Belief Without Evidence WTF?

Hepheastus420

Well-Known Member
Nah I'd imagine it'd mean he wouldn have to,cos he'd know he was going to change his mind even before he decided it...ugh, confusing!
Lol it is way confusing. That's why I question my beliefs alot, I also come up with different conclusions, I just found out my beliefs are closely related to the beliefs of a Mormon. And even then I'm not really close to Mormons.

Is god always learning? He can't be. But if his intelligence is infinite he must always be learning. Or maybe he just knew he had to punish them for some reason we don't know yet.... IDK.
 

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
Lol it is way confusing. That's why I question my beliefs alot, I also come up with different conclusions, I just found out my beliefs are closely related to the beliefs of a Mormon. And even then I'm not really close to Mormons.

Is god always learning? He can't be. But if his intelligence is infinite he must always be learning. Or maybe he just knew he had to punish them for some reason we don't know yet.... IDK.
Well at least you think about it man. Why didn't you chime in before when I said about respecting people who make their own beliefs? Wouldve saved alot of arguing,lol.

I think most people on this thread more dislike the blind faith types.
 

SoCaldrums

Active Member
God's ways are not our ways, His thoughts are not our thoughts. I just finished a study of Job. I can boil it down to two words: shut up. Job and his "friends" went on and on about why God does what he does/allows what he allows, and finally God jumped in and said: "Shut up! Who are *you*? Were you there when I created the world? I know what I'm doing." I have LOTS of questions about God/the bible/etc. Questions are a *good* thing...because there *are* answers. I've stated why I believe the bible is true. No one here can state why it *isn't*.

Lol it is way confusing. That's why I question my beliefs alot, I also come up with different conclusions, I just found out my beliefs are closely related to the beliefs of a Mormon. And even then I'm not really close to Mormons.

Is god always learning? He can't be. But if his intelligence is infinite he must always be learning. Or maybe he just knew he had to punish them for some reason we don't know yet.... IDK.
 

Hepheastus420

Well-Known Member
Well at least you think about it man. Why didn't you chime in before when I said about respecting people who make their own beliefs? Wouldve saved alot of arguing,lol.

I think most people on this thread more dislike the blind faith types.
Oh sorry lol, I didn't even see it. I just scrolled down to the last few posts to see wherethe debate was at.
 

Hepheastus420

Well-Known Member
I know...but it was in your quoteback.
I never said he was a dick in any of my quotebacks. My intent wasn't meant for it to seem like I think he's a dick, simply because I don't think he's a dick. The things I say are because I honestly don't know anything about god. I have never seen him nor met him, someday I hope I do, but for now how do you expect me to be able to know why he did the things he did?
 

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
God's ways are not our ways, His thoughts are not our thoughts. I just finished a study of Job. I can boil it down to two words: shut up. Job and his "friends" went on and on about why God does what he does/allows what he allows, and finally God jumped in and said: "Shut up! Who are *you*? Were you there when I created the world? I know what I'm doing." I have LOTS of questions about God/the bible/etc. Questions are a *good* thing...because there *are* answers. I've stated why I believe the bible is true. No one here can state why it *isn't*.
No offense but you obviously didn't learn much dude, the Bible isn't supposed to be taken literally...can you not use any sort of logical reasoning towards it? You still havnt said how Noah fit all the animals in a boat with roughly the dimensions I stated before.

I mean rationally speaking a cubit can only be so long, 36cm being the reasonable maximum. Come on man, give me something believable, convince me...no insults.
 

Hepheastus420

Well-Known Member
God's ways are not our ways, His thoughts are not our thoughts. I just finished a study of Job. I can boil it down to two words: shut up. Job and his "friends" went on and on about why God does what he does/allows what he allows, and finally God jumped in and said: "Shut up! Who are *you*? Were you there when I created the world? I know what I'm doing." I have LOTS of questions about God/the bible/etc. Questions are a *good* thing...because there *are* answers. I've stated why I believe the bible is true. No one here can state why it *isn't*.
Why are you telling me this? Why are you trying to argue with me? I don't want to argue with you, I respect your beliefs just like I hope you respect mine. And that's exactly what I mean, I don't know why god did anything. And I have said many times that I hope god will do the right thing and he knows what he's doing, so that's that.

Also I'm not trying to come up with a reason the bible is false, I look for wisdom in everything, including the bible.
 

Hepheastus420

Well-Known Member
No offense but you obviously didn't learn much dude, the Bible isn't supposed to be taken literally...can you not use any sort of logical reasoning towards it? You still havnt said how Noah fit all the animals in a boat with roughly the dimensions I stated before.

I mean rationally speaking a cubit can only be so long, 36cm being the reasonable maximum. Come on man, give me something believable, convince me...no insults.
Here you go buddy, it's pretty legitimate and has been looked through thoroughly>>http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c013.html
A cubit is at least 45 cm long. It tells you more about the dimensions in the link.
 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
>>>>

My point, to the3 person who I posted it to, who claimed that Christians have done nothing productive/are useless/stupid/etc, is that most of our founding fathers were Christian.

The bible sucks at history?? Show me one example. Sucks at consistency? Show me one example.

Again- I believe the bible is true because there's tons of manuscript, archeological, prophetic and statistical evidence to support it. You reject it. Fine. Have a nice life. But please don't insult my intelligence by claiming you're "searching for answers". Not one person (that I can see) in this thread *is*. You've got your shrill 8th grades idiots, and your educated individuals who just want to show how educated they are. But there's no sincere searchers here. Which means we are *all* wasting our time.
The Treaty of Tripoli, drafted by George Washington and signed on January 3, 1797 by John Adams, outlines our founding fathers collective attitude on Christianity fairly well.

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
While this says nothing about the personal beliefs of the individual founders, it does demonstrate quite clearly that they did not want the US to be a Christian republic. The secularism of the constitution is what allows religion to be a free enterprise.

If we did look closer at the founders personal beliefs, what do we find? Lets look at some quotes. Look them up if you think they may be out of context.

"And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" - Thomas Jefferson

"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise, every expanded prospect." - James Madison

"I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies" - Benjamin Franklin

“The sacred rights of mankind are not to be rummaged for among old parchments or musty records. They are written, as with a sunbeam, in the whole volume of human nature, by the Hand of Divinity itself, and can never be erased or obscured by mortal power.”
- Alexander Hamilton


These are just a scant few of course. While none of these quotes suggests the fathers were atheists (far from it) they do suggest that the fathers (most of them) did not believe Christ was divine. When you claim that most of the founding fathers were Christians, you are not commenting on any history that actually happened.

I will satisfy your request for examples of incorrect biblical history and inconsistencies with my next post. Then we will examine your proposal that the bible is backed up by manuscript, archeological, prophetic and statistical evidence.
 

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
What is it that we should all be trying to do? We should all be trying to make the world a better place. But everyone is all talk and no action.

Their beliefs give them the excuse to sit around and talk, while doing nothing. So they can go on with their lives exactly as they were living it before.

Buying things they don't need instead of using their money responsibly to help others. They buy their new clothes without ever having to think about the people thousands of miles away who have NONE! These are just a couple examples.

Until they realize the truth, they will continue to believe what they want so they can keep living life the way they like, instead of giving back to the world, giving back to the universe.

They don't have to change because they think the world will change for them, or that it is out of their control... it is an excuse.

And they will sit, and they will wait. And nothing will happen because none of them are going to change their behaviors.

None of them will give up things they don't need, to people who need them. None of them will give up their comforts, to make others more comfortable. None of them will give up their fortunes, to help less unfortunates.

It is about equalizing our happiness with the rest of the worlds, and our beliefs give us the excuse to sit and wait, to do nothing about our own behavior. To continue being selfish in the guise of self-lessness.

Unless we change our behaviors, the world will stay in the hell it is in right now… until it may be too late.

All talk and no action.

We must all change our behavior to be better parts of ourselves.

But no one will... because we like our beliefs, homes, our video games, our shoes and clothes, our burgers and French fries, our drugs, alcohol and cigarettes.

To make change we must be change, but our beliefs give us the excuse to keep doing the same things over and over again without ever taking full responsibility for what we are doing, for every action we take, and how it affects EVERYONE… not just the people and places that surround you.

No one wants to give up what they have become attached to, whether it be materialistic items we don’t need, or beliefs we don’t need; they would rather turn their back on the world and be selfish, while parading around like they are making a difference, when they keep making the same decisions about their lives over and over again. The same patterns, which will not help the world but continue to drive it deeper and deeper into self-destruction.
All talk, and no action.


I believe to wake up, is to become utterly conscious about every single decision you make, about every single thought you think… and to take responsibility in doing what you know is right for each and every one of those decisions or thoughts.

I can lead you to water but I cannot make you drink, I can help you hear but I cannot make you listen, I can open your eyes but I cannot make you see. He who has ears let him hear, he who has eyes let him see.

Do what’s easy and continue to live life the way you like, the way you always have been, or do what’s hard and really truly believe in YOURSELF. not god.

dont be an excuse, be an example
 

Hepheastus420

Well-Known Member
What is it that we should all be trying to do? We should all be trying to make the world a better place. But everyone is all talk and no action.

Their beliefs give them the excuse to sit around and talk, while doing nothing. So they can go on with their lives exactly as they were living it before.

Buying things they don't need instead of using their money responsibly to help others. They buy their new clothes without ever having to think about the people thousands of miles away who have NONE! These are just a couple examples.

Until they realize the truth, they will continue to believe what they want so they can keep living life the way they like, instead of giving back to the world, giving back to the universe.

They don't have to change because they think the world will change for them, or that it is out of their control... it is an excuse.

And they will sit, and they will wait. And nothing will happen because none of them are going to change their behaviors.

None of them will give up things they don't need, to people who need them. None of them will give up their comforts, to make others more comfortable. None of them will give up their fortunes, to help less unfortunates.

It is about equalizing our happiness with the rest of the worlds, and our beliefs give us the excuse to sit and wait, to do nothing about our own behavior. To continue being selfish in the guise of self-lessness.

Unless we change our behaviors, the world will stay in the hell it is in right now… until it may be too late.

All talk and no action.

We must all change our behavior to be better parts of ourselves.

But no one will... because we like our beliefs, homes, our video games, our shoes and clothes, our burgers and French fries, our drugs, alcohol and cigarettes.

To make change we must be change, but our beliefs give us the excuse to keep doing the same things over and over again without ever taking full responsibility for what we are doing, for every action we take, and how it affects EVERYONE… not just the people and places that surround you.

No one wants to give up what they have become attached to, whether it be materialistic items we don’t need, or beliefs we don’t need; they would rather turn their back on the world and be selfish, while parading around like they are making a difference, when they keep making the same decisions about their lives over and over again. The same patterns, which will not help the world but continue to drive it deeper and deeper into self-destruction.
All talk, and no action.


I believe to wake up, is to become utterly conscious about every single decision you make, about every single thought you think… and to take responsibility in doing what you know is right for each and every one of those decisions or thoughts.

I can lead you to water but I cannot make you drink, I can help you hear but I cannot make you listen, I can open your eyes but I cannot make you see. He who has ears let him hear, he who has eyes let him see.

Do what’s easy and continue to live life the way you like, the way you always have been, or do what’s hard and really truly believe in YOURSELF. not god.

dont be an excuse, be an example
I like what you're saying, but what does it have to do with the topic of the thread? I'm not trying to be a dick BTW, :).
 

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
it doesnt really, just havent been able to get anyones input on that...or views, and i figured it i posted it on here more people might read it which would result in me being able to read more about what people think about it. i know its not the right place, but i just cant seem to get anyones criticisms on it.
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
>>>>

My point, to the3 person who I posted it to, who claimed that Christians have done nothing productive/are useless/stupid/etc, is that most of our founding fathers were Christian.

The bible sucks at history?? Show me one example. Sucks at consistency? Show me one example.

Again- I believe the bible is true because there's tons of manuscript, archeological, prophetic and statistical evidence to support it. You reject it. Fine. Have a nice life. But please don't insult my intelligence by claiming you're "searching for answers". Not one person (that I can see) in this thread *is*. You've got your shrill 8th grades idiots, and your educated individuals who just want to show how educated they are. But there's no sincere searchers here. Which means we are *all* wasting our time.
You're the only one I see being shrill.

You have nothing outside of the bible to support it's supernatural claims. The fact that some of the places mentioned in the bible actually existed at one time in no way demonstrates the veracity of the claims of the bible. In fact, archeology has shown that many of the places that were conquered by Joshua and the Israelites were already in ruins by the time of the supposed exodus. Dates and times don't match. There is virtually no evidence of the exodus in spite of the fact that the Egyptians were fastidious record keepers. It is useless to use prophecy to support your claims unless you can definitively demonstrate that additions were not made after the fact. Other than that, how about if you list some of this evidence to support the historicity of the bible.
 

Hepheastus420

Well-Known Member
it doesnt really, just havent been able to get anyones input on that...or views, and i figured it i posted it on here more people might read it which would result in me being able to read more about what people think about it. i know its not the right place, but i just cant seem to get anyones criticisms on it.
Well I honestly think that most people aren't gonna do what is right because they are too lazy. I know that doesn't justify it, but it's the sad sad truth. Instead of writing down reasons why people are screwed up because of their possessions how about you make a thread that can be used as a discussion and a step by step guide to separating from our materialistic world and gain true happiness. Like the first step could be trying to convince all of RIU to join a donation service that helps aide third world countries.
Do you get what I'm saying? People are lost and they need you to show them the path, so go ahead and show them dude. Good luck on getting people's attention, if you need help I'll bump the thread a few times until it lifts off with criticism.
 

Hepheastus420

Well-Known Member
You're the only one I see being shrill.

You have nothing outside of the bible to support it's supernatural claims. The fact that some of the places mentioned in the bible actually existed at one time in no way demonstrates the veracity of the claims of the bible. In fact, archeology has shown that many of the places that were conquered by Joshua and the Israelites were already in ruins by the time of the supposed exodus. Dates and times don't match. There is virtually no evidence of the exodus in spite of the fact that the Egyptians were fastidious record keepers. It is useless to use prophecy to support your claims unless you can definitively demonstrate that additions were not made after the fact. Other than that, how about if you list some of this evidence to support the historicity of the bible.
There's not too much historic evidence that supports the bible, but you must admit there's some.... just a little.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
it doesnt really, just havent been able to get anyones input on that...or views, and i figured it i posted it on here more people might read it which would result in me being able to read more about what people think about it. i know its not the right place, but i just cant seem to get anyones criticisms on it.
Zaehet, this is the most plain human down-to-earth thing I've seen you post in my short tenure as an SS&P participant. It's approachable.
If I contrast it with your previous post, I see why I've been unmoved to respond to your more usual posts. In them, you're so declarative, so sure of yourself (imo). It doesn't seem like you're inviting discussion so much as dispensing what you feel is truth. To my eyes that truth is uniformly vague in a way that makes isolating a "talking point" and building dialog around it ... not easy. I cannot critique a mirage. So I shook my head, thought "another Strife Strafe(tm)" and moved on.
My suggestion is that if you're really inviting a discussion, post something more limted, more bounded and definite. Jm$.02. cn
 
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