Led Users Unite!
- Thread starter project fuoro
- Start date
Viagro
Well-Known Member
I think you'll be surprised by the performance.
yuckyganjaman
Member
i only got it to test it out on an autoflowering plant so we shall just see how things go 
i hope it isnt to bad lol
i hope it isnt to bad lol
Hudsonvalley82
Well-Known Member
If anything, get 4 cfls and toss them in there on the walls for side lighting. I actually tilt my leds inward from the farthest points of the grow room (the ends of the 5 foot length for this one) and put the cfls, (in my case hid) In the middle. Rotate the plants every two days that way across the week every plant gets a full dose of sidelighting from the LEDs. You will find your impressive yield under the canopy too that way.
Kaptain Kron
Well-Known Member
both dont let anyone discourage you with that bullshit ass poor heatsink design its not important unless your LED gets way hot and mine certainly does not so i dont see the need for an insanely beefy heat sink with fins and a lot of surface area, the flat plate of aluminum is workin just fine. I greatly dislike bridgelux LED's and i forget who was saying that blackstar uses them as well as cree but i dont think that is the case i asked victor he said cree ONLY
@yuckyganjaman If it has 200 LEDs for a total of 15W that would suggest that the individual LEDs are very weak. It should be good for seedlings but should aim for higher power for veg/flower.
@KK Are you suggesting blackstar to me or yucky or both?
dunit
Active Member
Is there any technical information or Grow Journals that back up the claim that heat sinks aren't needed? I find that very misleading.
If you look at the tech specs on ANY led they are thermally sensitive in both output intensity and spectrum stability. Feel free to doubt me and check it out yourself. I you go on any of the manufacturers web sites (of LED's) you can download their pdf product manuals. Their output is rated at T=25C. As the temp goes up the spectrum shifts downward and output decreases. I'm not talking huge amounts of heat. On many LED's by 35C their output has shifted by more than 30nm. When you are dealing with LED's who's output is only supposed to have a 40nm range that is a ton. It will put 75% of the output of the LED out of the intended spectral range.
For our purposes intensity and spectrum stability is critical to yield. Heat dissapation is very important. LED's are packed into a standard case with a plastic shield on the bottom. That's a lot of LED's producing heat in a small area with minimal air flow so the back side is the only place to cool them. I know that the air circulating out of the case doesn't feel hot but that not necessarily a good thing. It either means you have sufficient cooling or inadequate surface area to dissapate heat and transfer energy from the source to the coolant (air).
THE ONLY PANELS THAT DONT USE HEAT SINKS ARE THE CHEAP ONES. It's the ebay chineese ones and Blackstar that seem to figure heat sinks are unecessary. Stealth Grow, Penetrator, Spectra, ISIS, Magnum all use heat sinks. The only journals that I have seen that are producing anywhere near the heralded 1g per watt are Stealth Grow, Penetrator, Spectra and ISIS. Magnum is made by the same company as ISIS but is too new to have been proven so feel free to ignore that one.
I have not seen a grow journal that EXCULSIVELY used chinees knock offs or Blackstar that got anywhere near 1g per watt. Lots of people are using Blackstar and swear by them but no one has posted actual yields that compare to the other manufacturers.
I know a lot of people are using Blackstar and everytime someone new asks for an LED recommendation everyone jumps in suggesting Blackstar. I don't think that's fair to the people asking the question.
I am running 357 Magnums but I haven't suggested them ONCE because they aren't proven and until I can put up numbers the recommendation is WORTHLESS.
Blackstar is cheap, it grows pot (a third of a gram per watt is the best I've seen so far) and at that price point it is pretty much the only option for many growers. Can we leave it at that? Can we please stop saying that they are great or better than other panels or that heat sinks aren't needed or other such UNPROVEN claims until someone with Blackstar actually posts decent numbers.
Maybe Blackstar is fly like a G6 but with all the people using them you'd think by now there would be ONE journal to back that up.
Blackstar people feel free to flame me ....but add a link to the Blackstar journal that shows them growing anything over 1/3 of a gram per watt
.......and remember I'm LED too and I love you guys
dunit
Active Member
Hudsonvalley82
Well-Known Member
Even the guy at legrow.eu uses a metal panel to mount his stars.. that acts as a heatsink. 
That is exactly what blackstar has.
That is exactly what blackstar has.
dunit
Active Member
I was waiting for you HudsonEven the guy at legrow.eu uses a metal panel to mount his stars.. that acts as a heatsink.
That is exactly what blackstar has.
If you read the entire set up of the EU guy he is using 1Watt LED's and has changed his power supply to drive them at 50% power to LOWER THE TEMP OF THE METAL PANEL by 15C.
He also doesn't have them crammed in or have a shield over the front to hold in heat.
Imagine the temperature in a Blackstar with 3W LED's side by side being driven at full power with a clear shield holding the heat in and no heat sink.
Who wants to roast marshmallows?
meharmon
Member
dunit -- Any thoughts on the 600W UFO shown on the growperfect/ISIS/357(since they are the same folks) company's website? I was unable to find any spectrum or led wattage info, the site just says red/blue/orange/white. I should've just called and chatted them up earlier but I had just spoken to the guy about the 357(from 357 website, he answered the phone "growperfect" so that's how I found the link i posted earlier to the 600w ufo. I didn't want to call back and say "Hey, I found out you guys are also selling what might be a good one for much cheaper, can you tell me if its worth it to give you less money?" Hehe.
Viagro
Well-Known Member
Blackstars do have fans, after all. Haight panels don't even have fans to disperse heat. But someone should take the temprature of these lights and lay this to rest. Heat does shorten the life of LEDs, but this discussion has nothing really to go on. The talk of heatsinks reminds me of the hype about more and more spectral bands as a selling feature...sounds good, but amounts to bs.
It really is just a cost/benefit analysis, if there is any difference in longevity (and performance) between Blackstars and 357Magnums.
It really is just a cost/benefit analysis, if there is any difference in longevity (and performance) between Blackstars and 357Magnums.
longranger
Active Member
that setup should fill those ladies in nicely. Overkill if anything. What brand are the lights?
Bad Karma
Well-Known Member
Hello everybody.
I thought I'd add some pics of my recently redesigned LED grow room for discussion.
I was running 720W in a 4x4 tent, but I've scrapped that plan in favor of a simpler set up.
I'm now running 1080W over an open 8x5 area, eliminating the need for the inline fan I was using with the tent.
As you can see, each Jack Herer clone (made'em myself from Sensi Seed stock) has it's own 180W LED light directly above it.
The plants are about 2 ft. tall right now, my plan is to flower them when they get around 2.5 ft. tall (as this strain is supposed to double in height during flowering).
Still got to clean up my electrical cords though.
I thought I'd add some pics of my recently redesigned LED grow room for discussion.
I was running 720W in a 4x4 tent, but I've scrapped that plan in favor of a simpler set up.
I'm now running 1080W over an open 8x5 area, eliminating the need for the inline fan I was using with the tent.
As you can see, each Jack Herer clone (made'em myself from Sensi Seed stock) has it's own 180W LED light directly above it.
The plants are about 2 ft. tall right now, my plan is to flower them when they get around 2.5 ft. tall (as this strain is supposed to double in height during flowering).
Still got to clean up my electrical cords though.
Attachments
longranger
Active Member
Commenting on heatsinks and all the positive press the blackstars are getting here it is all about results and value. So what if they only last half as long as claimed? It is still a hell of a value. Besides in 2 or 3 years the LED lights will be a lot better and probably cheaper. Finally it is hard to believe there is a heat issue with the blackstars since they run so cool and have ample fans.
Bad Karma
Well-Known Member
Their ProSource Jumbo Illuminators.
It's not overkill at all if you plan to grow 4-5 ft. tall plants.
dunit
Active Member
Heat shortens the life, reduces the intensity and shifts the spectrum of LED's. It's not speculation or BS.
Hudson go point a Laser Thermometer at your Blackstar and shut me up
While you're at it can you run a grow under your Blackstar and put some numbers up.....lol
Viagro
Well-Known Member
Who said it was bs? I clearly stated that heat degrades LEDs. What isn't clear is the difference in heat degradation between the two lights discussed.Heat shortens the life, reduces the intensity and shifts the spectrum of LED's. It's not speculation or BS.
Hudson go point a Laser Thermometer at your Blackstar and shut me up
While you're at it can you run a grow under your Blackstar and put some numbers up.....lol
There might be very little difference. Until that is established, this argument is just silly.
Are we speaking the same language?