Do Not Vote For Legalization Or You Are Stupid

Needofweed

Active Member
No country in the world has legalized marijuana to the extent of massproduction and taxation that prop 19 suggests.

california needs to take a duth approach at it.

The regulations

The Dutch have divided drugs into two groups, depending on their influence on human health – soft drugs and hard drugs. Hard drugs as cocaine, LSD, morphine, heroin are forbidden in the Netherlands as in any other country.
Soft drugs as cannabis in all its forms ([URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL], hashish, hash oil) and hallucinogenic mushrooms (so called magic mushrooms or paddos – from Dutch: paddestoel - mushroom) are legal under condition of so called “personal use”. As a result smoking of cannabis even in public, is not prosecuted as well as selling it although technically illegal under still valid Opium Act (dating from 1919, cannabis added as drug in 1950), is widely tolerated provided that it happens in a limited, controlled way (in a coffee shop, small portions, 5 grams maximum transaction, not many portions on stock, sale only to adults, no minors on the premises, no advertisement of drugs, the local municipality did not give the order to close the coffee shop).
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
I agree that they would be able to produce high quality weed no doubt. What i dont understand is why it would be cheaper.
It's largely going to depend on the amount of commercial growing allowed by counties. Most of the price of bud has to do with the risk involved with growing it. If a significant portion of the current crop of medical/illegal growers get commercial permits, but will be very cheap.

One thing no one should expect is any immediate price difference either way. It'll take time for retail prices to go either way.

I grow myself both indoor and out,I usually cant get of about 14-16 oz every 2 1/2 months indoor only.It coast me about $950 to do this so I get off paying about $63 a oz and Im a small grower, so my coast is higher?
That seems really expensive. What kind of system? My expenses for indoor (hydro, nice nuts) are around $35 per z.

The more you grow in a spot the lower your expenses. higher yield per watt, buying nutrients in bulk, etc.

Now I now 3 other growers who grow a lot more than me and every now and then I run out between harvests so i go buy some bud of them for no more than $120 an oz.Those massive grow ops in oakland still have to pay for electricity+water+nutrients+manpower+shipping+secruity,and+taxes.So I dont know if they will be able to bring the price of production lower than $63 an oz?
Yes they will. All those things become cheaper on a large scale except electricity and water. Those things become cheaper because they will be on agricultural price scaling.

Oh and one other thing,proponent of prop19 say it will genrate 1.4 billion dollors anualy for the state but that figgure is base on todays marketprice of "$300" an oz.But at the same tim Ive read that prices are going to drop down to "$30" an oz. thats a 90% drop in price so its a 90% drop in tax revevue.So thats only 140,000,000 dolloers anually.that a down fall of 1.260 billion dollors a year.So whats up with that? Makes me think that they would want to keep prices high.
That's a fair point. I can't dispute the logic there.

Also - I hate it when they throw out that $30 per ounce figure. That's such bullshit. No way the price goes down that much on indoor even under ideal circumstances.
 

Needofweed

Active Member
I grow with a 1000w light with soil and that figgur of 950 is just a rough estimate, didnt want to lowball myself on coast.

I do think that the price will get cheap somewhat due to no more coast of "shadyness" put on buy sellers.
Personally I think prop19 will pass but not buy my vote. Just cant stand corpocracy .
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
I grow with a 1000w light with soil and that figgur of 950 is just a rough estimate, didnt want to lowball myself on coast.
You running your lights in the day time or at night?

Anyways. If you're running multiple lights + co2 you're yield per watt goes up quite a bit. Can't compare the costs of a one light system to a big system. Also once you're buying all your nutrients in 2.5g's or greater those costs go down significantly.

I do think that the price will get cheap somewhat due to no more coast of "shadyness" put on buy sellers.
Thats exactly right. If enough of the market shifts to legal growing that will cause a price drop. But the other variable is increased usage due to easy access. If more people start buying cannabis or start doing so more frequently that causes the price to go up.

So it all depends if there is an increase of usage, the size of that increase of usage/sales, and the volume of legal growing that is permitted. It's anyone guess how that will turn out in the end. I'd bet on a significant decrease in the end due to the removal of risk from the growing process.

My best guess on how this will go:

In the beginning there will be a temporary increase in price due to higher demand. People will go into dispensaries just because they can and smoke a little just because of the novelty of it being legal. Within 6 months the novelty will have worn off and prices will go back to the way they were.

Long term: more and more legal growing will be permitted over time which will result in a significant price drop. I'd guess high quality indoor ends up at ~$150 an ounce retail. this will take a minimum of a year, more likely 3-5 years.

I also think this will completely change how medical collectives work. I think every store front dispensary will switch to catering towards recreational use. I think collectives will be smaller and their products will be much cheaper than dispensaries. I think medical collectives will just be medical grower direct to patient sales with no middle men, no dispensary overhead. Essentially, I think medical patients will end up getting their meds near wholesale prices with the retailer cut out of the process.
 

1gamma45

Active Member
Ummmm let see yes I can grow better myself.

Ummmm they say that 100% of all statistcs are made up.

Sniff sniff I smell the stink of a troll.

Back to bridge troll.


Nothing to se here please dont feed the trolls.
 

tip top toker

Well-Known Member
Price drops would require nothing more than for growers and dealers to stop being greedy c**** like they are at present.
 

420God

Well-Known Member
Nothing is keeping anyone from investing in the larger corporations that are going to produce MJ on a large scale. There is the thing called the stock market, that's how most responsible people make money. Not sure why anyone would want to keep big business down if they invested there money right. Wish I would have invested in Walmart when everyone was saying no to that.
 

Sure Shot

Well-Known Member
It appears that there is a growing contingent of marijuana users and people associated with the industry who are fighting against efforts to make it legal for all adults. Marijuana users are an extremely diverse group. Whether it be medical or recreational use, they can be found in almost every demographic imaginable in America. As such, there are a wide variety of opinions on how marijuana should be treated by society at large, as well as how to achieve such goals. This shouldn’t be surprising, and there is always room for debate on what the best models and methods for reform should be. Recently, however, a disturbing trend has emerged.
It appears that there is a growing contingent of marijuana users and people associated with the industry, both legal and illicit, who are actively fighting against efforts to make marijuana legal for all adults. There are several arguments being thrown around to defend the status quo of marijuana prohibition. Some of those arguments are well intentioned but shortsighted. Some are downright malicious. The one commonality they have is their divisive effect on the movement at a time when unity is crucial to finally end the government’s war on marijuana users.
A common complaint is that, in a regulated marijuana market, big corporations will push out small businesses. This is an understandable fear, especially to someone who has spent his or her life, and risked imprisonment and persecution, trying to run a marijuana-related business. These people surely do not want to see a culture and industry that they love taken over by corporate interests and diluted. But corporations already control marijuana.
They are the cartels that heavily influence the market and bring death to our borders and our inner cities. They are the prison-builders that lobby for harsher sentencing so they can keep the cells full and the cash flowing. They are the pharmaceutical companies that stonewall cannabinoid research so they can keep pushing expensive pills.
Of course some big businesses are going to see opportunity in a newly legal and regulated marijuana market and will try to take advantage of it. And surely some of their practices will be detestable. Marijuana consumers have a right to choose, though. Big businesses cannot “ruin marijuana” any more than Coors has ruined beer. As with alcohol, with its thriving microbrew industry, there will inevitably be a large market for higher-quality, locally grown marijuana.
Another popular attack against potential reforms is that they do not go far enough. There are many people who feel very strongly about securing certain protections, whether they be the right to grow at home, amnesty for marijuana prisoners, personal possession limits, and so on. The most vocal among them feel so strongly that they would rather see a decent bill fail than pass without their inclusion.
While we can sit around dreaming about what the country would be like with “perfect” marijuana laws, the political reality is that we cannot get anywhere near there without taking incremental steps. We are fighting against more than seventy years of lies and propaganda, as well as entrenched corporate and government interests. By building on small victories, we can more easily pass improved laws and overturn bad portions of otherwise good laws. We cannot build on zero victories. While we sit around arguing about minor concessions and principles, people are going to jail or dying. We cannot afford to wait for the rest of the country to come around to the way of thinking of the more radical among us, even if we might agree with them.
The worst obstructionist arguments come from people who are doing just fine under prohibition. They come from the growers and dealers, who stand to lose a little bit of the tremendous amount of money they make in the illegal market. They come from the guys that think marijuana is only “cool” if it is unregulated, and don’t want to lose their status. They come from the young adults who simply do not care if it is legal or not, because they are going to do it anyway.
Never mind that their lifestyles come at the expense of others’ freedom! In all seriousness, if you want to be a cool, wealthy outlaw, here is some advice: develop a personality, and buy a motorcycle. The rest of us are sick of living our lives on the lam for you. If you cannot support marijuana reform because of such selfish reasoning, please remove yourself from the debate.
The time has never been better for making real progress in marijuana reform. As we propose new changes and laws, everyone should get a chance to voice their opinions or concerns. When we have a chance to pass improved marijuana laws, however, we need to present a united front. As long as someone can be arrested for marijuana in the United States, we need to support each other — even if we, as individuals, do not get exactly what we want. For registered voters in California, this means coming out to the polls on November 2 to vote yes on Proposition 19.
Source: AlterNet (US Web)
 

veggiegardener

Well-Known Member
It appears that there is a growing contingent of marijuana users and people associated with the industry who are fighting against efforts to make it legal for all adults. Marijuana users are an extremely diverse group. Whether it be medical or recreational use, they can be found in almost every demographic imaginable in America. As such, there are a wide variety of opinions on how marijuana should be treated by society at large, as well as how to achieve such goals. This shouldn’t be surprising, and there is always room for debate on what the best models and methods for reform should be. Recently, however, a disturbing trend has emerged.
It appears that there is a growing contingent of marijuana users and people associated with the industry, both legal and illicit, who are actively fighting against efforts to make marijuana legal for all adults. There are several arguments being thrown around to defend the status quo of marijuana prohibition. Some of those arguments are well intentioned but shortsighted. Some are downright malicious. The one commonality they have is their divisive effect on the movement at a time when unity is crucial to finally end the government’s war on marijuana users.
A common complaint is that, in a regulated marijuana market, big corporations will push out small businesses. This is an understandable fear, especially to someone who has spent his or her life, and risked imprisonment and persecution, trying to run a marijuana-related business. These people surely do not want to see a culture and industry that they love taken over by corporate interests and diluted. But corporations already control marijuana.
They are the cartels that heavily influence the market and bring death to our borders and our inner cities. They are the prison-builders that lobby for harsher sentencing so they can keep the cells full and the cash flowing. They are the pharmaceutical companies that stonewall cannabinoid research so they can keep pushing expensive pills.
Of course some big businesses are going to see opportunity in a newly legal and regulated marijuana market and will try to take advantage of it. And surely some of their practices will be detestable. Marijuana consumers have a right to choose, though. Big businesses cannot “ruin marijuana” any more than Coors has ruined beer. As with alcohol, with its thriving microbrew industry, there will inevitably be a large market for higher-quality, locally grown marijuana.
Another popular attack against potential reforms is that they do not go far enough. There are many people who feel very strongly about securing certain protections, whether they be the right to grow at home, amnesty for marijuana prisoners, personal possession limits, and so on. The most vocal among them feel so strongly that they would rather see a decent bill fail than pass without their inclusion.
While we can sit around dreaming about what the country would be like with “perfect” marijuana laws, the political reality is that we cannot get anywhere near there without taking incremental steps. We are fighting against more than seventy years of lies and propaganda, as well as entrenched corporate and government interests. By building on small victories, we can more easily pass improved laws and overturn bad portions of otherwise good laws. We cannot build on zero victories. While we sit around arguing about minor concessions and principles, people are going to jail or dying. We cannot afford to wait for the rest of the country to come around to the way of thinking of the more radical among us, even if we might agree with them.
The worst obstructionist arguments come from people who are doing just fine under prohibition. They come from the growers and dealers, who stand to lose a little bit of the tremendous amount of money they make in the illegal market. They come from the guys that think marijuana is only “cool” if it is unregulated, and don’t want to lose their status. They come from the young adults who simply do not care if it is legal or not, because they are going to do it anyway.
Never mind that their lifestyles come at the expense of others’ freedom! In all seriousness, if you want to be a cool, wealthy outlaw, here is some advice: develop a personality, and buy a motorcycle. The rest of us are sick of living our lives on the lam for you. If you cannot support marijuana reform because of such selfish reasoning, please remove yourself from the debate.
The time has never been better for making real progress in marijuana reform. As we propose new changes and laws, everyone should get a chance to voice their opinions or concerns. When we have a chance to pass improved marijuana laws, however, we need to present a united front. As long as someone can be arrested for marijuana in the United States, we need to support each other — even if we, as individuals, do not get exactly what we want. For registered voters in California, this means coming out to the polls on November 2 to vote yes on Proposition 19.
Source: AlterNet (US Web)
This is still bullshit, regardless of how many places you put it.
 

Raptured

Member
I agree that they would be able to produce high quality weed no doubt. What i dont understand is why it would be cheaper. Now before you blow your top let me explain. Weed now on average street price in my area is about 250 an oz, but you got to think that this price is not set up from the grower its from the retailer that marks up the price. I grow myself both indoor and out,I usually cant get of about 14-16 oz every 2 1/2 months indoor only.It coast me about $950 to do this so I get off paying about $63 a oz and Im a small grower, so my coast is higher? Now I now 3 other growers who grow a lot more than me and every now and then I run out between harvests so i go buy some bud of them for no more than $120 an oz.Those massive grow ops in oakland still have to pay for electricity+water+nutrients+manpower+shipping+secruity,and+taxes.So I dont know if they will be able to bring the price of production lower than $63 an oz?

Oh and one other thing,proponent of prop19 say it will genrate 1.4 billion dollors anualy for the state but that figgure is base on todays marketprice of "$300" an oz.But at the same tim Ive read that prices are going to drop down to "$30" an oz. thats a 90% drop in price so its a 90% drop in tax revevue.So thats only 140,000,000 dolloers anually.that a down fall of 1.260 billion dollors a year.So whats up with that? Makes me think that they would want to keep prices high.

If your a big time green house, with thousands upon thousands of acres of land and you want to grow marijuana.. which would all be set up with automated watering systems, with a few mexicans looking over the plants.. and have no restrictions to worry about as far as legal issues... and can grow to the utmost potential that every individual plant has to offer... dude.. there is gonna be so much weed in the market it will flood. Flooding on an epic proportion.. There will be a surplus of this crop and this will most definitely bring the prices way down.. Using the sun as the main light resource you could have vast amounts of marijuana for cheap money. Now if your using indoor lighting that all changes but damn... Its not a hard plant to grow and couple that with an experianced grow operation.. thats what I call easy money. Except now alot of different buisnesses small and large alike will be doing the same thing.. so competition will also bring down the prices .. I mean this is basic basic logical thinking here. I am not a fucking brain surgeon this is just common sense. The weed will be good and the prices fair.
 

Needofweed

Active Member
, with a few mexicans looking over the plants.. and have no restrictions to worry about as far as legal issues... .
yeah your a fucking racist bigot.

Oh yeah thousands upon thousand of acres,OK
Not to mention california alone consumes an estimated 13,000,000(thirteen million)grams a day, A DAY!
Plus these green house you speek of that will cover "thousands upon thousands of acres" will be first built in oakland wich has a higher coast of living than most of the rest of cali and it coast more to do business there comared to lets say Fresno so those Mexicans you refered too will probably be making more money than you.
 

Needofweed

Active Member
there is gonna be so much weed in the market it will flood. Flooding on an epic proportion.. There will be a surplus of this crop and this will most definitely bring the prices way down.. Using the sun as the main light resource you could have vast amounts of marijuana for cheap money. Now if your using indoor lighting that all changes but damn....

Plus the prop is called CONTROL,REGULAT, and tax act of 2010, NOT cover the whole entire state with plant and grow 400trillion tones and tax act of 2010.

And i was factering in indoor lighting.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Plus the prop is called CONTROL,REGULAT, and tax act of 2010, NOT cover the whole entire state with plant and grow 400trillion tones and tax act of 2010.

And i was factering in indoor lighting.
lol @ thinking the name matters. The PG&E/southern edison ballot measure that was designed to give them a permanent monopoly in California was called "Taxpayers Right to Vote Act ". Was it called the "give PG&E permanent control over the energy grid act"? No, it wasn't. Names of ballot measure are nothing more than the label that tests the best in focus groups. If they called it the "pot legalization act", it would lose badly. The only reason it is supported by voter is because it's marketed as taxing cannabis.
 

fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
lol @ thinking the name matters. The PG&E/southern edison ballot measure that was designed to give them a permanent monopoly in California was called "Taxpayers Right to Vote Act ". Was it called the "give PG&E permanent control over the energy grid act"? No, it wasn't. Names of ballot measure are nothing more than the label that tests the best in focus groups. If they called it the "pot legalization act", it would lose badly. The only reason it is supported by voter is because it's marketed as taxing cannabis.
so it's a 'trick" to get votes?

and i'm supposed to support this behavior?

:neutral:
 

Needofweed

Active Member
lol @ thinking the name matters. The PG&E/southern edison ballot measure that was designed to give them a permanent monopoly in California was called "Taxpayers Right to Vote Act ". Was it called the "give PG&E permanent control over the energy grid act"? No, it wasn't. Names of ballot measure are nothing more than the label that tests the best in focus groups. If they called it the "pot legalization act", it would lose badly. The only reason it is supported by voter is because it's marketed as taxing cannabis.
So your admitting that that they are lying to the public?
Yeah making up ballot names is just another why to trick the public.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
so it's a 'trick" to get votes?

and i'm supposed to support this behavior?

:neutral:
Then I guess you can vote no one pretty much every ballot measure in every election, because they all have deceptive titles.

Yes, you are supposed to support this behavior. Prohibition was built on a lie, if a lie is needed to end it, I'm fine with that. Prop 19 gives us everything we need to end prohibition through local activism. If the voters need to be tricked into ending prohibition, I'm ok with that. The reasons they oppose legalization are generally lies.

State and national politics is a dirty game. If you don't play it dirty, you lose. With out marketing legalization as "taxing cannabis", we have no legalization. It's not supported even in California. Marketing this prop as taxing instead of legalizing is a small price to pay. So yeah, you should support this behavior.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
So your admitting that that they are lying to the public?
I don't know if it's outright lying, but if you want to call it that, fine. There is definitely a level of deception involved. And you know what? It's worth it. Because that's the way we are going to get legalization. It's all Rovian politics. When you call it bud, weed, or pot, you get a negative reaction from the public filled with preconceived notions of lies they learned in their highschool DARE program. When you call it legalization, you get a majority against it.

When you call it "pot legalization" I guarantee the polling will be under 40% supporting it. When you call it "taxing cannabis" you get a majority supporting it.

That's how the game is played. Polling, focus groups, marketing... You may not like it, but they are a necessary weapon in the fight against legalization.

The people who have supported prohibition have been filling everyone's heads with lies for 70 years. You have to change the language used in order to fight that. People have a negative psychological association with marijuana and marijuana legalization. When you change the language you can actually have a conversation with someone about it and they'll listen. Many Californians have their mind made up about marijuana legalization, but they are willing to listen to a conversation about taxing cannabis to raise money for a broke state. Sure, both phrases talk about the exact same thing, and yes that is deceptive. But like I said, this is how the game is played. This is the big leagues.
 

Needofweed

Active Member
watch this video
Its kinda hard to understand the narator but you can read along

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_2_Rsy0mdE


I dont know if theres anyone out there that is a grower who plans on getting a license to sell.NORML has proposed that mj be sold with a label that tell the consumer the exact level of THC.So growers that do have there license to sell will not be able to sell what they grow without getting the strain/strains tested at a laboratory for THC level.How much does that coast? It would cheaper to buy it of big marijuana corporations that will have the money to test there strains.Just another way to eliminate all compotition.(im not saying this is fact just what I read and heard.)
 
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