WHAT ABOUT ORGANIC HYDRO? that must sell pretty well!
you get the best of both worlds, natural wholesome and very pretty and clean! hmmmm I think I am on to something hahahaaha
Best Place to Grow: Humboldt, Oakland, Sebastopol, Santa Cruz or Redding?
- Thread starter Purple Smurf
- Start date
you get the best of both worlds, natural wholesome and very pretty and clean! hmmmm I think I am on to something hahahaaha
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
organic hydro is not that simple. and it lacks to "soily" taste that most relate to organics.WHAT ABOUT ORGANIC HYDRO? that must sell pretty well!
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
Yep. Organic hydro misses the point of organics IMO. Using organic hydro nuts is just a waste of money.
shortshack13
Member
the whole cali market is flooded with mid grade high prices in all the areas you speak of. alot of people think they can move, grow and make money threw the clubs but from my experience they all buy from the same people they have been getting from for years and years. if selling back is your motive then i would say forget it. your going to end up in jail because you wont be able to move your product (makes for illegal sales). good luck though
Lets take a step back and look at this. This statement about soily taste refers to the consumers experience with what they previously believe to be organics. When they think of organic pot they think of soily, natural outdoor bud. Others want perfectly manicured, beautiful bay dispensary quality hydroponic bud. Both have their draw backs IMO. The organic on one hand is totally natural but on the other hand it is outdoor from humbolt and while it might be the best outdoor you have had it is none the less outdoor. In the right corner wearing the green and white shorts we have urban hydro weighing in at 5.2 ounces. The hydro is beautiful and scientific in nature with no apparent flaws but it loses some of the quality that an organic grow has because it is commercially grown, chosen because it is a high yielder etc.
What I see is an a need for giving the consumer a new experience with organics. What is the real goal of the organic movement? to eat from the earth, without the bullshit that humans put into things. Well I know that hydroponics is a modern growing method but look at it this way, it is very pure, unadulterated you might say. It is the perfect way to grow organically IMO. You can make sure the grow is completely controlled, that no non organic contaminants are in the plants. That soily taste no longer needs to be s defining point for organics, it is just what the people are used to. Now they can have a quality organic product. I have grown in soil and hydroponically and for me hydroponics as a growth environment wins hands down and I believe to disqualify it as a method for organic cultivation is cavemanish and a step in the wrong direction.
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
Word. Anyone who's holding mids should just sit on that shit for now. Anyone selling mids right now is getting fucking jacked. I'm up in Arcata right now and here you can buy decent OD packs for 600, no joke. That's highway robbery. Anyone who hasn't gotten rid of it by now should wait for spring. Prices will bounce back in time. They always do.
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
max: your organic = outdoor statements couldn't be farther from the truth. most organic bud in dispensaries is indoor. most bud in dispensaries is indoor... all year.
hydro is not a bad way of growing, no hate. BUT the microbe communities that feed my plants in soil DO NOT exist in your hydro set up. The principles of ORGANICS is to feed to soil-life, which in turn feeds the plants. Now a biofilm can live on your hydro set up, but the diversity of rhizosphere life is nothing compared to soil life. So this results in a need to directly feed the roots, and not the rhizosphere life. This is why hydro-organics is inferior to soil organics. I worked at a dispensary for a long time, and have sampled tons of hydro-organics. I find it much closer to chem than organics.
SCCA
Active Member
After reading thorough this thread i thought i might mention a few things.
i totally agree that the market is flooded after outdoor harvest, many clubs will try to get you to let them take your mids on commission. but if the quality is there the clubs buy it on the spot and beg for more. the other thing i would mention is that Sebastopol and the rest of the western part of the county have a tendency to get fogged in during the summer, this last year there were many days that the fog didnt move out until after noon, even in mid summer. this can lead to slower growth and mold problems in the fall. if you are growing indoors then you will mostly be concerned with plant limits, but its one of those thing where if nobody knows what you got you wont need to be worried.
i totally agree that the market is flooded after outdoor harvest, many clubs will try to get you to let them take your mids on commission. but if the quality is there the clubs buy it on the spot and beg for more. the other thing i would mention is that Sebastopol and the rest of the western part of the county have a tendency to get fogged in during the summer, this last year there were many days that the fog didnt move out until after noon, even in mid summer. this can lead to slower growth and mold problems in the fall. if you are growing indoors then you will mostly be concerned with plant limits, but its one of those thing where if nobody knows what you got you wont need to be worried.
i'll take 20.
Hum215
Active Member
This is not legal advice, just an opinion:
The People v. Kelly established that there are no limits anywhere in the state any longer. However, it must be "reasonable" which is subject to interpretation. I am quite sure that county limits are just that... the county's interpretation of "reasonable". Just remember that the actual law has no limits; you may have to go to court to fight it... but IMO, you would win due to the People v. Kelly case law.
ALSO
Indoor organic? That is not really possible as far as I know. Maybe someone can educate me. If we are talking real and legally titled "OMRI organic certified", not just organic listed then I do not know of a single commercial nutrient available. The USDA requires rigorous testing before they allow an OMRI certification. If anyone knows of one that is actually OMRI Certified Organic, I'd love to know what it is. I've wanted to use a OMRI Certified organic solution for a long time, but I can't find one. If one's nutrient is not "OMRI certified" then it is illegal to call it "organic". Well, it is in the U.S. as well as violating CA laws. The USDA requirements simply must be met to call the end product "organic" and I doubt that is truly being done.
So, is there really any "certified organic" indoor? I am highly dubious of most of what people call "organic" products. After all if the compost you used didn't have "only OMRI certified organic materials" decaying then your compost wasn't actually "organic" neither could any crop grown with it.
I think we often mean that our crops are pesticide free and have been grown using mostly organic stuff to do it or some people do make their own tea and are "sure" it is organic.
I guess I'm just trying to ask, if real certified organic nutrient is this rare, if it is even available at all, how could all this indoor "organic" product exist?
The People v. Kelly established that there are no limits anywhere in the state any longer. However, it must be "reasonable" which is subject to interpretation. I am quite sure that county limits are just that... the county's interpretation of "reasonable". Just remember that the actual law has no limits; you may have to go to court to fight it... but IMO, you would win due to the People v. Kelly case law.
ALSO
Indoor organic? That is not really possible as far as I know. Maybe someone can educate me. If we are talking real and legally titled "OMRI organic certified", not just organic listed then I do not know of a single commercial nutrient available. The USDA requires rigorous testing before they allow an OMRI certification. If anyone knows of one that is actually OMRI Certified Organic, I'd love to know what it is. I've wanted to use a OMRI Certified organic solution for a long time, but I can't find one. If one's nutrient is not "OMRI certified" then it is illegal to call it "organic". Well, it is in the U.S. as well as violating CA laws. The USDA requirements simply must be met to call the end product "organic" and I doubt that is truly being done.
So, is there really any "certified organic" indoor? I am highly dubious of most of what people call "organic" products. After all if the compost you used didn't have "only OMRI certified organic materials" decaying then your compost wasn't actually "organic" neither could any crop grown with it.
I think we often mean that our crops are pesticide free and have been grown using mostly organic stuff to do it or some people do make their own tea and are "sure" it is organic.
I guess I'm just trying to ask, if real certified organic nutrient is this rare, if it is even available at all, how could all this indoor "organic" product exist?
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
You certainly can do indoor organics. I don't know about certified nutrients, but organics doesn't refer to the pesticides used. It's about using soil mixes and teas instead of chemical nutrients in order to achieve better tasting bud. TBH I don't really care if they are certified organics or not and long as the final product has that superior taste to it. But that's just me. I care about the final result only, not how I got there.
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
organic means many things, and yes there are many certified organic products for growing pot. i use biocanna which is omri listed. there are many more listing. Oregon has pretty good standards and if they won't carry it, it is usually for a reason.
925Grow'N
Active Member
I was talking to a grower who is part of a 3 person collective in Oakland. He was telling me that Berkeley has no limit and you can definately grow more in Berkeley than in Oakland. Plus you can't beat the people in Berkeley and their views towards medicinal cannibus, the community seems to accept it more. That's just my opinion (at least for the bay area). I've also heard Santa Cruz was another good location, Oakland seems to really try to embrace the medical marijuana alternative. I live in Alameda County in a city that doesn't state their own rules so I'm stuck with the standard low limit of plants.
I'm hoping to move out to Berkeley next year, great place.
I'm hoping to move out to Berkeley next year, great place.
Hum215
Active Member
Actually, synthetic pesticides are prohibited in organic farming. Its the law.
I guess we have a difference of semantics. If one googles the definition of "organic", one gets many definitions. However, the USDA has dictated the only definition legally allowed to be used when speaking of nutrients and produce. That is the definition I am using. After all, if we tell someone that we are "legal" then we should be 100% legal including the organic label. I'm just sayin'
So, based on what I am understanding...
Everyone has a different definition, but no one is actually trying to meet the official USDA definition?
So, what is the "gold standard test" that you use to consider "organic or not", if not the USDA's?
According to the medical grower's basic ethics... If I use a product that advertises organic ingredients, can I call that organic? That doesn't seem right since there is a legal definition and we choose to do what we want rather than follow the legal definition.
I'm not trying to be difficult here, I'm just trying to understand if the "organic" buds are truly organic by the legal definition or by the hippy definition. The way I see it, if it is not the legal definition then it must be lore. Just my opinion, FWIW.
Back to the OPs question.... I can only tell you that Humboldt is great if you are not greedy and are smart about keeping your paperwork up to date. I've had a number of law enforcement interactions over the years and all went very well. Stay away from the cities (stay out in the county) and you'll be fine. It is expensive to buy here and rentals are impossible for 215. There has been way way too much in damages and bad faith by a few bad growers. That has ruined the rental market here. So, don't expect to grow if you don't have some dough. Good luck wherever you land....
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
Are there legitimate benefits to seeking out certified organic products?
nice blog btw
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
Most people who do indoor organics are also deep into some hippie shit, so they don't use chem pesticides anyways.
Even in hydro I don't use them past vegging and even then only food safe. After this cycle I'm throwing out my hydro setup and going all organic. At that point I figure I might as well go all the way and do legit organics.
Anything other than soil based organics relying on nutrients in the soil + teas is just missing the point entirely. The point is to have a better tasting product. For me the test is the smoke it self. If it smokes like organics, it's organics for me. Usually that means going all the way. If you're feeding bottled nutrients (even called organic or natural) all the way up to the last week or two when you do your final flush, you aren't going to get that same rich organic taste.
With all due respect to hippie values, I could care less if something is all natural or not, I just want the best possible buds. Some people due it for other reasons, I just like the noticeable quality improvement you get through organics.
imagreenwitya
Well-Known Member
In Los Angeles, all the dope comes from Los Angeles (Mostly anyhow)
Shangeet
Active Member
I just point out - When consumers buy Certified Organic farm products, they can be certain that they are supporting farmers who take their stewardship roles so seriously that they have voluntarily accepted strict Federally-regulated standards:
Certified Organic farming systems are the ONLY farming systems in the United States that are REQUIRED by federal regulation to use an integrated package of management practices that maintain or improve the natural resources of the farm, including soil and water quality
Certified Organic farming systems are the ONLY farming systems in the United States that are REQUIRED by federal regulation to rely preferentially on preventative management practices to reduce the possibility of weed, insect, and disease problems, and to preferentially use nontoxic physical and mechanical methods to manage pest problems if they do occur; ONLY when these practices are insufficient to prevent or control crop pests, weeds, and diseases can organically-approved materials be used in Certified Organic farming systems
Certified organic farming systems are the ONLY farming systems in the United States that are REQUIRED by federal regulation to undergo a rigorous annual oversight and certification process to enforce these natural resource protection and pest-prevention requirements
Hum215
Active Member
I completely agree with your ideals here.
I should explain... I have a few character flaws.
One of which is that I am a zaelot for consumer rights and truth in advertising. Having a few decades of business experience, I've seen it all. I don't mind paying the price for something, but I want to get what I was promised. In the area of medical marijuana and "organic" this doesn't seem to be the case.Personally, I like organic because of the global impact and getting back to the way things were for the first 35K-100K years of human existence. Non-organics seem to be a creation of the modern age along with all sorts of diseases and depression that didn't seem to prevail yester-century. I also believe that we are over populated, so a good old fashioned famine might not be so bad. So, you see, it is a philosophical thing for me. I hadn't been able to find truly organic nutrients before this, so I am not professing to be an organic guy. I'd like to be, but I'm not.
I have your exact mindset. I want the best, damn the methods to get there as long as they are safe and ethical. However, I'd challenge you assertion that one cannot produce organic quality smoke by using bottled nutrients up until the end. My experience has shown differently. I find that curing has more to do with taste than the source of nutrients. My methods seem to fool even the most admit and self-confidant "organic-only gurus"
That is just my experience, YMMV.