LED Without LEDs -My First T5 Grow

[Psytranceorgy]

Hrmmm

Well, I was thinking that I would have plenty of blue light with the 2 454s and the 2 super actinics (with supplemental blue spillover coming from the 2 fiji purples and 2 ???... where ??? could be the aquaflora, or some other, better bulb for the purpose).

But I am still thinking that the preferred ??? bulb is something with decent red spillover during flowering, as well as the blue since these bulbs will remain in the Bad Boy during both vegetative and flowering growth. I am also thinking that the preferred bulb should have a green peak. I see the ??? bulb filling sort of the same role as the fiji purples (decent blue/red/green) for all phases

The Giesemann midday isn't bad either and shares similar peaks... just a little less specific

Giesemann midday:




Giesemann aquaflora:

 

[PetFlora]

I defer to Pr0f, but I am more inclined towards more green than he, BUT, the Fiji may provide more than enough Green. In the end it depends on the rest of your bulbs. On second look at the graph, I agree with Pr0f- too much yellow/orange with the Giesmann.

I still haven't been able to wrap my mind around how disparate bulbs will commingle when < 4" above the canopy, though. hth

 

[pr0fesseur]

I still haven't been able to wrap my mind around how disparate bulbs will commingle when < 4" above the canopy, though. hth

Light travels in ALL directions....
Unless your doing a SOG and the plants are perfectly FLAT... you shouldn't have a problem... the sheer fact you can see all the bulbs 4" from your face means light is reaching your eyes telling you they exist....

 

[pr0fesseur]

Hrmmm

Well, I was thinking that I would have plenty of blue light with the 2 454s and the 2 super actinics (with supplemental blue spillover coming from the 2 fiji purples and 2 ???... where ??? could be the aquaflora, or some other, better bulb for the purpose).

But I am still thinking that the preferred ??? bulb is something with decent red spillover during flowering, as well as the blue since these bulbs will remain in the Bad Boy during both vegetative and flowering growth. I am also thinking that the preferred bulb should have a green peak. I see the ??? bulb filling sort of the same role as the fiji purples (decent blue/red/green) for all phases

The Giesemann midday isn't bad either and shares similar peaks... just a little less specific

Giesemann midday:

View attachment 1776694


Giesemann aquaflora:

View attachment 1776695

The more light peaks the bulb produces the less of that light it produces.......
for example you must ADD the total light distribution together to get the total output... if you disperse that light over the entire spectrum you diminish the intensity of the individual peaks....therefore the light would not be as energetic for that spectrum and produce fewer photons....
More of one color is always going to be better than less of all colors...
While thinking you would have enough blue is rather a misnomer.. each bulb is focused on a specific spectra... you have to add the spectras together to get a more complete PAR footprint...
Adding light between 500 and 630nm is wasting photons.... and $$$
you need green "some" yes thats true.. however the ??? bulb is a "supplemental" bulb like a vitamin if you will while red and green are food.... plants will grow with ONLY blue... and grow better with R/B and produce more resin with actinic light... so blue and red are primaries... you want only 10% of your light for supplementation out of that spectra... i explained under Actinics Explained a few posts back...
View attachment 1776819

 

[MurshDawg]

The more light peaks the bulb produces the less of that light it produces.......
for example you must ADD the total light distribution together to get the total output... if you disperse that light over the entire spectrum you diminish the intensity of the individual peaks....therefore the light would not be as energetic for that spectrum and produce fewer photons....
More of one color is always going to be better than less of all colors...
While thinking you would have enough blue is rather a misnomer.. each bulb is focused on a specific spectra... you have to add the spectras together to get a more complete PAR footprint...
Adding light between 500 and 630nm is wasting photons.... and $$$
you need green "some" yes thats true.. however the ??? bulb is a "supplemental" bulb like a vitamin if you will while red and green are food.... plants will grow with ONLY blue... and grow better with R/B and produce more resin with actinic light... so blue and red are primaries... you want only 10% of your light for supplementation out of that spectra... i explained under Actinics Explained a few posts back...
View attachment 1776819

How did you map all of that plus the sum spectra? I think it would be neat if we could all provide graphs like yours, Pr0fesseur.

 

[pr0fesseur]

How did you map all of that plus the sum spectra? I think it would be neat if we could all provide graphs like yours, Pr0fesseur.

These graphs were posted already in this forum HERE ive even posted them in my journal.. please check it out! they do not belong to me and were provided by BrainAlive
Brainalive if you read this Thanks again for these great graphs to help the cause!

 

[PetFlora]

This is why a journal would be a good idea. The introduction is editable over time. The various graphs could be laid out there with a brief explanation on the whys and wherefores, eliminating scrolling through 53 pages and counting. hth

 

[Psytranceorgy]

Amazing graphs Brainalive! Thank you! And thank you pr0f for the heads up and replies, and for all of your researching efforts, and posts here. I'm sucked in! Can't wait to get my own T5 grow going =D. Looks like that fiji purple is every bit as precious as the red suns for flowering... and the only bulb that really hits the 660 range... I'm certain that I will make at least one of the ??? bulbs another fiji purple. Probably even drop a red sun for a fiji purple so that I would have 3 of each during flower and the ??? bulbs can still be something else...

It would really be awesome for the cause to organize the bulbs/graphs, and if the freaking spectra could be provided better (or even at all with some) from the manufacturers... I know I'm not the only one that is noticing all the differences in scale on these spectrum graphs on both the x-axis and the y-axis, as well as the coloring etc... ***sigh*** Worth sorting through it all though IMO! Brainalive... where are you... lol

 

[PetFlora]

Psy: Yes those X/Y axis are not consistent, especially the vertical (x?) plus many are small and do not have a large enough 'enlarge' size, some none at all.

 

[smokeymarine]

This is a bit off topic, but I've been looking for a cooler running alternative to my 400W HPS for flowering. A normal grow is 16 48" T8 lamps for veg then a 400W HPS for flowering. As everyone knows a big problem with the HPS is heat. Once the HPS lamp is on so is the A/C. I thought LED's might be an option, this thread got me thinking. I haven't had any luck searching the internet for T8 lamps that come in the color spectrums mentioned here. In fact what I keep seeing is T8 sized LED lights for aquariums. Any suggestions for T8 lamps? I would really love to just try new lamps rather than getting a whole new fixture for T5's

 

[UnderCurrentDWC]

I would really love to just try new lamps rather than getting a whole new fixture for T5's

You probably know you can get more lumens and watts into the same amount of space with a T-5 while being more efficient on electrical usage, I'm not sure how long it would take to pay for it self but in the meantime your plants will love you for the upgrade.

 

[Psytranceorgy]

Well, I shot off an email to UV Lighting company about their published spectrum graphs, and will let you know the response. The email is below:

Hello,
I am researching the optimum combination of T5 bulbs for my system. It is wonderful that you have spectrum graphs for each of your T5 bulbs. However, I have found that the information provided is VERY confusing.
FIrst of all, what is the unit of measurement of the x-axis in the graphs anyways? It is reported as a numerical value, with no unit of measurement...
Also, suddenly in the graph for the Red Sun bulb, it is given in percentages???
Furthermore, I have found that the x-axis in each of the graphs is scaled differently in magnitude.
For example, the first five T5 bulbs on the site share the same x-axis measure (numerical), but the magnitude ranges greatly!
The 75.25, 454 and Indigo Sun bulbs x-axis range from zero to 5.00E-05 (0.00005)
The Actinic White and Aquasun bulbs x-axis range from zero to 1.00E+00 (1)

The Super Actinic x-axis ranges from zero all the way up to 2.5E+00 (2.5)
Is this correct? If so, it suggests that none of the light peaks from the 75.25, 454, and Indigo Sun bulbs have even the slightest fraction of the light intensity (or whatever that missing unit of measurement is???) that the other bulbs have in their light peaks.
And the Red Sun bulb&#8230; well&#8230; I have no idea how to make any direct comparison in magnitude with that graph, given the x-axis is in a completely different measurement altogether (percentages), and the unit of measurement is still missing&#8230;
Any assistance that you could provide in this matter would be greatly appreciated!

 

[novice11]

I am considering the following bulb setup for a new 8 bulb Quantum Bad Boy in a 2' x 4' x 5.5' tent. Bulb budget is $250.00. I just priced it out, and I would be able to purchase the 12 bulbs below (4 blue rotated with 4 red) for $250.00 shipped from Aquarium Specialty.

I am really interested in hearing what you guys think:

VEGETATIVE
1 Giesemann aquaflora
2 UV Lighting 454
3 UV Lighting super actinic
4 Korallen Zucht fiji purple
5 Korallen Zucht fiji purple
6 UV Lighting super actinic
7 UV Lighting 454
8 Giesemann aquaflora



FLOWERING
1 Giesemann aquaflora
2 UV Lighting red sun
3 Korallen Zucht fiji purple
4 UV Lighting red sun
5 Giesemann aquaflora
6 UV Lighting red sun
7 Korallen Zucht fiji purple
8 UV Lighting red sun

Here's what I have:

1 FIJI Purple
2 RED SUN
3 Super Actinic
4 FIJI Purple
5 75.25 (VEG) /// RED SUN (BLOOM)
6 454
7 RED SUN
8 FIJI Purple

Note that you only need 9 bulbs, the 75.25 is for veg and swapped out with another RED SUN for BLOOM.

 

[Psytranceorgy]

I emailed Korallen Zucht as well, and asked them for spectrum data for each of their T5 bulbs. Will let you know if I hear anything...

 

[cannabineer]

This is a bit off topic, but I've been looking for a cooler running alternative to my 400W HPS for flowering. A normal grow is 16 48" T8 lamps for veg then a 400W HPS for flowering. As everyone knows a big problem with the HPS is heat. Once the HPS lamp is on so is the A/C. I thought LED's might be an option, this thread got me thinking. I haven't had any luck searching the internet for T8 lamps that come in the color spectrums mentioned here. In fact what I keep seeing is T8 sized LED lights for aquariums. Any suggestions for T8 lamps? I would really love to just try new lamps rather than getting a whole new fixture for T5's

smokeymarine, I looked online for them but no soap. It appears that the good stuff is specific to T5. Wish i could a helped ...
cheers 'neer

 

[pr0fesseur]

This is a bit off topic, but I've been looking for a cooler running alternative to my 400W HPS for flowering. A normal grow is 16 48" T8 lamps for veg then a 400W HPS for flowering. As everyone knows a big problem with the HPS is heat. Once the HPS lamp is on so is the A/C. I thought LED's might be an option, this thread got me thinking. I haven't had any luck searching the internet for T8 lamps that come in the color spectrums mentioned here. In fact what I keep seeing is T8 sized LED lights for aquariums. Any suggestions for T8 lamps? I would really love to just try new lamps rather than getting a whole new fixture for T5's

Why not just get a retrofit kit and change ballasts etc?

 

[pr0fesseur]

You probably know you can get more lumens and watts into the same amount of space with a T-5 while being more efficient on electrical usage, I'm not sure how long it would take to pay for it self but in the meantime your plants will love you for the upgrade.

t5's are 30% more efficient than t8 and last longer...
Ballasts and fixtures are CHEAP... you can get a decent ballast and fixture
http://www.cpesupply.com/default.aspx?page=item detail&itemcode=IBZT56L
hell even Home Depot sells them!

 

[MurshDawg]

smokeymarine, I looked online for them but no soap. It appears that the good stuff is specific to T5. Wish i could a helped ...
cheers 'neer

I know that in the Sunsystems catalog they sell t8 size LED bulbs They have read, blue, and red blue mix. They are called AgroLED

 

[pr0fesseur]

Ive seen t5 style bulbs on alibaba.. however those led batches are what we call "Bins" as in theyre not graded... they would have to be individually tested to determing exact spectra... leds are famous for inconsistancy.. where as a t5 bulb is the same irradiane along the entire tube... not to mention glass instead of plastic in front of the bulb... plastic does diffuse much more light than glass.. thats the reason they dont make plastic mirrors!

 

[Izoc666]

hey fellas its me again...I would like to hear from your opioion after i dont want to buy LED glow panel 45...so i went to my hydro store...they will sell me T5 (4 ft) for 123.00 with daylight it produce 10,000 lumens...so i thought it will be good start to invest with T5 ? so my question is about acquire the red and blue tubes, im not sure if its meet the standard grow with cannabis ? heres a link that i would like to order

http://www.quantumhort.com/quantum-triphosphor-lamps.html

I ll be highly appreicate , from your advice or tip...and hook me up if you know where the site that offer good deal of tubes thanks.