Government Shutdown, Who Gets The Blame?

medicineman

medicineman

New Member
I'm pretty sure this will go down directly along party lines, so here's my 2 cents worth:
If the republicans were really concerned about the deficit, They're not, they would have never let the tax cuts for the wealthiest 2 percent be extended. They would also be trying to cut the pentagon and defund the 3 wars we have going, (the troops would have to be removed from the battlefield) eliminate all corporate tax loopholes and get rid of government subsidies to agribusiness and oil companies, and other sweet corporate deals they so love. The hypocracy is so intense that it must fly over the electorates head, or else, we have a very stupid electorate,(My opinion) and they vote for the republican party of the past, not these idiots we have now usurping the conservative party, (Teabaggers). There was a time I voted republican, (I really hate to admit it) but now, with the Teabaggers trying to eliminate unions and lay off a few million more workers, (And they said Jobs were priority #1) I guess what they meant was the loss of jobs for working people were priority #1. The whole republican platform is a giant turd sandwich for the working people of America. What gets me is the fact the dumbass American people can't see it. There may be hope, I believe, as the repukes get more and more towards Fascism, the people are starting to wise up. The scariest thing the republicans fear, is an informed electorate, and as they push us further to the right, the people are waking up, to wit, Wisconsin. I think the people will blame the repukes for the shutdown, Obama has compromised time after time and it is never enough for the teabaggers, let them stew in their own juices.
 
Serapis

Serapis

Well-Known Member
Dems have already compromised and have accepted over 50% of proposed cuts.... The problem is now they want more cuts (tea party screaming in their ears) and they attached a rider, de-funding the new health care implementation. That is a no go, non-starter for the Dems... We all have to compromise, not just the democrats..
 
Ernst

Ernst

Well-Known Member
This is just to fund the 2011 cycle.. We are not even close to passing a 2012 budget.

The blame is on Fractional Reserve Banking.
 
mame

mame

Well-Known Member
Last I heard,as far as numbers are concerned the deal currently being worked on is "there in terms of numbers"(As in, they've comprimised on ~40-45 billion in cuts... so about halfway between the two parties, which is fair) but there are a few partisan provisions having to do with Abortion, etc that have been attached to the proposal.
the major obstacle at this point is Republicans' insistence on including provisions related to abortion and environmental protection.

Republicans are, among other things, pushing to strip all funding from Planned Parenthood as well as trying to prevent the Environmental Protection Agency from regulating greenhouse gas emissions.
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source

sigh
and they attached a rider, de-funding the new health care implementation.
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I heard about this as well.
 
BudMcLovin

BudMcLovin

Active Member
It’s a 70D/30R maybe 65/35 split in my eyes. It was the responsibility of the Dems congress last year and the Repubs because they have been in for 4 months and haven’t done it either. Politics as usual on both sides I guess.
 
mame

mame

Well-Known Member
BudMcLovin said:
It’s a 70D/30R maybe 65/35 split in my eyes. It was the responsibility of the Dems congress last year and the Repubs because they have been in for 4 months and haven’t done it either. Politics as usual on both sides I guess.
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We've gone over this... From another thread:

The 111th congress saw an unprecedented number of filibusters. It's not surprising that so many bills failed to pass... many of them with voting margins like 57-40... The Republicans were very successful in running an obstructionist platform, and now apparently they have succeeded in blaming the Democrats.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/daily...gress-20101216
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezr...more_fili.html
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Dan Kone

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
The tea baggers get the blame. I do not believe the republicans or democrats want the government shut down. I think individually republicans are scared shitless that if they don't give in to tea party demands they will face primary challengers in the next election.

I believe the goal of the tea baggers is to shut down the government regardless of what democrats and republicans agree to as a demonstration of their power. They wanted 30 billion in cuts. When democrats and republicans agreed to that then they wanted 60billion in cuts. If congress agreed to 60 billion in cuts then they would ask for 120billion in cuts. It doesn't matter what they agree to, if they agree, the tea baggers will ask for more. Their main goal is not cuts, it's a government shut down. They will be successful.

The republican party has been hijacked by it's far right wing.
 
Carne Seca

Carne Seca

Well-Known Member
The Republicans are caught between a rock and a hard place. We have to look at Wisconsin again. The latest election for the state supreme court and the county executive position that Scott Walker held for 8 years is a fine example. The Republican candidates that Governor Walker backed lost and the recall petitions are coming along nicely. They have to fear the Tea Party and the Democratic backlash due to the union busting campaigns. Either way they're fucked and I don't feel a bit sorry for them.
 
mame

mame

Well-Known Member
Dan Kone said:
The tea baggers get the blame. I do not believe the republicans or democrats want the government shut down. I think individually republicans are scared shitless that if they don't give in to tea party demands they will face primary challengers in the next election.

I believe the goal of the tea baggers is to shut down the government regardless of what democrats and republicans agree to as a demonstration of their power. They wanted 30 billion in cuts. When democrats and republicans agreed to that then they wanted 60billion in cuts. If congress agreed to 60 billion in cuts then they would ask for 120billion in cuts. It doesn't matter what they agree to, if they agree, the tea baggers will ask for more. Their main goal is not cuts, it's a government shut down. They will be successful.

The republican party has been hijacked by it's far right wing.
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You should read : The Conscience of a Liberal. In it, PK outlines movement conservatism and this point brilliantly. And the arguments aren't just anecdotal (like conservative arguments ALWAYS are), they include verifiable and sourced accounts of fact.

Fact is, ever since the mid 60's Republicans have gravitated more and more to the right.
 
BudMcLovin

BudMcLovin

Active Member
mame said:
We've gone over this... From another thread:
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When I don’t get something done at work I don’t make excuses, I just take the responsibility for the problems it caused. My boss doesn’t want them anyway he wants the problem resolved. I guess you think that should not be the case with politicians? Or is it only dem politicians you feel that way about?
 
HarryCarey

HarryCarey

Well-Known Member
I beleive the blame lies on the fiscal policies of our government (not any political party) over the past 100-125 years. Party politics are a waste of resources and should be abolished.... Thomas Jefferson once said party alliances would supercede national alliances.......we are there.......If both dems and repubs would get there heads out of the lobbyists and party leaders asses we might make some progress.......unfortunately the entire american public only see two options D and R.....Whatever happened to independent thinking.....people should read the biography of John Adams, a TRUE independent, and then elect independent officials that think for themselves not just vote for what there party says......when in life have there only been two choices to extremely complex problems?
 
Dan Kone

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
mame said:
You should read : The Conscience of a Liberal. In it, PK outlines movement conservatism and this point brilliantly. And the arguments aren't just anecdotal (like conservative arguments ALWAYS are), they include verifiable and sourced accounts of fact.

Fact is, ever since the mid 60's Republicans have gravitated more and more to the right.
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It started with Goldwater. Then Reagan made it the standard. But the tea baggers are going to a further extreme than both of them combined. It's nuts. They want to take the same policies that have been driving the country into the ground since the 80's and make them worse. They want to prove government doesn't work by breaking it.
 
Dan Kone

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
HarryCarey said:
Party politics are a waste of resources and should be abolished.... Thomas Jefferson once said party alliances would supercede national alliances.......we are there.......If both dems and repubs would get there heads out of the lobbyists and party leaders asses we might make some progress.......unfortunately the entire american public only see two options D and R.....Whatever happened to independent thinking.....people should read the biography of John Adams, a TRUE independent, and then elect independent officials that think for themselves not just vote for what there party says......when in life have there only been two choices to extremely complex problems?
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The problem isn't that we have political parties. The problem is that both these parties get funding for their elections from the same people, the ultra wealthy. Wall St can buy a democratic president just as easy as they can buy a republican president. They proved that with Bush and Obama.

It's not that we have political parties. It's the money involved in politics.
 
Johnnyorganic

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
The last Congress should get the blame. It was THEIR job after all.

Princess Nancy and Whorehouse Harry fucked the neighbor's dog instead of insisting that work required of them be completed.

Secondary blame falls on this Congress IF they do not present a bill to the Community Organizer.

If they do present a bill, the Messiah who VETOES the bill should get secondary blame.
 
HarryCarey

HarryCarey

Well-Known Member
@ Dan

I have to respectfully disagree with that....In the absence of parties, officials wouldnt be "scared" to have there own beliefs and vote across party lines on different issues.....They would be forced to think for themselves (with input from there constituents) as opposed to merely voting for there parties platform, which in turn would expose, much quicker, the person they are and the beliefs, morals, ethics they have. I see where you are coming from though and agree with that......without parties, theoretically, it would not take so damn much money (corporate interest) to run a campaign and become president....perhaps then an average joe that really wants to better america in the eyes of the constitution rather than the eyes of wall street or there party could get in there and we could accomplish something
 
mame

mame

Well-Known Member
wiseguy316 said:
Isn't the president in charge? He is ultimately the one to blame, he is driving the bus and the bus is jacked up.
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you should really take the time to learn how government works.
The last Congress should get the blame. It was THEIR job after all.

Princess Nancy and Whorehouse Harry fucked the neighbor's dog instead of insisting that work required of them be completed.

Secondary blame falls on this Congress IF they do not present a bill to the Community Organizer.

If they do present a bill, the Messiah who VETOES the bill should get secondary blame.​
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