Hydrogen Peroxide Dwc
- Thread starter ckckck
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Psychild
Well-Known Member
2 Tablespoons or 30ml of H202 (3%) per Gallon.
I would check your ph and what not before throwing the roots in.
Here's a thread discussing H202 (I have a direct link to the post for you) and how much you should use. Keep in mind these people are growing in soil, as you might need to make a slight change to the dose.
BendBrewer
Well-Known Member
Be careful with that stuff if you have any slime or algae on your roots or in your system. That stuff will take off like a rocket if you do.
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
H202 should be used as a temporary patch to help curb disease. It should NOT be used as normal maintenance. 3% drug store h202 should never be used because it has additional chemicals. H202 should never be used with organic nutes or nutes with chelating agents.
Further more you should not take advice from someone who is able to suggest using h202, but not able to tell you how much or what kind.
Further more you should not take advice from someone who is able to suggest using h202, but not able to tell you how much or what kind.
fabizpwn
Well-Known Member
Well said. Quick, simple and straight to the point +rep
vh13
Well-Known Member
Huel Perkins
Well-Known Member
I use 1 ml per gallon of 29%. I treat every drop of water that goes into my garden....
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
Ultimately it's a matter of preference. Each gardener has a unique situation and goals. Ebb and flow tables do not expose the roots to the h202 solution constantly, and they also are much less prone to root disease than DWC .The science behind hydroponic growing and the functionality of h202 suggests that it is disharmonious to the growing process and should not be used as normal maintenance. Bottom line is that it causes slight damage to your roots. This damage is easily tolerated if the alternative is diseased roots, but why accept a situation where those are your only choices. I use h202 all the time in my garden for different things, including the occasional root dunk, but in my opinion adding beneficial bacteria to the res is cheaper, easier and the proper way to guard roots against disease.
tenthirty
Well-Known Member
Thanks Heisenberg that is what I was looking for.
I am running a Heath Robinson flooded tube octagon on the third round now.
First round......root rot, maybe slime. It took me until almost the end to find you and richyrich and the whole thing on slime. I think I over did the tea on this one near the end.
Second round EWC tea. I found that the system did not get the slime, but when I pulled the plants, there was root rot in the center of the root masses. The system was also having problems with dropping ph. EC was stable. 2 cups of EWC every other day.
I'm going to make an assumption.
I believe the octagon has just enough DO for the plants (maybe). I add the EWC and the DO drops and the roots rot.
I did over feed in my opinion at 1.4 EC. I think that this was too much for this type of system after reading the UC threads at the farmer. Near the end of flower my EC was about .8 and stable, but ph was dropping.
I just planted the third run and the starting EC was .53 and dropped to 5.0 in 1 week, ph is doing what it is suppose to. Also the system is running 4 mil/gal 50% H2O2 100 ppm. We'll see if this is any better.
I am a nub at this DWC, and I may have bitten off more than I can chew with this type of system. The quality of the harvests have been good, but the quantity sucked and the plants looked like shit.
Just on a side note:
All of my water is from a 6 stage RO system with a UV sterilizer. I veg for a week or so in a ebb and flow table. Being lazy, I left the water in the ebb and flow rez for 3 days after the plants were removed from the table and did not add any H2O2 or bennies. There was brown slime floating in my rez.
This shit multiplies fast and in what was basically sterile water.
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
Root Rot that appears only in the center of the root mass is normally due to poor circulation. Either the pots do not drain well, or the root mass is just too thick, but pockets of anaerobic water can form, and without fresh water flow to expose benneis, nasty stuff takes hold.
tenthirty
Well-Known Member
Yup, so the question is............what is the resolution to this problem with 4" flooded tubes arranged in a octagon.
This is what I copied. https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/149998-heaths-flooded-tube-vertical.html needless to say, I have yet to achieve the results that Heath did.
tenthirty
Well-Known Member
Heisenberg,
So we're at 14 days of flower and as of now there is an amazing difference. Bright shiny roots and plants that went from 8" or less to 16" or more in 2 weeks. I even broke out the jewelers loop and did a spot check of roots. There is almost no sign of root disease.
Out of 10+ root checks, I found maybe 2 or 3 root tips with a little black spot on the end, and one little spot with a tiny little bit of clear slime maybe. No tan, no brown, just shiny white roots.
I am still very paranoid!!.....but as of today this is the best I've seen so far with this system.
EC is dropping .06 every day and ph rises about .2 everyday.
Leaves look very happy almost all the way to the bottom of the plants and any deficiencies on the bottom leaves are not progressing, at least not very fast.
Now here is what I have done.
Clones straight to ebb and flow table, EC .4 to start and (get this) 4 mils per gal 50% h2o2 for 7 days. Slight def showed up at this point. In hindsight I think that 4 mils/gal was a little hot. Next time I will cut this in half.
Into the octagon at 4 mils/gal h2o2, 2 mils/gal Hydrofungiside and .5 EC. Still I think a little hot on the h2o2.
I ordered some h2o2 test strips and tested the solution and continued to adjust the h2o2 down and the nutes up. At this point the ec is at .9 and the h2o2 is floating between 75 and 150 ppm.
This week I will be adding a UV sterilizer to further reduce the pathogen load in solution. Mind you that I am not infected to any degree yet and so far, everything looks a-ok.
IMHO clones should be able to take 150 ppm of h2o2 with no adverse effects. My moms in a waterfarm 8 pack are running at 300+ ppm with no adverse effect.
It take 100 ppm to kill most pathogens outright. (I read that somewhere, don't remember where.)
All of this conjecture has come from RicheyRich, Al.B.Fuct, hours of searching, and Ozgrowa's H2O2 formula which I shall shamelessly quote here.
So we're at 14 days of flower and as of now there is an amazing difference. Bright shiny roots and plants that went from 8" or less to 16" or more in 2 weeks. I even broke out the jewelers loop and did a spot check of roots. There is almost no sign of root disease.
Out of 10+ root checks, I found maybe 2 or 3 root tips with a little black spot on the end, and one little spot with a tiny little bit of clear slime maybe. No tan, no brown, just shiny white roots.
I am still very paranoid!!.....but as of today this is the best I've seen so far with this system.
EC is dropping .06 every day and ph rises about .2 everyday.
Leaves look very happy almost all the way to the bottom of the plants and any deficiencies on the bottom leaves are not progressing, at least not very fast.
Now here is what I have done.
Clones straight to ebb and flow table, EC .4 to start and (get this) 4 mils per gal 50% h2o2 for 7 days. Slight def showed up at this point. In hindsight I think that 4 mils/gal was a little hot. Next time I will cut this in half.
Into the octagon at 4 mils/gal h2o2, 2 mils/gal Hydrofungiside and .5 EC. Still I think a little hot on the h2o2.
I ordered some h2o2 test strips and tested the solution and continued to adjust the h2o2 down and the nutes up. At this point the ec is at .9 and the h2o2 is floating between 75 and 150 ppm.
This week I will be adding a UV sterilizer to further reduce the pathogen load in solution. Mind you that I am not infected to any degree yet and so far, everything looks a-ok.
IMHO clones should be able to take 150 ppm of h2o2 with no adverse effects. My moms in a waterfarm 8 pack are running at 300+ ppm with no adverse effect.
It take 100 ppm to kill most pathogens outright. (I read that somewhere, don't remember where.)
All of this conjecture has come from RicheyRich, Al.B.Fuct, hours of searching, and Ozgrowa's H2O2 formula which I shall shamelessly quote here.
I will report on any failures or successes, seeing that we're at 2 weeks now and there is a long way to go, but so far so good. Also I am not trying to cure an infection, but prevent one from happening.
woodsmaneh!
Well-Known Member
Some people swear by it and others don't, as stated if your thinking of doing it all the time , don't bother. If your worried about your root zone that use Dutch Master Zone. A little goes a long way so you only need a small bottle.
tenthirty
Well-Known Member
Woodsmaneh,
My first run in the system was with zone, per the directions on the bottle. The first run was the best of the 2 completed runs. With zone the root rot came on and I was too new to DWC and it took me a couple of weeks to figure out the 1 2 punch with physan 20 and EWC. So at about week 4 I had nuked the bad guys and started running the Bennies to completion. On the second run it was bennies all the way, but root disease, but no brown slime.
So this had brought me so some assumptions.
I agree with Heisenburg that there is a problem with DO. This system is a 4' octagon with 4 levels made out of 4" pipe. There is no real easy way to get air stones into the system. Also almost all of the really bad rot was in the center of the root mass that literally filled the 4" tubes. There is a waterfall and air stones in the rez, but the water has a long way to go.
Also my fumbling with the system while trying to diagnose the problem didn't help either.
I think that this system is marginal on DO even though I'm pumping 500 GPH through the thing. This became evident when the roots got so big that they filled the tubes (PH down and EC stable) and when I did the post mortum and found the rot the most pronounced at the bottom of the net pots at the center of the root mass, progressing downward, and then getting progressively healthier as we reach the outside and ends of the roots.
By introducing EWC I just added a bunch of little critters to breath in the oxygen instead of the plants. Bummer!!
Now here we are at run 3 week 2 and the babies are look'in real purdy like.
I mean nice dark green (not too dark) not purple or blue. To me the "happy green". The leaves have the proper posture and texture. This goes for at least 98% of the leaves across 86 babies.
Not to say that it couldn't turn to shit in a new york minute.
I'm waiting for the UV sterilizer to arrive so I will feel comfortable lowering the h2o2 dosage, maybe even stop using it.
Mind you I'm pulling all of this from you know where, but short of buying a DO meter and really getting down to the nitty gritty, I feel like I'm at the end of the rope as far as deductive reasoning goes.
Thus, I felt a need to post here, if for nothing else to help someone else running this kind of system and has searched so far as to find this tinny little post. Just to let them know that bennies, may be a bad idea in a Heath Robinson flooded tube type system.
But again, we are at week 2 of 9......Time will tell.
My first run in the system was with zone, per the directions on the bottle. The first run was the best of the 2 completed runs. With zone the root rot came on and I was too new to DWC and it took me a couple of weeks to figure out the 1 2 punch with physan 20 and EWC. So at about week 4 I had nuked the bad guys and started running the Bennies to completion. On the second run it was bennies all the way, but root disease, but no brown slime.
So this had brought me so some assumptions.
I agree with Heisenburg that there is a problem with DO. This system is a 4' octagon with 4 levels made out of 4" pipe. There is no real easy way to get air stones into the system. Also almost all of the really bad rot was in the center of the root mass that literally filled the 4" tubes. There is a waterfall and air stones in the rez, but the water has a long way to go.
Also my fumbling with the system while trying to diagnose the problem didn't help either.
I think that this system is marginal on DO even though I'm pumping 500 GPH through the thing. This became evident when the roots got so big that they filled the tubes (PH down and EC stable) and when I did the post mortum and found the rot the most pronounced at the bottom of the net pots at the center of the root mass, progressing downward, and then getting progressively healthier as we reach the outside and ends of the roots.
By introducing EWC I just added a bunch of little critters to breath in the oxygen instead of the plants. Bummer!!
Now here we are at run 3 week 2 and the babies are look'in real purdy like.
I mean nice dark green (not too dark) not purple or blue. To me the "happy green". The leaves have the proper posture and texture. This goes for at least 98% of the leaves across 86 babies.
Not to say that it couldn't turn to shit in a new york minute.
I'm waiting for the UV sterilizer to arrive so I will feel comfortable lowering the h2o2 dosage, maybe even stop using it.
Mind you I'm pulling all of this from you know where, but short of buying a DO meter and really getting down to the nitty gritty, I feel like I'm at the end of the rope as far as deductive reasoning goes.
Thus, I felt a need to post here, if for nothing else to help someone else running this kind of system and has searched so far as to find this tinny little post. Just to let them know that bennies, may be a bad idea in a Heath Robinson flooded tube type system.
But again, we are at week 2 of 9......Time will tell.
woodsmaneh!
Well-Known Member
What is the temp in your res? DO is very temperature effected so to start you should be running around 60 degree's most of the flower period and than move to 58 if you want to see some color in the last 2 weeks. Just look up DO and temperature and you will see what I mean. The other thing is you need smaller bupples than you can get from a blue stone you need sonething like this with it's own pump, you don't need a big pump to drive it. This will increase your DO and than be transported up to the drop zone. Just a thought but rot in the middle could be from DO starvation?
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http://www.fishfarmsupply.ca/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FFS&Product_Code=ED327
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=-1]FlexAir™ disc diffuser bodies are made of high strength polypropylene with 3/4 ” MNPT connections. Each diffuser has a minimum of 6,600 engineered air release orifices, which is up to 20 percent more than comparable models. The special design of the EPDM membrane, with its engineered thickness taper, results in full utilization of the membrane surface, even at low airflow operations. This results in improved oxygen transfer efficiency, along with maximum operational flexibility. The disc diffuser has an integral “triple” check valve to prevent fluid back flow. Normal airflow range is 0 to 5 cfm. Resistance is about 10” H2O when clean. FlexAir™ disc diffusers in stock have fine bubble EPDM membranes installed and weighs 2 lbs. Made in USA.
tenthirty
Well-Known Member
Woodsmaneh,
Rez temp is a steady 67, I think that I can get down to maybe 63 64 f with my current setup.
You're saying I should lower it even further?
Nice air stone!! It is now next on the list, I'll probably order that bad boy tomorrow.
I wish I could rent or borrow a DO meter. They are not cheap!
Rez temp is a steady 67, I think that I can get down to maybe 63 64 f with my current setup.
You're saying I should lower it even further?
Nice air stone!! It is now next on the list, I'll probably order that bad boy tomorrow.
I wish I could rent or borrow a DO meter. They are not cheap!