Droopy, ridged, leaves and purple stems

[GodSlave]

Hello All,
Been reading a lot, first time post. Very informative site.

I am a long time hydro grower, but newly converted to soil.

I am currently having an issue with curled down leaves that are not droopy like wilt, but firm and ridged like a normal leaf. In addition to that, I have heavy purpling of the stems.

I just got done sexing this plant and she is returning to veg, was on 12/12 about 14 days, and has been back on 24 for the last 8. I know I should have taken clones before sexing, but I didn't have a choice this time because of space requirements, so she is being re-vegged to start a scrog. Also, if she looks a little strange in her branching, she is. Too long of a story, but she barely made it from the seed stage, with a little TLC she came out of it, just a little deformed lol.

I use Foxfarm Ocean Floor soil, and Fox Farm organic nutes (Big Bloom, Grow Big, and Tiger Bloom). This plant is only about 30 days old and the soil claims to be good for 30 days worth of feeding. IDk if that is true, but it's what it says. When I started to see the purple stems I thought it was prob time to start with a nute regimen because it was showing a possible P deficiency. So anyways, I've done one watering with the seedling dosage on the bottles (Big Bloom and Grow Big).

As you can see in the pictures it looks just like an over watering situation, but I do not believe that is the case because I let the soil get real dry and came home to the same problem today. I really feel like I need to water but I am stumped on this one and I don't want to water if that is the problem.
I'm wondering if the PH could be off and causing this problem? I can't seem to find a PH testing kit this time of the year, so I don't really know what my PH is like. I generally try to use distilled water, but sometimes I have to use bottled water or tap when in a pinch and out of distilled. I read a PH problem can cause P lock out, which might explain the purple stems?
If you look closely at the branch on the right hand side, you can see what looks to me like what I've seen of zinc deficiencies, which can also be from PH lock out, this is another reason I'm leaning towards the PH out of balance possibility.
I am going to gently remove a good bit of the soil and re-pot her and see if that fixes things.
What do y'all think?

Please chime in if you have any thoughts or ideas, I welcome anything!

Thanks in advance,
GS

 

[FuZZyBUDz]

going back into veg is NOT an easy process and it does hell to the hormones of the plant too.

 

[rzza]

what strain? looks like my LA woman. she just looks thirsty to me. and a bit N starved.

 

[rzza]

hi fuzzzzzzzzzz

 

[GodSlave]

@ FuZZ-Yeah, I know the re-veg stress is not good, but I didn't have a choice this go round.

@rzza- It's Trainwreck. I really don't think she is thirsty, the leaves are not limp like wilt, plus she looked like that b4 I watered last time (the first with nutes), and she still looks the same.

Any thoughts on the PH causing lock out?

Thanks for the replies!!!

 

[Troyzkoi]

It might have a Cal-Mag deficiency.... If you are using distilled water you must add cal-mag to it... both calcium and mamgnesium def. also show signs of purple stems...

 

[rzza]

@ FuZZ-Yeah, I know the re-veg stress is not good, but I didn't have a choice this go round.

@rzza- It's Trainwreck. I really don't think she is thirsty, the leaves are not limp like wilt, plus she looked like that b4 I watered last time (the first with nutes), and she still looks the same.

Any thoughts on the PH causing lock out?

Thanks for the replies!!!

if theirlocked out you would have seen much worse symptoms-earlier. in other words, they would have gradually started to look deficient. the color of the stems, i wouldnt even look at that at this age. so many strains develop purple stem, esp in veg stage. how big is that pot? volume?

 

[GodSlave]

It might have a Cal-Mag deficiency.... If you are using distilled water you must add cal-mag to it... both calcium and mamgnesium def. also show signs of purple stems...

Thanks for the reply... Yeah, that thought had crossed my mind too, and I was thinking next watering I did I would mix some epson salt in the water at the correct dose. How do you take care of the calcium?

GS

if theirlocked out you would have seen much worse symptoms-earlier. in other words, they would have gradually started to look deficient. the color of the stems, i wouldnt even look at that at this age. so many strains develop purple stem, esp in veg stage. how big is that pot? volume?

So, if I understand you correctly, you do not believe a lock out situation would come on slowly, but very rapidly? They are 5.5" pots, not sure of the volume. The plant is 10" tall.
Ordinarily I would agree with not worrying about the purple stems, except that it came on at roughly the same time as the droopy leaves.

Thanks for all the replies!
GS

 

[Troyzkoi]

Ag Lime 39% Ca 2% Mg
Oyster Shells 36% Ca .3% Mg
Gypsum 16% S 22% Ca
Mon. Rock Phos 3% P or(30%total P2O5) 29% Ca + Trace elements
Calphos 3% P or(20%total P2O5) 20% Ca + Trace elements

 

[lowrider2000]

if you cut a leaf off and it bleeds purple its a p deff for shour

 

[GodSlave]

Alright, well I believe I have a Ph imbalance and subsequent nute lockout, it's the most logical thing I can think of.

So tonight I went to Walmart and got a ph test kit for fish tanks, it's the best I could do this time of the year, there was absolutely nothing in lawn and garden except Christmas stuff. Why does Christmas seem to come sooner every year? lol, anyways back to the thread... So, I get the ph kit, get home, and realize it's only good for 6.0-7.6. Anything above or below just registers @ 6.0 or 7.6. So first I test my nute solution, 6.0 or worse. I then test the distilled, 6.0 or worse. Then I test tap water, 7.6 or worse. I ended up mixing tap (some that is purified) and nutes instead of distilled and nutes. I get a reading of 6.4, BINGO! Good enough for me.

So, I just got done transplanting her into fresh Fox Farm Ocean Floor, and I also stepped up a couple notches on the pot size, she was ready for a transplant anyway. I ran the root ball under running water and gently removed as much soil from the root ball as I could, so essentially she is in almost completely fresh soil.

Thanks for all the input

Only time will tell now...
GS

 

[Troyzkoi]

Gotta have that tester, very important for diagnosing... glad you have figured out you can use a combo distilled and tap to help find the right pH and also helps to keep some Ca and Mg in the water... Your water hardness testers will give you an idea of minerals 150ppm is best. Good idea on the transplant and Good Luck....

 

[assasinofyouth420]

Alright, well I believe I have a Ph imbalance and subsequent nute lockout, it's the most logical thing I can think of.

PH was my first guess. Assuming you meand rigid and not ridged. Theyre supposed to be ridged. I was having that same problem when my PH was off.

Lookin good though. Keep up the good work. The plant in my sig is about the same age. Are you going to start a journal thread?

 

[bird mcbride]

Alright, well I believe I have a Ph imbalance and subsequent nute lockout, it's the most logical thing I can think of.

So tonight I went to Walmart and got a ph test kit for fish tanks, it's the best I could do this time of the year, there was absolutely nothing in lawn and garden except Christmas stuff. Why does Christmas seem to come sooner every year? lol, anyways back to the thread... So, I get the ph kit, get home, and realize it's only good for 6.0-7.6. Anything above or below just registers @ 6.0 or 7.6. So first I test my nute solution, 6.0 or worse. I then test the distilled, 6.0 or worse. Then I test tap water, 7.6 or worse. I ended up mixing tap (some that is purified) and nutes instead of distilled and nutes. I get a reading of 6.4, BINGO! Good enough for me.

So, I just got done transplanting her into fresh Fox Farm Ocean Floor, and I also stepped up a couple notches on the pot size, she was ready for a transplant anyway. I ran the root ball under running water and gently removed as much soil from the root ball as I could, so essentially she is in almost completely fresh soil.

Thanks for all the input

Only time will tell now...
GS

This is what I would have done. It's very difficult to rebalance soil with the plant in it. Gently washing the roots is a good thing too.

 

[GodSlave]

@Troyzkoi- Thanks for the help. I do need a tester, agreed. Do you add the Mg and Ca with every watering or just occasionally?

@assasinofyouth420- Yeah, I messed up on the spelling lol. What I was trying to convey was how the leaves were drooped, but not limp. The stems and leaves were still firm. Nice grow you got going, I'll be watching that thread. As for the journal, yeah, I plan to keep updating, I should start a new thread though. My grow chamber is actually a prototype that I am working the kinks out of... a working, standing deep freeze. I am using the freezer's cooling unit to do my climate control by using a thermostat, maintaining my temps between 72-77. I just added CO2 and will be adding heat for the winter. But anyways, I'll leave all the goodies for later. Thanks again for the kind words.

@bird mcbride- I'm glad you chimed in because I was afraid I might have done the wrong thing by working with the roots. I was gentle, but it still kinda spooked me. She really hasn't changed much since the transplant, maybe even a little worse. I know she's stressed already because of the re-veg, and now the transplant, I hope I don't lose her...it's the last of my Trainwreck seeds, I got no males and shes the last one

Thanks everyone!
GS

 

[Troyzkoi]

@Troyzkoi- Thanks for the help. I do need a tester, agreed. Do you add the Mg and Ca with every watering or just occasionally?

@assasinofyouth420- Yeah, I messed up on the spelling lol. What I was trying to convey was how the leaves were drooped, but not limp. The stems and leaves were still firm. Nice grow you got going, I'll be watching that thread. As for the journal, yeah, I plan to keep updating, I should start a new thread though. My grow chamber is actually a prototype that I am working the kinks out of... a working, standing deep freeze. I am using the freezer's cooling unit to do my climate control by using a thermostat, maintaining my temps between 72-77. I just added CO2 and will be adding heat for the winter. But anyways, I'll leave all the goodies for later. Thanks again for the kind words.

@bird mcbride- I'm glad you chimed in because I was afraid I might have done the wrong thing by working with the roots. I was gentle, but it still kinda spooked me. She really hasn't changed much since the transplant, maybe even a little worse. I know she's stressed already because of the re-veg, and now the transplant, I hope I don't lose her...it's the last of my Trainwreck seeds, I got no males and shes the last one

Thanks everyone!
GS

If you are using the combo distilled/tap water none should be needed. Since you just transplanted and added soil you should be good, you do not want to get a lock out again. There should always be some in your water, 100-150ppm

 

[GodSlave]

Thanks again for all the replies!
Any thought on how long before I should see improvement in her? She is looking worse every day, more yellowing, and now the brown spots are starting. Any help is MUCH appreciated! She is my last Trainwreck and I don't want to lose her...

Thanks!
GS
http://myworld.ebay.com/goober209

 

[assasinofyouth420]

It really looks to me like your PH is off. And that could be locking out nutes.

 

[GodSlave]

grrrr! I don't have a soil tester, the only way is mail order this time of year, and I'm afraid of what she will look like by the time I get one. The Foxfarm soil is supposed to be PH balanced and I have only done one watering since the transplant. All other times when using fresh soil on new plants they thrive like crazy in the Foxfarm, so it's hard to imagine the PH would still be imbalanced. IDK, I'm completely stumped and really worried about my girl...

 

[assasinofyouth420]

Damn that sucks. Without the tester there is no way to be sure. Most home improvement stores should carry them. even during the winter. Have you flushed?