Medi takes the Under Current RDWC system for a test drive, 6' x 8' Screen of Green.

[MediMary]

Showtime

,


pull up a

,


grab some

,


cause this is going to be a fun ride


So I recently got an Under Current System from cch2o and am going to be giving it a whirl and giving my fellow farmers an honest review.
I looked through the threads here and I couldn't find anyone else even running the UC system over here, which is crazy cause this is the largest site on the net.

Ok for those of you who don't know, here is what the system looks like, it ships within 3-5 days of payment if anyone wants to tag along with me. We can start an UnderCurrent group here on RIU.

Here is the owner talking about the Under Current

[video=youtube;c0KLri_5NvA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0KLri_5NvA[/video]

[video=youtube;eQ6bd1ACNNs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ6bd1ACNNs[/video]

 

[Heisenberg]

Heh, I was just looking at this very system a little while ago. Very interested to see if it is really any better than a DWC bucket. I'll certainly keep an eye on your progress. Good luck!

 

[woodsmaneh!]

I'm in,

How much growing experience do you have and with what type of systems? What food you going to use and what plants? How much light?

Thanks

 

[MediMary]

Heh, I was just looking at this very system a little while ago. Very interested to see if it is really any better than a DWC bucket. I'll certainly keep an eye on your progress. Good luck!

Nice to have you along Heisenberg, I enjoyed reading your microbe thread a couple days ago, very interesting. RDWC have some good and bads compared to regular DWC, ill go into my opinion on it a little later on.

I'm in,

How much growing experience do you have and with what type of systems? What food you going to use and what plants? How much light?

Thanks

Hey woodsmaneh! Thanks for stopping in, well I have been growing about 8 years, and around 4 years with variations on water culture, but there is always so much more to learn and understand. I have far from peaked.
I am going to be using Canna Aqua vega and flores, which is the recommended nutrient from CCH20,

I have yet to determine If I will be running beneficial or a sterile reservoir, Ill be touching base on and sharing some info from CCH20 when you are considering rather to run sterlire or benies.

I will probably be throwing 3000 watts at this scrog, maybe a little more or less as I have a couple other projects going as well.

So I hear in the future cch20 is going be sending out some type of lube product in the future to aid in putting the system together.
I used soap and water as the directions instructed, but those unis are super tight and you really got to lube them ladies up well and make sure everything is real wet and slippery for that pipe to slip in.
All joking aside though it really is a real pain in the ass trying to push the pvc into the uniseals using soap, and lube would be a great improvement.

Im ready to set sail on my maiden voyage but after getting everything all put together, I fill up the system and noticed a pretty bad leak, I should have checked for any cracks before putting together, DUH!

 

[MediMary]

The cracked PVC manifold
I decided to go ahead and try to fix the leak myself rather than call and request a replacement part manifold/
As the cuttings in the cloner are ready to rock and roll, and Im pretty handy with the D.I.Y.

 

[woodsmaneh!]

Give the old KY a try, it will not damage anything. LMAO

What you going to grow?

3000 great way to test it.

Three years under water has it been worth it, quality and yield?
What did you do the other 5?

I feel like it's Christmas again, a real grower doing a real test. Thank you.

 

[MediMary]

woodsmaneh!I will be growing Ograskals White urkel, and Lonestars Mary Jane. I also have a sour queen that might go in the system, but the flowering time on her is 12 weeks, where as the first two are around 9.
I have done a bit of everything, I have the most experience with DWC though, but enjoy light and airy mixes, perlite and peat 5 to 1, or expanded clay 5 to 1 is pretty easy to work with when doing drain to waste, I like hempys too.

Even though I have been growing for awhile, I have always been something of a lazy stoner, and just have been getting serious about growing top notch buds the last couple years and thats about when I switched to DWC, so I feel I have a pretty good base to test the system and give an accurate review.

Couple pictures of some of my last DWC harvest nugs.


My yields are always higher in water culture, but I believe this is a byproduct of the much shorter veg times this time of growing offers.

Nothing in my experience competes with the veg times in DWC/RDWC/HP Aero systems, once you get the plants up to the size you want them I get a very similar product using any medium regardless of soil, quality as of late has been really amazing.

 

[MediMary]

Hot Damn, been a bumpy start.

Well apparently im full of shit about being handy with the D.I.Y. .
LOL

I drained the system, took off the return manifold that was cracked, getting the PVC out of the Uniseals is WAY harder than getting it in there.


Cut off the broken 90,
Got the pieces cut, meassured twice, cut once, came out the same size, got the System back together, WATER BASED SEX LUBE MAKES THE PIPE SlIDING WAY EASIER, feeling pretty pimp about my fix it job.
Dan says the system does not need to be broken down between runs either, ill share the cleaning tip later on.

 

[MediMary]

Then to top it all off I think I got a bum air pump, the AP 40 doesnt seem to be putting out very much air at all at least compared to the videos and is pretty dang Hot to the touch.
I checked all the connections, made sure air was not leaking out anywhere, made sure the valves were open totally on the air divder, and I tried both the plastic air divder and the medal hydrofarm air divider that comes with the system.

Here is a couple pictures of the bubbles, not quite what I was expecting.

So besides the broken pvc 90, which was probably broken during shipping,I only have two problems with the UnderCurrent so far, and I'm pretty impressed with the system

1. The system is not really light proof, the blue 13 gallons containers although pretty sturdy are not opaque enough to keep light from shinning into the containers.
The pvc used also does let light leak through a bit, if you notice in my photos where I tried to replace the broken piece myself that the thickness of the pvc I used was much thicker than that which comes with the UC. I used the standard schedule 40 and UC uses schedule 125.
Also the design of the net pots, they need to be filled overflowing, or covered with a material to keep water from shinning into the containers.

2. If this air pump is functioning properly, then I don't think its sufficent and the larger ap pump should be used, or possibly a different brand.


On a side note even though the Uniseals are a bit tough to work with, I must say they work fairly well and are very cost efficient, in the past I have tried sourcing threaded bung fittings from my local plumber and they were ridiculous priced and would not be cost efficient for mass production.

 

[MediMary]

I read this article in Urban Garden Magazine, thought I would share since its about the UC,
The Water Room
Is your back aching from lugging endless sacks of soil, coco or other growth media in and out of your indoor garden? Then check out our latest blueprint, aptly named “The Water Room.” The idea is to grow monster tomato plants directly in a nutrient solution using a cutting-edge, modular Deep Water Culture (DWC) system called The Under Current™. But the liquid theme doesn’t end there. Water is also used to cool the garden using an ingenious chiller-based system created by Hydro Innovations.

Everest catches up with Dan and Stephen, the co-designers of this blueprint, to find out what logic exists beyond all this liquid!

GROWING IN WATER
Everest: Hi Dan. Let’s start by looking at the systems themselves. Am I right in thinking each 16 pot system requires both an air pump and a water pump?

Dan: That’s right, Everest. The inline water pump powers the negative solution displacement, which drives the Sub Current Culture (SCC) method. The linear, high efficiency air pumps provide the active aeration which supercharges the nutrient uptake.

Everest: So it runs 24/7 – even during the night cycle?

Dan: In properly aerated and balanced nutrient solution, plant roots can stay submerged 24/7, even through the dark cycle. Plants continue to metabolize nutrients and exchange gases in the dark, so keeping the solution moving aids in these processes. And remember, no timers for pumps means no worries!

Everest: How much solution is in each module?

Dan: We recommend an operating volume of approximately six gallons per module. That makes 100 gallons +/- in a 16XL (6 x 17 modules). A very small volume of solution is held in each joint (conduit) between the modules as well.

Everest: Is it the same for the bloom cycle?

Dan: We advise growers to drop the operating level to about four gallons per module during the fruit and flowering cycle. This helps ensure ample atmospheric oxygen uptake by the non submerged roots within the module. This oxygen exposure aids in proper fruit set and essential oil production as the plants mature. This technique can also mimic “drought conditions,” which triggers the plant to produce more oils as a means of reducing transpiration rates.

Everest: What about nutrient top-up?

Dan: The return module (epicenter) comes equipped with a high quality float valve built in for easy auto top-off. Each system also includes a bulkhead adapter for plumbing straight to your reservoir.

Everest: What about developing this set-up further with an auto-dosing system?

Dan: This system would work perfectly with an auto-doser like the Intellidose from AM. In this case you would plumb the Under Current (UC) float valve directly to a pure water source and let the Intellidose do the rest. Of course, you’ll need to set the doser to your specs, but then it’s on like Donkey Kong. The likelihood of a zero dump out run increases exponentially when a doser is used.

Everest: What EC should the top off res be balanced to?

Dan: When operated properly, top off should be balanced the same as the solution in the system. Traditionally hydro growers have been instructed to top off with half strength or pure water to avoid nutrient toxicity, but because the UC runs best with half strength nutes there is less of a chance of salt build-up. Ideally the solution in the system should stay balanced even as the plants use the nutrient and water. As a rule of thumb, if the nutrient EC/TDS rises as the solution is depleted you are likely running your levels too high to begin with. Conversely, if your EC/TDS drops it indicates you’ve started too low. Ultimately, as solution levels drop in the system the EC/TDS should stay stable; this is a good indicator that you’re dialed in. This EC/TDS stability will translate into improved plant health and greater pH stability to boot.

Everest: What if I experience drift in my nutes?

Dan: Correct it with your top off solutions. For example: a system started at 500ppm but has crept to 625ppm as the solution level has decreased. That’s a 25% increase, which can be easily offset by a top off res balanced at 25% below the initial 500ppm. This results in a top off res balanced at 375ppm to compensate. Ideally solution strength should stay constant as the plants consume it. This is a good indicator that minerals and water are being used at equal proportions.

Everest: What solution temperatures are optimal?

Dan: The system operates well anywhere from 65-80°F. We recommend maintaining a temperature between 68-72°F. This is a happy medium between optimum dissolved oxygen capacity and not chilling the nutrient solution so much that it slows the plant’s metabolism. If necessary, the water chiller can be easily adapted to the return pump.

Everest: Besides high water temps, what else can reduce dissolved oxygen levels in the system?

Dan: Elevated levels of dissolved solids can displace dissolved oxygen as they compete for real estate in the nutrient solution. So cool, half strength nutes are a perfect environment for high dissolved oxygen levels.

Everest: What dissolved oxygen levels should growers aim for in the UC?

Dan: We’ve tested on average +/- 9ppm of D.O. in solution. Water temps and quality will influence levels. As a point of reference, Dr. Elaine Ingham recommends no less than 6ppm to brew actively aerated teas.

Everest: You claim nutrient solution can last several weeks in the UC, but what about nutrient schedules that change by week?

Dan: Given that we encourage zero nutrient change outs, this does complicate things a bit. Best technique is to dilute any primary supplement into the top off reservoir.

Everest: How do you veg for the system?

Dan: Quad Tops are now available for the UC which allow up to four juvenile plants to be grown in each bucket. You can transplant our 5.5” heavy duty net pots right into your blooming UC rig. Other systems that veg well for the system include the GH Aeroflo2, AmHydro’s N.F.T., or transplant straight out of any aero cloner. Veg times in the UC are notoriously quick so start your fruiting cycles early to avoid overgrown madness. WE MEAN IT!

Everest: What grow media works best in the net pots?

Dan: Any non-wicking inert grow media tends to work best. Expanded clay pellets, growstones, silica stones, lava rock, sure to grow … to name a few. When using a wicking media like rockwool be sure to adjust the solution level to a point where it is not in contact with the media.

Everest: How much longer will nutrient stay viable vs. traditional ebb ‘n’ flow set-ups?

Dan: Time frames vary but typical change outs in E/F are about 7-10 days. In the UC, change outs should be necessary no sooner then 21-28 days. Many variables influence this time frame, so adjust your time frame to best meet your needs. Change nutes once they destabilize or become murky.

Everest: Is it a pain to clean in between crops?

Dan: Disassembly is not necessary. A bottle brush, green pad, biogreen and some elbow grease is all you need.

 

[MediMary]

I sent off an email this evening(Sat 1-15-11), I went ahead and requested a replacement return manifold, and sent a couple pictures of the bubbles to get some feedback on if my air pump is functioning properly.
I don't know about you guys, but customer service is what brings me back to a company.

I will let you guys know how long it takes to hear back from the company in response to my original inquiry, what they do to remedy the problem and how long it takes to implement whatever remedy they so choose.

 

[researchkitty]

They should have you one in 24 hours under any circumstance. No spare parts?? Keepin an eye on this thread as I want a UC16XL Good luck mate!

 

[TruenoAE86coupe]

Light leaks? they didn't make it light proof? It really makes me wonder if these systems are tested with anything before put on the market. I like the idea of this system, can't wait to see if it is worth a damn. Of course with the diagram you have, if i could find the seals you are talking about i could build this pretty easy with lowes buckets. Although i really wonder about the whole low (negative) pressure thing, seems troublesome.
Good luck, hope things go better from here on out for ya.

 

[MediMary]

I have a couple alitas, and a really nice whitewater regenerative blower which blows both the alita and pondmaster out of the water, but sadly I have those out on loan( I could ask for one back but they are all in use right now and mid mid grow, so that would be kinda whack),
I go to all the Department of Health meetings in my state for medical marijuana, and have met a few patients at the meetings who were much worse off than I so I lent out everything I wasn't using to fellow patients, and volunteer my time helping severely disabled patients in the program.

 

[Hydrotech364]

Looking good so far,soon you'll get those bubbles going soon.Sub'd.

 

[MediMary]

Light leaks? they didn't make it light proof? It really makes me wonder if these systems are tested with anything before put on the market. I like the idea of this system, can't wait to see if it is worth a damn. Of course with the diagram you have, if i could find the seals you are talking about i could build this pretty easy with lowes buckets. Although i really wonder about the whole low (negative) pressure thing, seems troublesome.
Good luck, hope things go better from here on out for ya.

No its not 100% light proof, most folks rocking the system get the stick on duct insulation and wrap the buckets, and I would have no problem doing that but I do think it should be included with the system standard, or you should at least be able to buy it on the cch20 website as an option.

I stopped by the home depot last time I was in the big city but they didnt have any(i live in the middle of nowhere), so am going to have to track some down online.

I like DIY, but going to keep this thread strictly on the UC, as some folks rather get something ready to go out of the box if they don't have the time, desire or ability to build a system, and this is the Only RDWC system on the market currently and the only system designed for growing large trees, allowing folks to keep their plant numbers down.

Looking good so far,soon you'll get those bubbles going soon.Sub'd.

Great to have you along for the ride my friend

 

[researchkitty]

The DIY was beat to death, and I mean to super dead horse death on thcfarmer.com and it was determined that the cost of buying one at a real online price (vs msrp) was pretty much the same as all the bullshit of the part ordering, and then you still have to put it together from scratch. They sourced everything out, the same buckets, same pumps, etc......... You can find the UC systems most times for about 15-20% off retail...........

 

[MediMary]

Kitty I couldnt agree more on the DIY aspect of it.

Have you actually seen anyone running an Under Current over here on RIU, I havnt came across a single grow over here, tits all the rage on the pharm.

 

[MediMary]

A little tidbit from Daniel I found talking about sterile or benies.

One of the inherent weaknesses in a "sterile" set up is the absence on life. It is this absence that can subject the plant roots to invasion by what equates to be the most resiliant and biocide resistant strains of pathogens.

A clean, mineral based nutrient run with homeopathic dosages of select beneficials is the most likely way to avoid DWC sudden death syndrome.

Sterility leaves a vacancy for disease organisms to fill....intro of bennies promotes the colonization of a plant symbiotic microbe which will out compete the pathogens....or at very least compete with them for territory in the root zone.

Bottom line.

***Root crown inoc with products like Great White and ZHO (Botanicare) which have myco properties which need constant root contact

***Aqueous inoc with bacillus Subtillus like Companion, Aquashield which can colonize in solution.

The rule of thumb in the UC with bennies is less is more, inoc without adding excessive biosolids. Its these biosolids that creat biofilms which cause anerobic layers which can lead to pathogen habitat.

Most relavent thing to consider.

Biocides will ultimately mutate the current pathogens that do exist into super strains of fusarium, phytophera, pythium, verticillium....whatever they might be. Very much like what has happened in hospitals with Staphylococcus infections becoming increasingly drug resistent.

Natural competition from indiginous beneficial microbes will keep these root diseases in check, keeping them from specializing into specimens that are evolved to resist antibiotic suppresion.

Moral of the story......sterility is a pretty slippery slope.

 

[Weedler]

Looks good!

Check out https://www.rollitup.org/dwc-bubbleponics/361430-how-breed-your-own-beneficial.html