True HP Aero For 2011

vapedup

Well-Known Member
Thanks for such a detailed response. They are separate systems by the way. I just started the pure fog system, I think I will run it on only fog, c what happens. Do u have the timer? For aero needs 1minute on 4 off, but the Jack running on the lpa, is AWESOMW, to keep it from becoming a DWC, I built a net in the resivor, have u started ur system yet? Or is it in the development part? Would love to hear and see the diffrence in a hpa system vs mine, if it getts any better, I have to jump on the hpa train! :)
 

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
Thanks for such a detailed response. They are separate systems by the way. I just started the pure fog system, I think I will run it on only fog, c what happens. Do u have the timer? For aero needs 1minute on 4 off, but the Jack running on the lpa, is AWESOMW, to keep it from becoming a DWC, I built a net in the resivor, have u started ur system yet? Or is it in the development part? Would love to hear and see the diffrence in a hpa system vs mine, if it getts any better, I have to jump on the hpa train! :)
Well, most of my parts arrived and I plan to start the build this week matter of fact. There is no set timing for hpa, but rather a preferred amount of moisture at the root zone depending on all the factors of your components/chamber size and how much they deliver in a set amount of time. I'm assuming a start point for my system might be 1/2 a second on and 3 minutes off for instance. This is the timer I went with that is capable if .10 second increments: http://www.iseincstore.com/422_timer.aspx . Keep me posted on your pure fog setup, and I guess you'll keep an eye on how mine goes... ;)

Edit- Another PITA with foggers is they tend to get hot- I had to buy a chiller as my 10 gallon res was reaching nearly 100 indoors and my ambient temps were 80... And use the ceramic heads- they last alot longer in the nutes...
 

vapedup

Well-Known Member
Sounds good! Yea, I'm gonna ride the pure fog out, if push comes to shove, throw them in the lpa, one more ?, I stopped using co2 because the plant was turning into a monster! =) I'm 3weeks into flower, u think I can go ahead and add the co2 back in?
 
i thought you may be interested in this trichy i am setting up a true hpa system with expansion tank,regulators,pressure switch etc etc

but i am also design a system for a mate still in the hpa but doing away with the expansion tank as he does not want one,,so i was thinking about incorparating some ball check valve to stop water from draining back into the res tank when the pump is off and to keep the line pressurized for when the pump kicks in to hopefully give it an instant shot of spray.. ive played around with some check valves spring pressure and have come up with some designs to make them open at 80psi...im going to put a hp water pump rated at 125psi.. i really dont know if this will work but hey its worth a shot, a problem i already see is going to be the constant stopping and starting of the pump but its the orders i have from him lol... well if it works it will be another way of doing hpa so fingers crossed :idea: any constructive criticism would be good
 

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
Sounds good! Yea, I'm gonna ride the pure fog out, if push comes to shove, throw them in the lpa, one more ?, I stopped using co2 because the plant was turning into a monster! =) I'm 3weeks into flower, u think I can go ahead and add the co2 back in?
Not sure as I have no experience with co2- might be a better question for a different thread. If I remember correctly, you don't generally use co2 the last couple weeks of flowering, but don't quote me on that.
 

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
i thought you may be interested in this trichy i am setting up a true hpa system with expansion tank,regulators,pressure switch etc etc

but i am also design a system for a mate still in the hpa but doing away with the expansion tank as he does not want one,,so i was thinking about incorparating some ball check valve to stop water from draining back into the res tank when the pump is off and to keep the line pressurized for when the pump kicks in to hopefully give it an instant shot of spray.. ive played around with some check valves spring pressure and have come up with some designs to make them open at 80psi...im going to put a hp water pump rated at 125psi.. i really dont know if this will work but hey its worth a shot, a problem i already see is going to be the constant stopping and starting of the pump but its the orders i have from him lol... well if it works it will be another way of doing hpa so fingers crossed :idea: any constructive criticism would be good
Good luck greenandmean, it has been tried by many to circumanvigate the tank, but I haven't heard of anyone having stellar results so far. Not to mention that you give up the safeguards that the tank offers in terms of buffer when the electricity goes out, or pump fails. I've decided through other people's experiences and knowledge that a hp setup sans accumulator is just a bunch of extra work to deliver the same results as nft (traditional hydro). In his case it would be a heck of alot cheaper to just do flood and drain or something- and should be similar results (which can still be quite good). It's just not possible to deliver the extremely short bursts without the tank, and even if you could through some fancy valves and coordinated timings, the pump itself could die in a couple months or less, and in hindsight it would have probably been cheaper/easier to just use the accumulator in the first place. Not trying to be negative, but just trying to save your friend from a bunch of unnecessary expense and work. I originally thought long and hard about this myself. If you do end up creating it though, it would be interesting to compare the results with your hpa setup (assuming it's dialed in).
 

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
Ok, been pretty busy with other stuff, but I have most of the components I need now. Still waiting on the bulk of the John Guest fittings and haven't yet purchased all the parts I plan to obtain from the local hardware store. I had some time to shoot a few pics of what I have so far and just wanted to post em as promised- so here goes... :hump:


This is an accurate digital tire pressure gauge that measures up to 150psi and will help me initially set the accumulator tank's air bladder pressure. Also, shown is the smart trickle charger I'll use to keep the 12v battery charged that will power the whole system until I switch to a 20w solar panel eventually. (Yes- HPA is a very energy efficient way to grow, people worried about their carbon footprint should be thrilled-lol)
IMG_0730.jpg

Here is the 1 micron inline filter that specifically does not have the small red bleeder valve typical on these types of filters (in case I put it on the inlet side of the pump the valve might have drawn in air under the vacuum conditions). I also got a 1 micron filter bag shown on the right like Atomizer recommended, as it was only a few dollars and I might go that route too depending on how the inline filter seems to work.
IMG_0731.jpg


Some of the John Guest fittings, valves and adaptors and 1/4" tubing that have arrived so far- and a nice sized glycerine filled pressure gauge that reads up to 150 psi. I chose the black JG tubing after reading it's the only one that has uv stabilizers for direct sunlight applications, although I think I will wrap it with insulation anyway.
IMG_0732.jpg

The $13 stainless steel Pressure relief valve from ebay. Hope it performs well enough. The maximal setting is 150 psi and I will probably set it fairly close to it's limits (I'm thinking 150 actually as I will probably set my pump cut out pressure to 130-140psi). This thing should only ever be needed in a pressure switch failure situation to prevent a catastrophic explosion of the accumulator tank.
IMG_0737.jpg

This is the $26 Dwyer pressure switch- I hope it's good considering the cheaper price- but I wanted to use a different one than Cavadge and tree farmer because the $80 Square-D one they both used reportedly had issues triggering when the system pressure fluctuated as the solenoids fired.
IMG_0735.jpg

These are the 8 stainless steel STC solenoids I changed my mind and got instead of the original ones I was considering- they are very heavy and seem bulletproof. The electronic portion can easily be detached and replaced for $10 if it ever wears out (the valves themselves seem like they will last a lifetime).
IMG_0734.jpg

This is the ATC-422 flip flop timer. Looks pretty cool eh? I was surprised the dials spin smoothly and don't click in between settings, it makes me think I can make very slight adjustments to the resolution of 1/10 of a second. On the side of the unit (not shown) are some screws that adjust the intervals as indicated in the tiny windows next to the dials. It came from the factory set on 10 seconds, but I will be setting the top (ON timing) dial to 1 second which the dial will then adjust anywhere from 1/10th- up to 100% of that single second. The bottom dial will adjust the pause duration timing and I will set it to 10 minutes and then that dial will adjust the pause between ON cycles in fractions of 10 minutes. The piece on the right is the octal base for wiring the timer in.
IMG_0736.jpg

Here's the 150psi - 10.3 gallon expansion tank I'll be using as my accumulator. The water inlet/outlet is located on the bottom and can be plumbed in through the hole in the metal ring base. On top you can see the offset air valve for adjusting the bladder pressure, and I am still not sure what the center threaded hole is for, but I can only guess it's to mount a pressure gauge. The instructions had no mention of it, and when I called customer service the lady was unknowledgeable and sounded annoyed that I asked something she didn't know the answer to. I honestly do not think she knew anything about their products at all as she wasn't sure what an "expansion tank" even was- :?
IMG_0729.jpg

Here are 2 of the Biocontrols acetyl inpingement style mist nozzles (0.016 orifice rated <0.04 oz. per second @ 80-100psi). Note the little plastic pin on top that seems like it could bend or break off quite easily- I'll have to be careful when handling it. It's that pin that is the "inpingement" part- it means the water is blasted into the pin tip and that helps break apart the stream into a finer mist. tree farmer wrote these are some of the better nozzles he used and he's tried many different types apparently. He also mentioned that about 1 out of 10 of them seem to be defective so I purchased a couple extras. If you look closely, there is a piece in the threaded side of the nozzles that looks like it might serve to swirl the water as it enters the nozzle body, I was intrigued by it and wondered how it might help the mist production.
IMG_0733.jpg

Well, I still need to purchase the root chamber and get to working on that as well as putting together some sort of housing and mounting configuration for all these plumbing and control system parts. I'll be honest that I'm a bit overwhelmed with all the variables I'm trying to take into account in the design phase. I really want to make sure stuff is sheltered from the elements and also insulated from the heat. I guess once I start on it and take it in bite size chunks it really won't be such a big deal. If I could just fully commit to a design, the actual work would probably only be a day or two...
 

vapedup

Well-Known Member
I'm a new to the. Fourm, so this my sound like a dumb ?, can we post pics of our grow. On here? And if so, what is the easiest way to do it? I have the jack in the lpa system and it 3 weeks today, want to share with u guys to see how it compares to hpa
 

mr.bond

Well-Known Member
Trichy Bastard,

SICKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!! Read through most of this thread and it is awesome!

Can't wait to see more pics as you put this beast together, especially as you start to get some roots popping. *drool* Also, have you determined what kinds of nutrients you will be using?

Cheers!
Mr. Bond
 

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
I'm a new to the. Fourm, so this my sound like a dumb ?, can we post pics of our grow. On here? And if so, what is the easiest way to do it? I have the jack in the lpa system and it 3 weeks today, want to share with u guys to see how it compares to hpa
Vape- when you respond to the thread check out the little icons at the top of the reply box- one of them looks like a little picture and when you click on it the window will walk you through how to do it. I'm curious to see your pics- I haven't grown any hp roots yet, but I can link you to a couple pics from other people floating around out there. If you want, you can also start a thread of your own or a journal, and post the link to it in here. I don't really mind either way. My original plan was to stay on topic for readers to follow the hpa build, but this thread has already become as eclectic as I am- lol... That's just my adhd- I'm pretty used to it by now... Actually- go ahead and post it here, we can discuss how the roots might be similar or different to hpa roots which will keep us on topic ;) .

Trichy Bastard,

SICKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!! Read through most of this thread and it is awesome!

Can't wait to see more pics as you put this beast together, especially as you start to get some roots popping. *drool* Also, have you determined what kinds of nutrients you will be using?

Cheers!
Mr. Bond
Thanks mr. Bond, another warm welcome to you too! I'm really happy the topic is so well recieved by so many interesting people. I'll try to get stuff together at a reasonable pace to keep everyone's attention span- not to mention my own exuberance-heh. I have been steered to start off with Canna (the substra line is designed specifically for drain to waste) by Atomizer who knows his stuff and is a veteran hpa guy. He also told me a mix of GH products could come close to the canna and work well. As a side experiment I am going to try out a mix of Dynagrow products, just to satisfy my curiosity too, but it's not recommended as of yet. Main thing is to not do organics, as they would clog the mist nozzles. There is no need for any bennies and a sterile environement is preferred from what I read.
 

vapedup

Well-Known Member
Thanks TB, I just want to compare, ur thread is what is making me want to go hpa, and yes, that would b dope if u could lead me to some other good aero threads, ill take pics of roots tonight, my avatar is what the plant looks like, any comment? Only under 400w hps
 

Mike Young

Well-Known Member
Hey trichy, if you're in a pinch for fittings you might try HD for the watts push fit. I too didn't order all the JG's I needed, and had to buy a couple of them. They are not quite the quality of the JG, but may serve useful in a pinch. Also, I should mention that I broke the very first bio nozzle I threaded onto the JG fitting. It may have been that I was trying to wrap it with teflon tape, not necessary btw. Looking forward to your build. Looks like you got most of your parts. It's hell waiting for parts to ship. When you get everything, you'll be surprised at how fast it comes along. I was like a tazmanian devil putting shit together. You'll make a mess!
 

Kdn

Member
I finally got my hpa table up, its just a box framed out of 2x4s and drapped with 6mil poly(93"Lx21"Wx30"H) and 2" foam insulation top. I got the usual SS stc solenoids and the cheap 115psi plastic ones which I am testing now. My controller seems to run the solenoids just fine and have found its quiter, more energy effecient and generally easier to maintain then my lpa setup. I just need to finish getting the misting dialed in, which it looks like mike is close to getting. with such a long table I though multiple nozzles at a time offset would work best but I guess this is where Atomizers experience comes into play, for right now though I have just part of the table in use with just 2 nozzles. I do like how the mist just floats through the chamber, you can most definately tell the difference coming from lpa.
 

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
Thanks TB, I just want to compare, ur thread is what is making me want to go hpa, and yes, that would b dope if u could lead me to some other good aero threads, ill take pics of roots tonight, my avatar is what the plant looks like, any comment? Only under 400w hps
The plant looks happy from what I can see, but the pic is too small to tell much else. There are alot of new posters stopping by, and I'm not sure how much of the thread you guys have or have not read. To set the record straight, I am not a very experienced grower (only a few grows, mostly hydro and many years ago), but I am trying to follow the advice of some other people I have alot of respect for. When someone asks me a question, the best I can do is draw from the many hours of research and reading I've done, but most of any answers I'd give are just a regurgitation of information that I've read or been given from other people, and not my own experiences. The biggest reason I started this thread was to document what I was trying out, and hopefully have some of the more experienced people answer my own questions. I am happy to see all of the people coming out of the woodwork who are interested in this type of system, and I am happy to share the information I, myself am operating with. But I'm a pretty modest guy, and I just wanted everyone to know where I am coming from, and again give credit to the real pioneers of this topic.
Here are a few threads which I've previously mentioned as being my inspiration:
https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/254876-my-true-hp-aero-plug.html
http://www.gardenscure.com/420/aeroponics/133136-project-forget-fogger-im-going-hp.html
http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f29/trees-aero-15936/
Also on uk420 sign up and search for the journals of a gentleman by the name of G-love who did a great documentation of his Atomix air atomized aero grows...

Frankly, this arena would be alot harder without the information one could gain by taking the time to read all of these threads. Is it a big reading assignment? Yes- but if your really interested in the subject it's all fun reading anyway. If you don't have the time to go over this stuff now, I'd think you'll just cost yourself more problems and time in the future and may never get this stuff down. So many people seem to try this on a whim and give up eventually unsuccessful, and I wanted to give myself the best odds of success by gaining the experiences of others who've already done the work. Offering the resources for my own information is probably the best advice I could ever give... ;)
 

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
Hey trichy, if you're in a pinch for fittings you might try HD for the watts push fit. I too didn't order all the JG's I needed, and had to buy a couple of them. They are not quite the quality of the JG, but may serve useful in a pinch. Also, I should mention that I broke the very first bio nozzle I threaded onto the JG fitting. It may have been that I was trying to wrap it with teflon tape, not necessary btw. Looking forward to your build. Looks like you got most of your parts. It's hell waiting for parts to ship. When you get everything, you'll be surprised at how fast it comes along. I was like a tazmanian devil putting shit together. You'll make a mess!
Hey Mike, yeah, I remember reading about your broken nozzle- I took a "note to self" hehe. Thanks for the tips bro. Everyone claims to have to have made multiple JG fitting orders and I thought to pay extra special attention to get it on the first round, but still failed... Oh well- seems a common problem... I'm really excited to get this thing up and running too!
 

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
I finally got my hpa table up, its just a box framed out of 2x4s and drapped with 6mil poly(93"Lx21"Wx30"H) and 2" foam insulation top. I got the usual SS stc solenoids and the cheap 115psi plastic ones which I am testing now. My controller seems to run the solenoids just fine and have found its quiter, more energy effecient and generally easier to maintain then my lpa setup. I just need to finish getting the misting dialed in, which it looks like mike is close to getting. with such a long table I though multiple nozzles at a time offset would work best but I guess this is where Atomizers experience comes into play, for right now though I have just part of the table in use with just 2 nozzles. I do like how the mist just floats through the chamber, you can most definately tell the difference coming from lpa.
Very cool Kdn, please keep us updated, feel free to post any pics if that is your style... Yeah, as mentioned to me, coverage is the first priority, but then overwatering needs to be watched for if you want to get the advantages of HP... Excited for you too man... :)
 

r0m30

Active Member
Great progress Kdn, I'm making mist tonight as well. Still need to layout the wiring, hang and seal the doors and quit analyzing and just buy the damn light, but progress!
Cab_First_Test.JPG

A question for anyone who cares to give an opinion, What do you think of one of these (the 72 quart one 25" x 17-1/2" x 14" h) as a root chamber instead of the buckets? (TB if I'm thread jacking let me know and I'll edit and remove question)

PS sorry for the lousy pic but every one of my flashes is down for batteries :-(
 
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