True HP Aero For 2011

[aerojunkie]

1. No need to spend time mixing nutes. RO water is added via float valve in res, conductivity and ph electrodes monitor res. controller adds nutrients and adjusts PH via peristaltic pumps. Even with DTW My chambers will go through 20-40 gal/week/room

2. I have multiple sockets strategically placed within the hood and I change ballasts/bulbs to adjust to any parameter I choose. The hoods allow me mainly to evenly distribute light while avoiding "hot spots".

3. Gast (not the most quite but Im not concerned with stealth.)

4. Changing the tubing size requires changing the head. I use all new tubing, it is just currently too large and my pumps are fixed RPM pumps.

Your going to be enjoying many obstacles, humidity, heat, pests, lighting, Possibly mold. It should be a blast though. Best of luck

P.S. seal your res from everything especially light and you shouldnt need to worry about dust, dirt, or debris.

 

[Trichy Bastard]

Thanks aj- I agree I'll be having some issues due to the less controlled environment outside. You seem to have been doing this for a long time now, and I am glad you've taken the time to share some of your knowledge and system here. I am hoping to be saved some expenses and wrong turns along the way by taking the advice of others who already have experience on the subject. You're probably right that eventually I will seek to refine alot of variables- but ya gotta start somewhere.

While I'm waiting for my parts to arrive, I am really trying to build my knowledge and understanding of nutrients. It seems most hpa guys eventually go on to mix their own homebrews, although I'd probably like to keep it simpler in the beginning by mixing bottles of commerical stuff until I decide which ratios work best in my setup. Would you be willing to share any knowledge or advice on that subject- perhaps the products you've found to be beneficial, or the ratios you mix if you go that route?

 

[aerojunkie]

There are far more qualified individuals than myself that can better educate on both commercially available and home mixed nutrients. When your ready to start the self-mixed expedition, let me know and Ill see what I can do to help you save some coin. For the time being I would recommend playing with commercial nutes and adjusting them to your specific environment.

BTW, I had a chance to start reading your thread and saw that you were running individual solenoids for each nozzle... The expansion in your 1/4 polyethylene tubing will be minor if not insignificant. you dont need to worry about a delay in spray as your lines will always be 97%+ full whether or not your solenoid is above or below your nozzles. Imagine placing your finger over the top of a straw and lifting it out of your coke. Same concept. Try using a single solenoid for each chamber and just center it as best you can between your nozzles. My current solenoids are supplying a 3/8 line to 2 nozzles spaced 10'+ apart. I have instantaneous flow to both nozzles at the trip of each cycle. You are running higher pressures, so you may have a slight drip from each nozzle but nothing to be overly concerned about. By the time your done you will have plenty of components that will afford you the risk of failure, try a single solenoid/chamber first.

 

[Trichy Bastard]

Ok thanks... One of the reasons I chose multiple solenoids is that if one were to fail, others would still provide some moisture to curb off total crop failure. That could easily be remedied by using 2 solenoids per chamber though. I plan to play around with various setups, but do have the solenoids to do one at each nozzle if it proves to provide that much more control over the mist- perhaps I am a perfectionist- or control freak... It seems most people getting into this err towards the undercontrol side, and I wanted to make sure not to make the same mistakes.
Fair on the nutes- I've been told both Canna and GH can be made to work with decent results- I'll have to do some experimenting myself. The one thing it would seem is that most nutes are tailored for recirculating applications, and include buffers to stabilize ph in these systems- but are not needed for dtw, so it's sort of frustrating and I'm trying to wrap my head around it all. I don't know if these buffers will just be wasted, or if they will cause burns and deficiencies/lockouts when used in hpa/dtw.

 

[aerojunkie]

most non-organic commercial nutes can provide acceptable results, its true that buffers are added, but rarely do these buffers create deficiencies or lockout of the other essential micro/macro nutes especially when you only max out at an EC of 325+- in your aero system.

I finished your thread and there is a lot of good advice and info, there is one individual PetFlora, who is utilizing acetal misting nozzles. I was using the anti-drip version in my system prior to air atomized with good results. I still use them in propagation trays. The anti-drip nozzle only cycles on @ pressures above 20 psi, however you need to be careful in this instance with your solenoid placement, as your pre-charged post cycled lines will emit residual mist. You might be better off using a PVC manifold. They are also less expensive than the 5.00 nozzles you already bought.

http://cgi.ebay.com/10-Red-Anti-DRIP-Acetal-Misting-Nozzles-Screens-/120731533947

the seller is about the cheapest I have found other than ordering 500 from the manufacturer directly. She also sells 1/8 npt to 1/2 slip pvc tees for a home built manifold. The tees are about .20 cheaper else where online but its convenient enough just to order from her.

 

[Trichy Bastard]

Well, let me know if I am on track with most of my thinking- appreciate that you read the whole thread. There is still alot more to be done, and next week or so as I start to put everything together- I'll hope to soon take a bunch of pics and focus on getting things up and running. The reason I went with these biocontrols nozzles is because they are also acetal, and they were liked by tree farmer who has apparently tried alot of different nozzles, and he seemed to get better results with these ones than most. Mike Young felt that they were spitting out more than some "low pressure dig nozzles" from Home Depot-so I'll have to test for myself. Those red ones would probably be my next choice though and the check valve is a nice feature.

In the experiences of those I've read- a pvc manifold is not goot for hpa- as it leaves too much volume and stretch in the pipe to pressurize/depressurize and causes long dribbly cycles. The Cavadge fellow I mentioned (in his own thread) ended up having to switch from pvc manifolds to JG line and found a vast improvement afterwards. Therefore I believe that pvc manifolds would only worsen the issue you speak of.

There is so many largely differing opinions in the hpa world- I had to chose a group to follow that made the most sense. By far, for me- it was the people in tree farmers plug n play aero pods. The system ideals described in that thread are what I am using as a basis for a starting point here... It's a huge thread but there is alot of good info in there if you haven't seen it yet.

 

[hammer21]

Great info AJ thanks for sharing i also will be diving into this head first. Got to ask you say you use 20-40 gallons of mix a week how many nozzles are you using?

 

[Atomizer]

Hi AJ
I run 1/4" lines throughout and dedicated solenoids at each nozzle. I`m curious how you prevent mist overrun when the solenoid closes? the residual pressure in the 10ft 3/8" line must dissipate through the nozzle?

My current solenoids are supplying a 3/8 line to 2 nozzles spaced 10'+ apart. I have instantaneous flow to both nozzles at the trip of each cycle .

 

[aerojunkie]

TB I am familiar wit TF's plug and play journal, and i have no qualms with the info. Im not sure if cavadge was using nozzles with internal check valves. I have instantaneous cycles both on and off with my pvc manifolds in my propagation trays. I would not argue that it is the check valve along with possibly a smaller manifold that allows this.

h21 6 nozzles 2/chamber. 4'x3'x8' chambers

Atomizer. my nozzles are not HP plastic hydraulic nozzles. I am running SS air atomizing nozzles that work at much lower pressures. I.E. 30-60 psi max for both fluid and liquid. They can be had for around 180.00 each for nickle plated brass and from 300.00 to 700.00 each for something similar to what Im running. When air and fluid is cutoff I end up with 1-2 drips and no residual spray as the orifice is much larger than standard hydraulic nozzles.

each hydraulic nozzle will differ slightly but most, like you say, will overrun... However, obviously the higher the pressures an individual is utilizing the longer and more pronounced the mist will be. when I run the acetal nozzles I do not focus on pressures over 7 bar, the check valve eliminates any mist under 20 psi and any pressure between 20 and 80-100 psi is rapidly dispersed. I did have more runoff with larger manifolds, but I was always satisfied with the results. When building this system it is my opinion that perfection will not occur in every sq ft of chamber space. The goal in my designs is to find the highest threshold of the perfect root environment... That is why i build larger chambers. The root structure of the plants closest to my nozzles are not as aesthetically pleasing as the other 95% in the same chamber but they are by no means unhealthy... The just lack a few more hair roots on a single side due to rapid condensation. Basically the plants closest to my nozzles are "taking one for the team".

I forgot to mention... These nozzles are not quiet but neither is my compressor.

 

[hammer21]

Are these the type of nozzle`s you are using AJ ? http://www.i-spraynozzle.com/en/Pressure-Air-Atomizing-Nozzle-156.html

 

[bLunteDDDD]

why doesnt anyone post were they got there pressure relief valves and pressure regulator all the ones i find are brass or copper and u all say there so easyyyy to find, then WTF??? why cant i find any?

 

[Trichy Bastard]

why doesnt anyone post were they got there pressure relief valves and pressure regulator all the ones i find are brass or copper and u all say there so easyyyy to find, then WTF??? why cant i find any?

I got my prv on ebay search for: "stainless pressure release valve"- was good up to 150psi -1/2"
I just wrote in your thread about the acetal regulator "watts p60" - and its buried somewhere in my thread. lol

 

[bLunteDDDD]

yeah im still looking for one of those prv's, but somewhere else, since i got scammed on ebay... lol

but yes i am familiar with that one but im looking for a regulator, but i found one that looks just like that and goes to 125
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/WATTS-Pressure-Regulator-1DMK5?Pid=search

now i was looking at other regulators and it had input pressures of like 120psi-200psi and output of like 50-150psi.. does that mean if i wanted 90psi to my misters (just a random number, havent done any calcs yet ;P) i would set output to 90 and say i kept the input at 200 and got an accumulator and pump that could address the 200psi i could go a realllllly long time without the pump going on? I remember these being expensive and I have no clue where i found them cuz i was doing madddddddd research before lol.

 

[Trichy Bastard]

yeah im still looking for one of those prv's, but somewhere else, since i got scammed on ebay... lol

but yes i am familiar with that one but im looking for a regulator, but i found one that looks just like that and goes to 125
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/WATTS-Pressure-Regulator-1DMK5?Pid=search

now i was looking at other regulators and it had input pressures of like 120psi-200psi and output of like 50-150psi.. does that mean if i wanted 90psi to my misters (just a random number, havent done any calcs yet ;P) i would set output to 90 and say i kept the input at 200 and got an accumulator and pump that could address the 200psi i could go a realllllly long time without the pump going on? I remember these being expensive and I have no clue where i found them cuz i was doing madddddddd research before lol.

Yeah- I think the one listed on grainger is the same one I got. You're pretty much correct about the pressure regulator- I also listed a more detailed reason in your thread why it was beneficial. Basically it will also keep a standard output pressure to the nozzles (which affects their performance) despite what level the accumulator is at (it will be highest pressure just after the pump clicks off, and lowest just before it cuts in). I'm subscribed to your thread now, so when I am online I'll read it, and no need to double post the same questions in mine too- not a complaint by the way...

 

[Trichy Bastard]

Okay- on a side note I pretty much forgot about my tomato cutting experiment. I have a dominaero ultrasonic fog propagation chamber I was about to chalk up to a bad purchase. But- I decided to try to clone a cherry tomato in it for an experiment after all my other seedlings died of root rot weeks ago. (They got over 95f before I added a chiller- and I fought with it for weeks until they finally succombed). The nute solution hasn't been checked in a month, although I put the cutting in about a week and a half ago. I haven't taken an readings yet but could only guess the ec and ph are way outta whack by now. Nonetheless the roots are barely starting to fishbone and the plant looks to have a bit of an overall deficiency (not surprised). The roots aren't exactly superb looking, but the conditions were far from ideal and if I'd just given a little more TLC I think I could improve the results quite a bit. Perhaps this still has a use for a cloning chamber- especially since the roots are closer to hp roots already- and the transition into my pod should be quicker I'd think... What do you guys think? (Sorry it's middle of the night here so these are flash pics...)

 

[kmbud]

Hey TB, I have been reading your thread and I'm all caught up. I will probably be posting here if you don't care. Seems all the up to date information is coming from this thread now. Like you I have been collecting components. It will still probably be a little longer before I start a grow. Good luck with yours.

 

[Trichy Bastard]

Hey TB, I have been reading your thread and I'm all caught up. I will probably be posting here if you don't care. Seems all the up to date information is coming from this thread now. Like you I have been collecting components. It will still probably be a little longer before I start a grow. Good luck with yours.

Lol kmbud- there's been a bunch of non-specific banter while you've been away- and we have some new companions. Mike told me the timer would take a month- and he wasn't kidding. Of course you can post here, probably the only reason this thread is busier is because I've been running my mouth out of boredom waiting for parts to come... The thread has gone a few different directions, but once we start putting stuff together I think the focus will return. Good to hear from you...

 

[needthc]

is the pump for a hps aero system significantly louder then a smaller lp pump?

 

[Trichy Bastard]

is the pump for a hps aero system significantly louder then a smaller lp pump?

I'd assume, by their design, they can be louder than a mag drive pump, but have heard Aquatec, and specifically the 6800 model is very quiet. You can always build a sound proof housing for them as they are inline pumps, and not just dropped into the res... Also- depending on how you size your accumulator tank- the pump may only need to come on for a few minutes every few days or even longer... I haven't had a chance to listen to mine long enough to tell quite how much louder it is yet...

 

[kmbud]

is the pump for a hps aero system significantly louder then a smaller lp pump?

I haven't purchased my pump yet either. But I have decided to try the Aquatec 8800 because of it's reputation of quietness also. There is a 10 bucks price differance between it and the 6800 TB was talking about, but it has a higher pressure rating from what I have been able to find out from different sources (160psi max). I don't know what your requirements are but one or the other should do you good. Look at Reptile Basics (link below) I don't think you will beat their prices, some places sell the 24v power converter seprate. The pump already comes pre plummed with 3/8 JG push lock fittings I believe. I don't have it in my hand so I can't say personally, but I am going on reputation. For what ever it's worth. Good Luck!

http://www.reptilebasics.com/aquatech-misting-pumps