Santa Claus
Member
This is a quirkle clone about 3 weeks old, in pro-mix. What is going on?? Any help is appreciated! Sorry for the washed-out pic..
What is Causing This? Is it Mosaic Virus?
- Thread starter Santa Claus
- Start date
Santa Claus
Member
a few more details: temps are in the low 70's to low 80's, humidity 45%-60%, 1000 watt HPS about 3 feet above 12 girls in 2 gallon pots
The only thing I've fed so far is Worm's Way 0.10-0.01-0.11 at about 250ppm and seaweed plant food with micronutrients 12-12-12 at about 450ppm, approx. a week apart.. Ph'd to 6.5-6.8 every time, runoff ph unknown at the moment..
The only thing I've fed so far is Worm's Way 0.10-0.01-0.11 at about 250ppm and seaweed plant food with micronutrients 12-12-12 at about 450ppm, approx. a week apart.. Ph'd to 6.5-6.8 every time, runoff ph unknown at the moment..
Santa Claus
Member
I ph'd some well water to 6.9 and poured a gallon thru one of these quirkles, runoff was 6.8, 1550 tds, and 775 ppm according to my Hanna.
A couple other strains look great, but these quirkles aren't growing much. I did find a few spider mites about a week ago, and sprayed with Safer 3 in 1 miticide/fungicide, and put out a Hot Shots strip. I haven't seen any mites in about 4 or 5 days, and sprayed again a couple days ago, as recommended on the bottle, just to be safe. Could they be burnt from the Safer spray?
I'm new to indoor growing so I'd be ever grateful for any advice..
A couple other strains look great, but these quirkles aren't growing much. I did find a few spider mites about a week ago, and sprayed with Safer 3 in 1 miticide/fungicide, and put out a Hot Shots strip. I haven't seen any mites in about 4 or 5 days, and sprayed again a couple days ago, as recommended on the bottle, just to be safe. Could they be burnt from the Safer spray?
I'm new to indoor growing so I'd be ever grateful for any advice..
is their nutrient in the promix already? i use roots organic soil. It comes with nutrient already in the soil, i just have to feed with R/O water for the first 10-12 days, Then start to add veg food. I see that its 3 weeks old, But this may have started alot earlier. just a thought.
JustinCglass
Member
By the sounds of it, your ph is a bit to high in your nutrient solution
Adjust your nuits to 6.3 and I'd give them about a week or two before you feed em again
Your soil is def high in nuits. Is there alot of coco in the pro-mix?
Keep in mind, different strains can take more nuits and like it
Others are very picky about the concentration.
It seems like the quarkles ar being picky, you may have to mix a separate batch for them
Adjust your nuits to 6.3 and I'd give them about a week or two before you feed em again
Your soil is def high in nuits. Is there alot of coco in the pro-mix?
Keep in mind, different strains can take more nuits and like it
Others are very picky about the concentration.
It seems like the quarkles ar being picky, you may have to mix a separate batch for them
Santa Claus
Member
From the pro-mix bag:
Canadian sphagnum peat moss (65%-75% by volume)
Sea-based compost (from composted shrimp shells & seaweed)
Limestone
Perlite
Mycorise
Maybe just that little bit of food was too much. When they filled their 4" square pots, I thought they were looking hungry, maybe I misinterpreted it and they were just ready for more space. I actually did mix a separate batch of nutes with the 12-12-12 and gave them that after I repotted to the 2 gallon pots.
They're not dried out yet. Should I try flushing them all with more ph'd plain water? Or wait until they're thirsty? Thanks again for any advice..
Canadian sphagnum peat moss (65%-75% by volume)
Sea-based compost (from composted shrimp shells & seaweed)
Limestone
Perlite
Mycorise
Maybe just that little bit of food was too much. When they filled their 4" square pots, I thought they were looking hungry, maybe I misinterpreted it and they were just ready for more space. I actually did mix a separate batch of nutes with the 12-12-12 and gave them that after I repotted to the 2 gallon pots.
They're not dried out yet. Should I try flushing them all with more ph'd plain water? Or wait until they're thirsty? Thanks again for any advice..
Santa Claus
Member
Thanks for this. For the moment I'll just chalk it up to over-fertilization, just hoping they don't get worse. I do have a couple other girls that have these tiny same holes in a couple leaves, or a leaf or two that are deformed and melted-looking, but none look like they are suffering like the querkels.
Santa Claus
Member
It's been a couple more days and all my plants are now affected varying degress by this crinkling, deformed leaf syndrome. Most look healthy with only a leaf or two deformed.. other than the querkles, whom I'm still figuring I overfed as well. I flushed them with water at pH 6.8, 6 gallons per 2 gallon pot. Runoff pH was steady around 6.7 with ppms falling to around 400-500 by time the 6th gallon was run thru.
At this point, I'm chalking the deformed leaves up to the Safer 3-in-1 spray. I doused my girls pretty heavily in search of the last few spider mite eggs, and while the fan is running and I tried to make sure the solution wasn't pooling up anywhere, I'm sure the poison is no good for young plants. I didn't have the opportunity to spray before dark, so the mite killer was sitting on some leaf surfaces in the light. Live and learn. In my next battle with the mites I will do things differently, and while the spray seems effective, I will definitely make sure to wait until the dark cycle so it has some chance to evaporate before being cooked into my girls' leaves.
At this point, I'm chalking the deformed leaves up to the Safer 3-in-1 spray. I doused my girls pretty heavily in search of the last few spider mite eggs, and while the fan is running and I tried to make sure the solution wasn't pooling up anywhere, I'm sure the poison is no good for young plants. I didn't have the opportunity to spray before dark, so the mite killer was sitting on some leaf surfaces in the light. Live and learn. In my next battle with the mites I will do things differently, and while the spray seems effective, I will definitely make sure to wait until the dark cycle so it has some chance to evaporate before being cooked into my girls' leaves.
tommyo3000
Well-Known Member
Hey hey, pro mix is inert except for maybe a bit of beneficial fungus. That makes your grow technically hydroponic. You shoud use water soluble (hydroponic) nutrients. They have the full range of macro and micro nutrients that you need and are easily avaiable through the peat medium. You pH is way out of whack. Your plant is not able to use the nutes that you keep putting in there. It is good that you flush, but you flush with high pH water.
What is your source water? What is it's pH? What is it's PPM before nutes?
You may also have issues with your water beyond the pH.
Feed those badgirls with nutes that are pH'ed to 5.8. You don't have to flush again, just soak them until 10 percent runoff. That should get you down around 6. You want 5.5 to 6.3 ideally. If you ever go above 6.5, you screw up the nutrients. Above 7 and you have ruined that batch.
They should begin to drink and take up nutrients and resume growth.
tommy
billy4479
Moderator
your ph of your water should be like 6.2 ..And Ganja cant get mosaic it is not it the nightshade familey ....Wikipidia that shit say in the first sentece "Tobacco mosaic virus (TMV) is a positive-sense single stranded RNA virus that infects plants, especially tobacco and other members of the family Solanaceae. " do your home work guys
Santa Claus
Member
I got scared about mosaic from reading this thread: http://forum.grasscity.com/sick-plants-problems/623147-tobacco-mosaic-virus-tmv-pics-info.html That quote from wiki says "especially" tobacco and solanacaea.. not only.. I can't speak one way or the other, but the thread at grasscity is frightening.
My water is well water. I live in the woods and it tastes delicious to humans. pH is around 7.5 and 200 ppm.
I didn't know the pro-mix should be treated as hydro. Several of the girls are growing like crazy now, and their pH has always been right around 6.8.. I thought the compost and lime in the mix would effect the pH and nutrient situation, but everyone is saying to treat it like hydro.
I am a little hesitant to water the querkles again, they haven't completely dried out for close to a week. 1 of the 3 is definitely recovering with lots of new growth. Thanks for all your advice and please instruct me further.. I'm still brand new to indoor growing.
My water is well water. I live in the woods and it tastes delicious to humans. pH is around 7.5 and 200 ppm.
I didn't know the pro-mix should be treated as hydro. Several of the girls are growing like crazy now, and their pH has always been right around 6.8.. I thought the compost and lime in the mix would effect the pH and nutrient situation, but everyone is saying to treat it like hydro.
I am a little hesitant to water the querkles again, they haven't completely dried out for close to a week. 1 of the 3 is definitely recovering with lots of new growth. Thanks for all your advice and please instruct me further.. I'm still brand new to indoor growing.
tommyo3000
Well-Known Member
The well water is high. When you put nutes into 7.5 pH water, you fuck it up.. High pH liquids cause reactions in nutes... nutes should be mixed in water below 6.5pH to avoid issues.
Also, 200PPM is alot for water.. You could have 150PPM of calcium in there.. then you mix nutes... and your calcium is freaking three times what cannabis needs.
I love my well water for myself and my dogs
My plants like the R/O.
any other q's?
you're one the right track
Also, 200PPM is alot for water.. You could have 150PPM of calcium in there.. then you mix nutes... and your calcium is freaking three times what cannabis needs.
I love my well water for myself and my dogs
My plants like the R/O.
any other q's?
you're one the right track
Santa Claus
Member
Aha, this helps a lot, thanks. I didn't understand this concept. From now on I will pH my water down to 6.3 or so, then mix nutes.. and then pH again? Thank you for coming back thru to check on me.
The nutrient topic is brand new to me. I have had an organic vegetable garden and a berry patch on this land the last 3 years, and all I've really done is amend the soil with manure and organic compost.. and give them water every evening unless there's rain. Then top feed with blood or bone meal, or Joy Juice when my veggies ask for it. The berries get guano from the bats in my barn and pine needle mulch to help with acidity.
..and everything grows like crazy, even my house plants are generally very happy except when they go thirsty for too long. I have dozens of orchids, jades, philodendrons, ferns, a rubber tree, and on and on. For this reason, I don't think the water here is too out of whack. However, it makes sense now to pH the water first, before adding nutrients. I've done a lot of reading about indoor growing, but somehow this concept escaped me. Thanks again.
I made a custom batch of super soil, based on Subcool's recipe, just because it's more natural for me to think about things that way. It won't be ready for a couple more weeks, hopefully just in time for flowering. In the future I'll use it for veg cycle too, but the way things flowed, I just didn't have time to wait for it to cook for my first run. So I got started with clones and Pro-Mix because a buddy likes it a lot and the more expensive soils like Fox Farms and Roots are just too pricey for me right now. I put a couple thousand dollars worth of equipment on my credit cards.. go big or go home, I guess.
I would like to get a reverse osmosis filter in the future to remove even more variables. Maybe in a few months
Here is another picture that is indicative of what is occurring on a few of the leaves. Others look normal, but it is affecting every plant of the 12. I also have a Lemon Kush that is kinda yellow, so yesterday I ran some neutral water thru, and the runoff came out way too high, almost 7.4, which startled me. Runoff was also very yellow. I continued with lower pH'd water, but even after 5 or 6 gallons of pH 6 and even 5.5, runoff still just barely got to 6.9. Any advice on either of these issues? I will of course pH my water FIRST from now on, before I add any food. Hopefully doing that and pH'ing to around 6 will cure everything for this veg cycle..
I really appreciate your help, tommyo and everybody.. thanks so much!
tommyo3000
Well-Known Member
quoted:From now on I will pH my water down to 6.3 or so, then mix nutes.. and then pH again? Thank you for coming back thru to check on me.
Well, there is a better way to manage your nutrient. I will paste instructions below. There will be a reference below that.
Order of addition: The addition sequence of each nutrient part
can affect nutrient stability, particularly if the water has high alkalinity. Alkalinity (bicarbonate and carbonate) is that component of
natural waters that causes high pH. Adding the nutrient dose to
high-alkalinity water can decrease the stability of several nutrient
species (including calcium, sulfate, iron, copper, manganese, zinc).
Therefore, instead of pre-adjusting the pH of make-up water (an
often very difficult task), it is preferable to first add that part of
the nutrient that lowers pH the most. This will be the part that
contains the phosphate. In 2-part nutrients this is usually part
‘B’. The part without any phosphate will impart relatively little
effect on pH. This part usually contains the iron, which is highly
unstable at pH levels much above about 6.5. In 3-part nutrients the
phosphate is sometimes dispersed across two bottles. Therefore,
determine which contains the highest concentration of phosphate
and add that first
http://www.flairform.com/downloads/nutrient_my2_Flairform.pdf
"CHOOSING HYDROPONIC NUTRIENTS" by Andrew Taylor chemist, Australia
Well, there is a better way to manage your nutrient. I will paste instructions below. There will be a reference below that.
Order of addition: The addition sequence of each nutrient part
can affect nutrient stability, particularly if the water has high alkalinity. Alkalinity (bicarbonate and carbonate) is that component of
natural waters that causes high pH. Adding the nutrient dose to
high-alkalinity water can decrease the stability of several nutrient
species (including calcium, sulfate, iron, copper, manganese, zinc).
Therefore, instead of pre-adjusting the pH of make-up water (an
often very difficult task), it is preferable to first add that part of
the nutrient that lowers pH the most. This will be the part that
contains the phosphate. In 2-part nutrients this is usually part
‘B’. The part without any phosphate will impart relatively little
effect on pH. This part usually contains the iron, which is highly
unstable at pH levels much above about 6.5. In 3-part nutrients the
phosphate is sometimes dispersed across two bottles. Therefore,
determine which contains the highest concentration of phosphate
and add that first
http://www.flairform.com/downloads/nutrient_my2_Flairform.pdf
"CHOOSING HYDROPONIC NUTRIENTS" by Andrew Taylor chemist, Australia
Santa Claus
Member
That was thoroughly informative.
If I ever fully make the switch to hydro, I will definitely look for high pH buffering capacity, and be conscious about the order in which I add nutes.
Part of the reason I decided to do super soil is the simplicity of the "just add water" technique. It's pretty much how I've grown everything outside, from cannabis (albeit quite a few years ago, and not very seriously, altho the girls did very well) to tomatoes and peppers, to strawberries and grapes. Till up some good dirt with quality ingredients, add water, and let the nature do the rest.
For this veg cycle, until the supersoil is done cooking, I'm kinda stuck with winging it as far as fertilization goes. I don't have much to chose from in the way of boutique nutrients, and am between paychecks at the moment..
There are some things leftover from my gardens last year: Some 5-5-5, bone meal 6-9-0, and the aforementioned worm tea and seaweed powder. Also plenty of insect-eating guano (?-?-?), organic compost, and horse shit that's already been run thru the worms.
In theory, once they're into 7 gallons pots and flowering all I will need to do if they're looking hungry is top dress with more super soil and water it in. Should only be another 2-3 weeks for 6 or 8 of my girls. A couple others were pretty slow from clones, and the poor querkles are all recovering now with new growth, but they've fallen behind a bit as well.
If I ever fully make the switch to hydro, I will definitely look for high pH buffering capacity, and be conscious about the order in which I add nutes.
Part of the reason I decided to do super soil is the simplicity of the "just add water" technique. It's pretty much how I've grown everything outside, from cannabis (albeit quite a few years ago, and not very seriously, altho the girls did very well) to tomatoes and peppers, to strawberries and grapes. Till up some good dirt with quality ingredients, add water, and let the nature do the rest.
For this veg cycle, until the supersoil is done cooking, I'm kinda stuck with winging it as far as fertilization goes. I don't have much to chose from in the way of boutique nutrients, and am between paychecks at the moment..
There are some things leftover from my gardens last year: Some 5-5-5, bone meal 6-9-0, and the aforementioned worm tea and seaweed powder. Also plenty of insect-eating guano (?-?-?), organic compost, and horse shit that's already been run thru the worms. In theory, once they're into 7 gallons pots and flowering all I will need to do if they're looking hungry is top dress with more super soil and water it in. Should only be another 2-3 weeks for 6 or 8 of my girls. A couple others were pretty slow from clones, and the poor querkles are all recovering now with new growth, but they've fallen behind a bit as well.
tommyo3000
Well-Known Member
That sounds like a good soil grow you have going.
I think anyone who ever mixes nutes should know about pH and EC and things like that..
Since you are a curious person, check out T&J enterprises on the web... they sell cheap mycorrhizae powder with beneficial bacteria and other fungi, too...
That would be a good addition to your soil pursuits.
That stuff is fascinating and really important for soil growers.
I think anyone who ever mixes nutes should know about pH and EC and things like that..
Since you are a curious person, check out T&J enterprises on the web... they sell cheap mycorrhizae powder with beneficial bacteria and other fungi, too...
That would be a good addition to your soil pursuits.
That stuff is fascinating and really important for soil growers.