend the next 10 years of their lives without a father if i get caught? THAT is my main concern. I do not disagree with guns. I would own a gun, whether or not I cultivated cannabis, if I did not have children living with me. I've already stated this but maybe you missed my previous posts, as you have already displayed.
It is important to point out, seeing as how it was left out previously, that I have had my home raided by law enforcement on 3 separate occasions. If I kept a firearm in my home or vehicle and it had been confiscated, permit or no, I would be in jail right now.
p.s. He based an argument upon his assumption. An assumption that was incorrect. Basing an argument upon an assumption is an example of flawed logic.
It is important to point out, seeing as how it was left out previously, that I have had my home raided by law enforcement on 3 separate occasions. If I kept a firearm in my home or vehicle and it had been confiscated, permit or no, I would be in jail right now.
p.s. He based an argument upon his assumption. An assumption that was incorrect. Basing an argument upon an assumption is an example of flawed logic.
Evil Buddies
Ganja King
He based an argument upon his assumption. An assumption that was incorrect. Basing an argument upon an assumption is an example of flawed logic.
That was a good line and so true i see the relevance in it everyday. I might have to change it around but will probably use it thanx
Evil
That was a good line and so true i see the relevance in it everyday. I might have to change it around but will probably use it thanx
Evil
doc111
Well-Known Member
I don't really see anybody getting that vulgar or aggressive with you dude. If you can't handle the heat then stay out of the politics forum. Nobody is forcing you to continue posting or reading responses. We get it. You don't like guns but you don't have that much of a problem with people owning them if they are responsible. I've never seen somebody get their panties in such a twist over nothing.
3lions
New Member
Guns are to kill, there is no other reason for them is there? Many of us don't really see a distinction between people and animals so killing either is shitty. Okay, there are actually worthy uses, liek target shooting and all that, but can be done on ranges and at clubs which would negate the need for ownership. Hey, nowadays there is alternatives anyway to guns and bullets, lazers n techy stuff whatever.
When it comes to controversial subjects then all people will never agree. The logical thing for any 'being' who wants to progress would be to look at things subjectively and ask simple questions, like;
What good have guns done in the last 200 years or so? I mean okay, lets skip past murders and wars and stuff? Hmmmm
Personally it doesn't affect me really but a better future will benefit any kids I might yet have so it would be nice to think that as humans we didnt have use for killing instruments fullstop and the sporting people find their perfect non lethal weapon of fun
When it comes to controversial subjects then all people will never agree. The logical thing for any 'being' who wants to progress would be to look at things subjectively and ask simple questions, like;
What good have guns done in the last 200 years or so? I mean okay, lets skip past murders and wars and stuff? Hmmmm
Personally it doesn't affect me really but a better future will benefit any kids I might yet have so it would be nice to think that as humans we didnt have use for killing instruments fullstop and the sporting people find their perfect non lethal weapon of fun
Twisted, a big problem with people who don't support gun rights(I'm not saying you don't) is they say its for a multitude of reasons, but its really they just don't like them. When a gun owner sees someone say "guns are very dangerous" or any of the other typical comments, we kind of bristle because we know its all word play and guns aren't anymore dangerous than the rest of the things in your home. What they were made for doesn't really matter. If guns were made to kill, so were knives. "Yea, but my knives were made to cut my food" Knives were probably invented to kill animals. Most guns made today aren't sold with a "go forth and murder" sticker on them, they are sold for hobby, sport, and protection. I own guns because I like them, especially antique ones.
Another reason you are probably getting beat on is when you are proven wrong, you immediately went and started talking about a different and equally illogical reason.
Twisted:'Yes there are other things in my house that can harm my children but not a single one of them is a designed killing machine.'
What exactly were knives invented for? The 20 or 30 of them the average household has weren't invented to kill? Im pretty sure butter was a fairly recent invention, so they weren't for making toast.
Twisted: "You are getting angry at me for acknowledging the danger a firearm poses"
Are you saying in your opinion, that they pose a danger more than any other item in your house, that They pose any danger, or that they pose a real and serious threat to the lives of children? Threats are all around, from knives to plastic bags to your pet dog.. that step at the entrance to your house.
10 million swimming pools in US, and 9000 deaths of children a year. That means 1 in 1111 pools will kill a child this year.
350 million guns in the US, and about 2000 deaths of children. That means 1 in 175,000 guns will kill a child. (These include the group 'teens' which probably means 19 year olds too, which aren't children)
The numbers are harder to find for children in car accidents, and its something around 5000 for 0-12 and 10000 for 12-19. There are about 150 million cars. So 1 in 10,000 cars will kill a child this year.
Is pretty obvious which are the most deadly of those three. It ain't the guns. If fairly accurate (never can be 100% with these things) numbers being used to deduce that guns are MUCH MUCH less of a threat than things you don't think twice about letting your children get in (cars and pools) isn't logic, then exactly what is logic? Making things up based on opinions?
Another reason you are probably getting beat on is when you are proven wrong, you immediately went and started talking about a different and equally illogical reason.
Twisted:'Yes there are other things in my house that can harm my children but not a single one of them is a designed killing machine.'
What exactly were knives invented for? The 20 or 30 of them the average household has weren't invented to kill? Im pretty sure butter was a fairly recent invention, so they weren't for making toast.
Twisted: "You are getting angry at me for acknowledging the danger a firearm poses"
Are you saying in your opinion, that they pose a danger more than any other item in your house, that They pose any danger, or that they pose a real and serious threat to the lives of children? Threats are all around, from knives to plastic bags to your pet dog.. that step at the entrance to your house.
10 million swimming pools in US, and 9000 deaths of children a year. That means 1 in 1111 pools will kill a child this year.
350 million guns in the US, and about 2000 deaths of children. That means 1 in 175,000 guns will kill a child. (These include the group 'teens' which probably means 19 year olds too, which aren't children)
The numbers are harder to find for children in car accidents, and its something around 5000 for 0-12 and 10000 for 12-19. There are about 150 million cars. So 1 in 10,000 cars will kill a child this year.
Is pretty obvious which are the most deadly of those three. It ain't the guns. If fairly accurate (never can be 100% with these things) numbers being used to deduce that guns are MUCH MUCH less of a threat than things you don't think twice about letting your children get in (cars and pools) isn't logic, then exactly what is logic? Making things up based on opinions?
3lions,
Right to bare arms is a constitutional right. The reason for that is because the founding fathers didn't trust the government to not end up like England's. They decided that the people should have weapons and be able to protect themselves against their government.
Leading non-natural cause of death in the last 200 years is.. governments. Yes, 170 million unarmed people murdered by governments(more than died in wars by a long shot). Not combatants, not terrorists, just people. Do you think they would get away with killing tens of millions in America like they did in Russia and China? If you think it can't happen, consider how fast Russia went down the path, or how Germany went from a democracy to what it became.
If guns are removed from private ownership then only the government has guns - this was what the entire constitution was meant to prevent. Governments are not to be trusted, we only suffer under one because otherwise something worse would happen. Our constitution and Bill of Rights is there to protect the people from the Government of the United States, no other reason. If the founders of the country didn't think that eventually the Government would try to take away those rights they would of never written them down.
Then there is the obvious rebuttal: What good have 22" gold rims done? What good do swimming pools do? What good does antique glass do?
Right to bare arms is a constitutional right. The reason for that is because the founding fathers didn't trust the government to not end up like England's. They decided that the people should have weapons and be able to protect themselves against their government.
Leading non-natural cause of death in the last 200 years is.. governments. Yes, 170 million unarmed people murdered by governments(more than died in wars by a long shot). Not combatants, not terrorists, just people. Do you think they would get away with killing tens of millions in America like they did in Russia and China? If you think it can't happen, consider how fast Russia went down the path, or how Germany went from a democracy to what it became.
If guns are removed from private ownership then only the government has guns - this was what the entire constitution was meant to prevent. Governments are not to be trusted, we only suffer under one because otherwise something worse would happen. Our constitution and Bill of Rights is there to protect the people from the Government of the United States, no other reason. If the founders of the country didn't think that eventually the Government would try to take away those rights they would of never written them down.
Then there is the obvious rebuttal: What good have 22" gold rims done? What good do swimming pools do? What good does antique glass do?
Twistedfunk
Active Member
You compare the danger of a loaded gun in a child's hand to that of doorstep? This is why anti-gun people can't take pro-gun propaganda seriously. Too many pro-gun enthusiasts aren't willing to acknowledge what everyone else can see is obvious. Even though I'm not anti-gun, I called shenanigans on nonsense and got the 5th degree about all sorts of stuff. Speak honestly and you may change someone's mind.
Twisted, I don't see how giving you straight statistics about why guns aren't as dangerous as other things isn't honest. I compared nothing, I was just pointing out that dangers are all over. If the only thing you saw was 'doorsteps are about as dangerous as loaded guns in childrens hands' maybe you should go back and try to take reading again, ye who has accused everyone of not reading what they are replying to. I suppose the only logical reply to that would be....
The giant grasshopper ate my monkey and asphincter says what.
Yea, it is about as sensible as your reply.
The giant grasshopper ate my monkey and asphincter says what.
Yea, it is about as sensible as your reply.
Twistedfunk
Active Member
A child not being able to swim is what causes a child to drown in a pool. A bullet fired from a gun is different than water. Are you saying that I am more likely to die if i am exposed to water than a bullet fired from a gun? This is ridiculous. I've obviously been trolled. Goodbye.