DWC Root Slime Cure aka How to Breed Beneficial Microbes

[RobertInAz]

Mr. Heisenberg,
Thank you for this wonderful information, and I apologize in advance if you've answered some or all of this before. I'm using an aeroponics system where the spray is on for about 30 seconds and then off for 4-5 minutes, in a double bucket system where the upper bucket houses the plants/roots and the lower bucket contains the rez. The roots get sprayed in the upper bucket and then the water and nutrients gravity drain back into the rez. My roots, therefore, are not hanging in standing water but rather get sprayed intermittantly. I am using Botanicare nutrients with Cal-Mag+, Liquid Karma, and Pro Grow during veg and Cal-Mag+, Sweet, Liquid Karma, and Pro Bloom during flower, as per Botanicare's direction. I add Hygrozyme at every rez change, which is about every 10 days. I have bought too much inventory of Botanicare products to change to Dutch Master at this time, but still would like to know what other changes you would make to my system to improve it. Should I, for instance, use your tea instead of Hygrozyme? That stuff is ridiculously expensive and I would love to eliminate it, but I have never had any slime problems and don't want to fix something that isn't broken without getting your wise counsel first. Thanks again, Bob

 

[mr.bond]

Mr. Heisenberg,
Thank you for this wonderful information, and I apologize in advance if you've answered some or all of this before. I'm using an aeroponics system where the spray is on for about 30 seconds and then off for 4-5 minutes, in a double bucket system where the upper bucket houses the plants/roots and the lower bucket contains the rez. The roots get sprayed in the upper bucket and then the water and nutrients gravity drain back into the rez. My roots, therefore, are not hanging in standing water but rather get sprayed intermittantly. I am using Botanicare nutrients with Cal-Mag+, Liquid Karma, and Pro Grow during veg and Cal-Mag+, Sweet, Liquid Karma, and Pro Bloom during flower, as per Botanicare's direction. I add Hygrozyme at every rez change, which is about every 10 days. I have bought too much inventory of Botanicare products to change to Dutch Master at this time, but still would like to know what other changes you would make to my system to improve it. Should I, for instance, use your tea instead of Hygrozyme? That stuff is ridiculously expensive and I would love to eliminate it, but I have never had any slime problems and don't want to fix something that isn't broken without getting your wise counsel first. Thanks again, Bob

Bob,

If you're not experiencing any issues, why change your methods? At the same time though, the beneficial tea is much more effective than the Hygrozyme or any related product. And yes it is significantly cheaper.

Cheers,
mr.bond

 

[Dustybowlz]

I want to start with "I just sat down for 2 days straight and read this thread front to back"

Now that thats over, I need to dial in my feeding. I know im feeding sugars and I believe some of the stuff has some organic material. I just know AN screws you and you need most of there crap not to get nute def's. Just too new of a grower to know whats needed or isnt. I do know EVERY CROP BEFORE has not been at peak potential due to crappy nute/water uptake due to crappy roots..... EFFING slime/pithium or what ever it is.

I am at the 3 day mark in bloom (2 day in veg) and am getting the most consistent ph swing ive ever had! I am going to top off my (just hitting 48hr mark when bloom lights turn on) tea and some RO. I am also noticing a double in water/nute uptake! Bloom is late, so theres no new roots but that doesnt mean the slime cant get the EFF out! VEG however is EXPLODING in new roots! There really sad in there so I know I need to do some trimming and look to the new growth, that will come with a few more weeks. I figure if I stay on the tea regimine and dial my feed schedule ill be GOLDEN.

I cant rep you enough MR/DR/SIR Heis.... Ill keep spreading this thread and teaching the way of the GODS TEA.

 

[RobertInAz]

Mr. Bond,
Thanks for your reply, but as to your question, "If you're not experiencing any issues, why change your methods?", my response is that I want to learn and improve if I can. Just because I don't currently have any issues doesn't mean that my harvests are the best that they could be, or that in the future a problem like slime might arise that would have been prevented by Heisenberg's tea. After reading his comments I'm convinced that he is way smarter than I am about this stuff, and I would like to hear what he would do to help me get better.
Thanks again, Bob

 

[legallyflying]

Well said. I would waaaaaay prefer to prevent problems than fix them.

 

[Heisenberg]

Hey, Heis. Okay, well I vegged a bunch of plants I started from feminized seeds, and I'm keeping the biggest strongest ones for mothers: White Widow, Trainwreck, OG Kush, NY-47 and a Blue Widow. I am about to take cuttings, and I'm going to use your cloning method with the bubble cloner you devised. I have about 3 weeks to go to go in the flower room before I harvest my current batch (Vanilla kush and Strawberry Diesel), and I am not sure if I am going to keep using my 10 gallon totes, or if I'm switching to 5 gallon buckets, so my question is this: using your cloning method (just brewed a fresh batch of tea), can I use only rockwool cubes with no net pot or hydroton and still get my clones to root successfully? This is my first attempt and cloning, so any advise you can give me will be greatly appreciated Thanks!

P.S. Jessie kicked your ass Sunday night, what's up with that?

I believe this would work just fine. I have never tried it but the only two dangers I can see is, the rockwool may not allow the water to flow freely around the stem causing pockets of anaerobic water, and if the stem is very new and tiny it may rot at the base of the cube where it stay wet all the time. So use decent cuttings and circulate the water as much as possible. An occasional drain would be helpful because as the water drains from the rockwool fresh air is pulled in from the top. Also I believe rapid rooter plugs are a little less dense, and may allow water to flow more freely.

Mr. Heisenberg,
Thank you for this wonderful information, and I apologize in advance if you've answered some or all of this before. I'm using an aeroponics system where the spray is on for about 30 seconds and then off for 4-5 minutes, in a double bucket system where the upper bucket houses the plants/roots and the lower bucket contains the rez. The roots get sprayed in the upper bucket and then the water and nutrients gravity drain back into the rez. My roots, therefore, are not hanging in standing water but rather get sprayed intermittantly. I am using Botanicare nutrients with Cal-Mag+, Liquid Karma, and Pro Grow during veg and Cal-Mag+, Sweet, Liquid Karma, and Pro Bloom during flower, as per Botanicare's direction. I add Hygrozyme at every rez change, which is about every 10 days. I have bought too much inventory of Botanicare products to change to Dutch Master at this time, but still would like to know what other changes you would make to my system to improve it. Should I, for instance, use your tea instead of Hygrozyme? That stuff is ridiculously expensive and I would love to eliminate it, but I have never had any slime problems and don't want to fix something that isn't broken without getting your wise counsel first. Thanks again, Bob

The best way to incorporate a change in your garden is to do a test site. This way you are not jeopardizing your normal yield. I have never used botanicares nutes, but the products I have used from them have been top quality, and I have read many good reviews. If your roots are never sitting in water, then you will never have to worry about them getting slime. Other disease may be a concern, but if you keep your res aerated you should be fine. So the only real reason for you to use tea is to save the money on hygrozyme. If I were you, I would pick up some mycogrow soluble and brew tea with only that product, and some molasses of course. You would not need the added diversity you get from incorporating other products like ancient forest. Your biggest risk IMO is that your sprayers could develop a biofilm and therefore clog. That is why it's best to do a test run if you can.

 

[RobertInAz]

Mr. Heisenberg,
Thank you for your thoughtful and comprehensive response. It is not feasible for me to do a test site -- all of my equipment is in continuous use and the 2 bedrooms that I grow in are pretty well full up. Also, I already ordered the EWC, etc., so what I think I will do is try your tea and keep a close eye on the spray nozzles for any build up of biofilm. Do you have an opinion on the silica additives?
Thanks again, Bob

 

[Heisenberg]

Do you have an opinion on the silica additives?

You can grow a completely healthy plant without silica additives, however that doesn't mean they are a bad idea. Silica is great for lending your plants strength. To a minor extent, silica will give your plants extra protection against stress that comes from movement, fungal and pest attacks, and even heat. Because the plant no longer has to divert as much energy to stress conditions, it now has more available for production, which includes roots, buds and trichomes. This translates into overall vigor which in the end helps to increase your yield. The amount of increase would depend on many factors, such as the degree of stress before and after the addition of silica, the strain, and of course yield is always constrained by the lowest limiting-factor.

Silica is always a nice addition, but I can think of at least two situations where it would be especially helpful. If someone is placing their cuttings into flower immediately after seeing roots, and for strains which tend to grow like vines. In both of these cases we normally end up with huge buds on the ends of narrow stems which need held up by string or steaks. Using silica from early on will help plants like these support themselves. Silica is not a mobile element within the plant, meaning the silica must be present in the root zone while new growth is being produced, or else it will never receive it from the plant (but foliar spraying can give it some)

 

[ramen86]

Ok Heisenberg. Its been a few days now, and I can say there is pretty much little to no slime in my buckets. However there is still a good amount of slime left over on the bottom of the net pots. I poured bennies in the hydroton as you and LF someone else reccomended but that didn't really seem to do the trick. Just now I dipped all the net pots into a bucket of h202 mixed with water and then into bennies for a little bit. 2 questions for you now my friend, cuz it seems we only have 2 options now. Should We

1. Take all the hydroton out of the net pot and replace it with new hydroton (dont know if this will shock the plants though, have never even heard of anyone doing this especially with the plants being over 2 weeks old)

OR

2. Just stick it out with what little slime is left and see what happens. I just think it would be a damn shame if we grew for 3 months under all this wattage having our bill high as hell and it having done nothing.

Thanks

EDIT: Me and my buds were also thinking, because they are so behind, and because we only have 2 more weeks left to veg, if we should change out the water and put in advanced nutes (sensi) to make them catch up. Would this effect them negatively in any way?

 

[Dustybowlz]

Ramen86- (makes me wonder if its a hachi reference) I think it was me they suggested to pour it down the net pot (well in the last 10 pages or so, there was another fellow they suggested it to somwhere up in the 40-50pg area or so aswell). Im not sure how advanced your slime is so im not sure if its the same as mine. One thing over the year of battling it before the tea, keep knocking it down with a spray bottle before rez changes. Ill have 2 bottles, one with 3% h202 @3ml per L and warm water in one and just warm water in another. I dont have recirc buckets in veg, I would spray the net pot and bottom with the h202 and then rince with the other (I didnt have option to take to sink), then I would change buckets and dump in all new bennes (I was using AN pirana and voodoo, didnt know I "needed" the tirantula so I was screwed even more then the product itself screws you, so it was a losing battle for me from start).

In a sence, knock down the pathogen numbers enough to let the good bennes gain control. Well that was what "I" try to do. This is my same method of attack now, just with better bennes. So far, better, faster results too!

I DO some of this after slime though, man its bad looking. My root ball is getting bound up and I see the brown nasty "lowering" its mass from my net pot/ root crown area into my root ball. Looks bad right now but I know it was just north of there and my root ball was just white, now its not. Ill just give it some more time and let it eat the rest. Man I am just soo very happy to have stable PH, that was my biggest problem I think. I hated the 2x a day maint.

EDIT-

*How much did you pour down the net pot? How long have you been on the tea regimine?

*Has it subsided at all or stay the same?

 

[Dustybowlz]

You can grow a completely healthy plant without silica additives, however that doesn't mean they are a bad idea.

I have plants thats buds out weigh there stems, not sure if small stem production is due to small root mass but they need staked. I wanted to try silica but havent trusted other peoples advice so I havent tried it yet.

*Can you taste the silica? Every time I try to buy it the hydro guy keeps telling me "Your picky man, Your gunna taste it, You and your damned ph problems, Last I wanna hear about is all this work and I taste silica" .... But ive yet to buy it.

*Another person said he adjusts his ph with silica not ph down? Again, I have no experience with the product.

 

[tyler.durden]

I believe this would work just fine. I have never tried it but the only two dangers I can see is, the rockwool may not allow the water to flow freely around the stem causing pockets of anaerobic water, and if the stem is very new and tiny it may rot at the base of the cube where it stay wet all the time. So use decent cuttings and circulate the water as much as possible. An occasional drain would be helpful because as the water drains from the rockwool fresh air is pulled in from the top. Also I believe rapid rooter plugs are a little less dense, and may allow water to flow more freely.

Thanks, Heis, I'll let you know how it turns out. I tried to +rep you, but apparently I have to spread more around first...

 

[hellraizer30]

I have plants thats buds out weigh there stems, not sure if small stem production is due to small root mass but they need staked. I wanted to try silica but havent trusted other peoples advice so I havent tried it yet.

*Can you taste the silica? Every time I try to buy it the hydro guy keeps telling me "Your picky man, Your gunna taste it, You and your damned ph problems, Last I wanna hear about is all this work and I taste silica" .... But ive yet to buy it.

*Another person said he adjusts his ph with silica not ph down? Again, I have no experience with the product.

never used it but ive seen people use it and theres been no I can taste it, like all thing in the end just taper off or wing them off
and you should be fine. you looking at useing silica blast?

 

[legallyflying]

I've never tasted silica. Besides it resides mostly in the woody stems not the flowers. I doubt you can taste it, unless your some completely full of shit conesieur. Those kings of cannabis crack me up. My buddy had a friend over and we were burning a joint and this asshole was like..." Yeah I can taste the botanicare nutes". My buddy and I looked at each other as even though we just checked out my grow (and nutes) this guy didn't know that the bud in the jar was gifted to me. "oh yeah, wow, what does it taste like"? "well it kinda has this subtle earthy tone to it that lingers just a bit before the fruitiness of the mango comes through".

We started cracking up "dude, shut the fuck up and pass me that fucker"

Just like the people that judge a bag of weed by smell alone.

 

[Heisenberg]

I have plants thats buds out weigh there stems, not sure if small stem production is due to small root mass but they need staked. I wanted to try silica but havent trusted other peoples advice so I havent tried it yet.

*Can you taste the silica? Every time I try to buy it the hydro guy keeps telling me "Your picky man, Your gunna taste it, You and your damned ph problems, Last I wanna hear about is all this work and I taste silica" .... But ive yet to buy it.

*Another person said he adjusts his ph with silica not ph down? Again, I have no experience with the product.

Silica will tend to make the solution more alkaline, but I wouldn't suggest using it for the sole reason of adjusting PH. It's questionable how much aeroponics would benefit form having it in the solution because it tends to precipitate quickly in air. You may want to add a foliar application to your regimen as well. Silica should not effect taste. From what I remember (can't find the links jus now) excess silica is exuded out of plants and transpires or is consumed by microbes in 24-48 hours, so if you do a short final flush you have no worries. The silica left in the plant should pose no problem because after all, plants grown in soil always have silica.

 

[RobertInAz]

You can grow a completely healthy plant without silica additives, however that doesn't mean they are a bad idea. Silica is great for lending your plants strength. To a minor extent, silica will give your plants extra protection against stress that comes from movement, fungal and pest attacks, and even heat. Because the plant no longer has to divert as much energy to stress conditions, it now has more available for production, which includes roots, buds and trichomes. This translates into overall vigor which in the end helps to increase your yield. The amount of increase would depend on many factors, such as the degree of stress before and after the addition of silica, the strain, and of course yield is always constrained by the lowest limiting-factor.

Silica is always a nice addition, but I can think of at least two situations where it would be especially helpful. If someone is placing their cuttings into flower immediately after seeing roots, and for strains which tend to grow like vines. In both of these cases we normally end up with huge buds on the ends of narrow stems which need held up by string or steaks. Using silica from early on will help plants like these support themselves. Silica is not a mobile element within the plant, meaning the silica must be present in the root zone while new growth is being produced, or else it will never receive it from the plant (but foliar spraying can give it some)

Mr. Heisenberg,
Thanks again for the time, effort, and knowledge you give so freely. If you ever want to collaborate on a book, let me know.
All the best, Bob

 

[Dustybowlz]

never used it but ive seen people use it and theres been no I can taste it, like all thing in the end just taper off or wing them off
and you should be fine. you looking at useing silica blast?

I wasnt sure. Since im using AN atm i was thinking of there ryno skin?

 

[hellraizer30]

I wasnt sure. Since im using AN atm i was thinking of there ryno skin?

never tried ryno but in my an exp stay with the basics all that other stuff is there to drain your pocket. big bud and b52 are awsome

 

[ramen86]

I can take pictures. Like I said, the slime is real bad on some of the net pots, but on others, its almost non noticable. The "tea" im brewing is nothing like the tea Heisenberg suggested (cuz we couldn't find the materials). But the BIG question I need answered now is this

Is it safe to remove all the hydroton from the net pots and completely change out the hydroton with a good rinse of the pots?

I only ask this because I talked to another 1 of my friends that grows in an under current but uses NO growing medium. So I just want to know if this is safe or not, if it doesn't screw the plants up or shock them, because thats what my buddies are leaning towards.

*How much did you pour down the net pot? How long have you been on the tea regimine?

*Has it subsided at all or stay the same?

I've poured bennies in the hydroton twice. There is absolutely NO MORE slime build up in the buckets, just the leftovers in the net pots, but the leftovers are still pretty bad themselves. I would say all in all the bennies (Subculture-B & Mykos) have helped a good amount.

 

[Dustybowlz]

I can take pictures. Like I said, the slime is real bad on some of the net pots, but on others, its almost non noticable. The "tea" im brewing is nothing like the tea Heisenberg suggested (cuz we couldn't find the materials). But the BIG question I need answered now is this

Is it safe to remove all the hydroton from the net pots and completely change out the hydroton with a good rinse of the pots?

I only ask this because I talked to another 1 of my friends that grows in an under current but uses NO growing medium. So I just want to know if this is safe or not, if it doesn't screw the plants up or shock them, because thats what my buddies are leaning towards.

I've poured bennies in the hydroton twice. There is absolutely NO MORE slime build up in the buckets, just the leftovers in the net pots, but the leftovers are still pretty bad themselves. I would say all in all the bennies (Subculture-B & Mykos) have helped a good amount.

This sounds just about like mine. Ive had 2 full harvests with it before the tea regimine.

Now that I have the tea, Im getting that after slime everyone talks about. Sounds like what you describe, could be wrong. Mine isnt really "IN" the net pot tho, just on the root crown, I have all new white growth around it. But it could have been how I cleaned my system.

If yours is IN your net pot like mine looked like it was at first. You could try this.

-Flushed out all old nutes,
-Added back half rez size fresh water and dump 3x gallons through net pot of h2o2/water.
-Then fill your rez with fresh phed h202 water.
-I filled mine up TO the net pot for 12 hours or so. I wanted the net pot to "soak" in the solution for a bit, not just "squirt" at it.
-Then I sprayed it with a bottle
-Drained rez
-Added back half rez size fresh water.
-Drained rez
-Refilled with phed water+ tea
-ran for 24 hours to make sure the pathogens didn have any food but dead roots.
-Added small amounts of nutes

(now I would have said everything was golden on my end. It seems good in veg, still got a good ph swing, but in bloom it was only stable for 4 days. Then it was back to dropping. I went in there to add my new bennies and noticed the drop. I added more bennies and phed water and here we are.