Types of libertarians

[Johnnyorganic]

well exxxcccccuuuuuuuuuuse me for not wanting lead in my paint and minimum crash safety standards for my automobile. how foolish it is to burden these poor businesses by asking they produce products that will not harm or kill us. boo fucking hoo.

really, you will have to excuse me for not wanting cadmium in my child's shrek cup, which is what happens when you let business monitor themselves, as the cpsc did.

Don't want lead in your paint? Don't buy leaded paint.

Don't want chemicals in your child's Shrek cup? Don't buy the fucking cup.

Government is the only acceptable monopoly, so choose a product from a company that meets your standards. Vote with your dollar, Buck.

You may need a nanny. I don't.

does that mean i hate business? the affluent? success? only in your warped worldview, johnny. i just want business to act in the interests of the consumers from which they derive their wealth. i want affluence and success to be earned in an honest manner that does not put others at peril.

this should not be hard to understand.

It's very easy to understand. Progressives hate success both in word and in deed.

"Those evil, disgusting rich can keep a little more of their own money because the Republicans want to prevent a tax increase.

Unacceptable!"

yes, johnny. just keep believing the free market fairy will come and make everything alright.

if you wish really hard, the free market fairy will poop entrepreneurship under your pillow!

Wishing has nothing to do with it.

Planning and hard work have everything to do with it.

If your life is not exactly as you would have it, you must evaluate your life and determine what changes need to be made. Make adjustments and move forward.

 

[Johnnyorganic]

as you saw in my last reply, these emerging economies having workers dying on the line during heat waves.

i would call the complete lack of regulations very unreasonable.

So don't buy products sold by companies that manufacture overseas.

Problem solved.

but i bet the life of you and your loved ones is worth at least the cost of an airbag.

and i bet the life of your friend or family member working at that factory is worth the cost of ensuring reasonable, non lethal working conditions.

but i am not sure. you and i seem to have a different value system. you seem to place a premium on the ability of a corporation to make record profits, all safety and regulations be damned. i place a premium on safety of products and working conditions.

you can still make money AND provide safe products and working conditions. these two things are NOT mutually exclusive, you know.

I survived on the roads and highways for decades before airbags were required on automobiles.

In fact, one of my vehicles, the 1991 Jeep Wrangler has no air bags. DEAR GOD IN HEAVEN! SAVE ME!

my answer for why schools seem to be failing would include reference to your regressive, back assward state and its recent rewriting of what history our children will be taught. i wish texas never joined the union, and i say that sincerely. no offense, my texan friend. you and a few other texans i know get a pass....somewhat.

It will probably happen sooner than you or I suspect. The way things are heading, our Republic is not long for this world. The U.S. will balkanize and you can have your Worker's Paradise. I'll take Texas.

as far as preparing the students to make a living, they do the two most important jobs without ever opening a book: socialization and conformity.

Bullshit.

Pep rallies, birthday parties, and the Spanish Club have nothing whatsoever to do with the three Rs.

Fuck conformity.

obama is doing far better than previous administrations in encouraging americans to seek higher education, subsidizing their efforts to do so under the american opportunity tax credit. we never seem to hear a peep about that now though, do we?

Higher education is already subsidized and was a long time before the Messiah came along.

Q: Who needs to be encouraged to seek a college education?

A: Someone who has no business going to college.

 

[Johnnyorganic]

Enhanced automobile safety features actually encourage reckless driving.

It's called the Peltzman Effect.

Thanks government!

I love the smell of irony in the morning.

 

[NoDrama]

well exxxcccccuuuuuuuuuuse me for not wanting lead in my paint and minimum crash safety standards for my automobile. how foolish it is to burden these poor businesses by asking they produce products that will not harm or kill us. boo fucking hoo.

really, you will have to excuse me for not wanting cadmium in my child's shrek cup, which is what happens when you let business monitor themselves, as the cpsc did.

does that mean i hate business? the affluent? success? only in your warped worldview, johnny. i just want business to act in the interests of the consumers from which they derive their wealth. i want affluence and success to be earned in an honest manner that does not put others at peril.

this should not be hard to understand.

Which is more likely? Your child dies or is injured from Cadmium in a Shrek cup, or they are killed or injured by lightning as soon as they step out the front door?

Which is more likely to happen? A lion escapes from the zoo and attacks you while you sleep and eats your face for lunch, or you accidentally contract lead poisoning from a poorly made Chinese toy?

Which do you think is more realistic? You slip and fall at your home and break a bone or you eat a bad cucumber from the farmers market and get sick from E. Coli poisoning?


No matter how hard government tries, they cannot make you safer.

FYI the french fries at McDonalds contain .06PPM cadmium in them. Look it up. A well informed parent would never let their kids eat that poison coming from the golden Arches anyway so the point is moot if you are a good parent.

 

[NoDrama]

Enhanced automobile safety features actually encourage reckless driving.

It's called the Peltzman Effect.

Thanks government!

I love the smell of irony in the morning.

And its clearly obvious in these parts around winter time. People actually believe that a 4 wheel drive vehicle is impossible to crash even on glare ice, I see the dumb asses in the ditch upside down DAILY with their hopped up 4 wheel drive trucks and SUV's.

 

[NoDrama]

so i guess my main question to libertarians would be:

what is life worth to you?

when you shun livable wages, safe working conditions, safe products....people die.

that could mean your mother, your father, your wife, your children, your friend, your loved ones, or even YOU.

so what is the price of your life? your child's life? your mother's life?

You do realize that the survival rate for humans in the long run is zero right? All living things MUST die, it is the natural order.

 

[NLXSK1]

You do realize that the survival rate for humans in the long run is zero right? All living things MUST die, it is the natural order.

The government is working on that...

 

[UncleBuck]

Don't want lead in your paint? Don't buy leaded paint.

Don't want chemicals in your child's Shrek cup? Don't buy the fucking cup.

Government is the only acceptable monopoly, so choose a product from a company that meets your standards. Vote with your dollar, Buck.

you are completely incurable of this disease called 'freemarketcandonowrongitis'.

because i have the means and ability to test the lead content of paint.

because i have the means and ability to test for safe thresholds of cadmium in products.

next time i buy an auto, i will simply buy two. one to bring home and test for safety on my crash impact tester, and provided its impact rating is sufficient, i will drive the other one. not only does this keep all those *oppressive* and *burdensome* regulations of those angelic icons of free market, but it improves their bottom line! yay for free market solving *everything*!

note: read any word surrounded by asterisks with dripping amounts of sarcasm.

"Those evil, disgusting rich can keep a little more of their own money because the Republicans want to prevent a tax increase.

Unacceptable!"

you stuck your nose into this thread to protest a comic strip depicting different types of libertarians, and now you make this completely inaccurate caricature of progressives?

well if that ain't the margarine calling the butter an oleo, i don't know what is.

if you asked THIS progressive, i would say "this purposely-designed temporary tax cut which was designed to expire has proven that it does not serve the stimulative effect our economy needs while adding massive debt to our already large and looming deficit, and is thus not a good idea during a time when we need to be fiscally conservative".

you never seem to make that^^^ caricature though.

full circle fail.

 

[NLXSK1]

if you asked THIS progressive, i would say "this purposely-designed temporary tax cut which was designed to expire has proven that it does not serve the stimulative effect our economy needs while adding massive debt to our already large and looming deficit, and is thus not a good idea during a time when we need to be fiscally conservative".

By your logic, the government should just take 90% of everybody's income because the money they are receiving is not stimulative...

 

[UncleBuck]

So don't buy products sold by companies that manufacture overseas.

Problem solved.

that's pretty tough. you visited a lumber and hardware store lately? even the ones that are not big box stores are all chock full of made in china products.

i can't barely even get dressed without endorsing child labor nowadays.

why?

because people like yourself prefer child labor and unsafe working conditions to *oppressive* and *burdensome* government regulations.

why?

because of the almighty dollar. that false idol that you worship.

FUCK liveable wages and safe working conditions....so OPPRESSIVE and BURDENSOME.

let the free market shine....with CHILD LABOR and WORKERS DYING ON THE LINE!

Pep rallies, birthday parties, and the Spanish Club have nothing whatsoever to do with the three Rs.

Fuck conformity.

i never said the three r's were not important. what i will stand by is that the most basic and fundamental preparation to function in this world and hold stable employment is socialization and conformity.

some brilliant minds will blaze their own way with huge success despite lacking in these two areas, but they are the major exception.

yes, fuck conformity...but to a certain extent it is just necessary to function in this world.

the Messiah

yes, we get it. you don't like the president.

but parroting a label manufactured and advertised by fox news ain't exactly doing your appearance of intellect and savvy any favors.

in fact, it makes you look like a bit of a doofus.

yes, i said it. a doofus.

 

[UncleBuck]

By your logic, the government should just take 90% of everybody's income because the money they are receiving is not stimulative...

no, that is your false logic.

my position is that the top earners will not perish if we let the top rates return to where they were under clinton, a shocking 4 points higher.

if we are going to increase our debt and deficit (whatever happened to all this talk of fiscal conservatism i've been hearing?) and put something on the national credit card, it better pay itself back. this does not meet that criteria.

 

[UncleBuck]

Enhanced automobile safety features actually encourage reckless driving.

It's called the Peltzman Effect.

that may be, but safety features in automobiles probably save more lives despite the peltzman effect than no safety features at all.

that is just my guess though. i have no numbers to back me up and i do not feel like finding them. i will let you try to contradict me if you want.

 

[mouthmeetsoap]

Check this out; http://www.theatlanticwire.com/opinions/view/opinion/Can-a-Town-Survive-With-Nearly-No-Government-3215

Colorado Springs is taking a new approach to things as sort of an experiment. All Libertarians welcome. I read of a similar experiment where there were no traffic signs, lights, etc. with positive results. Here's the video; http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread620112/pg1

 

[Johnnyorganic]

you are completely incurable of this disease called 'freemarketcandonowrongitis'.

because i have the means and ability to test the lead content of paint.

because i have the means and ability to test for safe thresholds of cadmium in products.

next time i buy an auto, i will simply buy two. one to bring home and test for safety on my crash impact tester, and provided its impact rating is sufficient, i will drive the other one. not only does this keep all those *oppressive* and *burdensome* regulations of those angelic icons of free market, but it improves their bottom line! yay for free market solving *everything*!

note: read any word surrounded by asterisks with dripping amounts of sarcasm.

Simply *read* a copy of Consumer Reports.

No cartoons, though. Sorry.

you stuck your nose into this thread to protest a comic strip depicting different types of libertarians, and now you make this completely inaccurate caricature of progressives?

well if that ain't the margarine calling the butter an oleo, i don't know what is.

if you asked THIS progressive, i would say "this purposely-designed temporary tax cut which was designed to expire has proven that it does not serve the stimulative effect our economy needs while adding massive debt to our already large and looming deficit, and is thus not a good idea during a time when we need to be fiscally conservative".

you never seem to make that^^^ caricature though.

full circle fail.

I don't need a cartoon to channel Progressives, although they *might* require one to comprehend exactly what I am getting across.

 

[Rob Roy]

no, that is your false logic.

my position is that the top earners will not perish if we let the top rates return to where they were under clinton, a shocking 4 points higher.

if we are going to increase our debt and deficit (whatever happened to all this talk of fiscal conservatism i've been hearing?) and put something on the national credit card, it better pay itself back. this does not meet that criteria.

The national credit card...that's funny, no really it is comrade. Can I get a pony on my birthday or is the national credit card only to be used for emergencies like well you know take out chinese food and stuff like that?

 

[Johnnyorganic]

no, that is your false logic.

my position is that the top earners will not perish if we let the top rates return to where they were under clinton, a shocking 4 points higher.

if we are going to increase our debt and deficit (whatever happened to all this talk of fiscal conservatism i've been hearing?) and put something on the national credit card, it better pay itself back. this does not meet that criteria.

How refreshing it is to see a Progressive giving two shits about the National Debt and annual budget deficit.

The sunset measure of the Bush-era tax cuts was the brainchild of Tom Daschle. He, not the Conservatives, rammed this broomstick up the Chosen One's ass.

And any Proggie who claims the tax cuts did not benefit an economy staggered by the bursting tech bubble and stunned in the wake of 911 was just not paying attention.

I addressed this previously, but for you; I'll happily oblige.

Spending is the key; not revenue. The government collects plenty of revenue to meet its Constitutional obligation already.

Every time the government raises taxes, spending increases. Every time. Why do you think this time would be any different?

This ain't rocket surgery. We don't need a modern day Adam Smith to explain this.

Confine the spending to revenue collected, because vice-versa is not even remotely possible.

 

[NLXSK1]

And any Proggie who claims the tax cuts did not benefit an economy staggered by the bursting tech bubble and stunned in the wake of 911 was just not paying attention.

I like how Obama can say he created or *save* jobs and that the economy would be much worse without his stimulus with no proof but the decade long tax cuts hurt the economy and say that also with no proof...

 

[Johnnyorganic]

yes, i said it. a doofus.

Oh my! A Progressive is calling me names.

An individual who presumably believes in wealth redistribution; and a massive, over-reaching Federal government thinks I am a doofus.

Whatever shall I do?

 

[Johnnyorganic]

yes, we get it. you don't like the president.

My opinion of Brack has not changed. I have always been under the impression that he was an untested babe in the woods wholly unprepared for the job for which he campaigned.

My opinion of him as a thin-skinned, preening neophyte who sounds like a blithering idiot when out of arms reach of a teleprompter is the same as it ever was.

But, apparently I am not the only one who is unhappy with your Messiah. The extreme Left seems a bit exasperated with him currently because he is showing signs that he is finally waking up to reality.

Something far too many Donks absolutely refuse to do.

but parroting a label manufactured and advertised by fox news ain't exactly doing your appearance of intellect and savvy any favors.

And you are doing yourself no favors by making assumptions about where I get my information.

I get so tickled when I am accused of following Fox News. I refuse to have an idiot box in my home. I have not owned a television since 1998.

In fact, the only times I am exposed to Fox News is when I visit my parents. They are first rate examples of the Moral Majority Republicans who apparently terrify the Left. Ironically, as far as Fred and Ethyl are concerned, I am the Liberal.

 

[NoDrama]

To be honest, I too, like johnny, have noticed that Barack seems to be waking up to the gravity of the situation we are in. JFK would not be my favorite President of all time if he hadn't woken up towards the end there and tried to make a real change. Could Obama stop being a politician and become a man too? Time will tell and I hope he does grow a big brass pair. Its not enough to be the first 1/2 black president, he needs to do some real good for the futures of our children to go down in the history books as a good president. Otherwise he will be worse than Carter and give Darker skinned folks a bad rap for future presidencies.