How To: DWC
- Thread starter VoidObject
- Start date
VoidObject
DWC/Bubbleponics Mod
Looks like they'll come in in no time. In my experience with net pots and DWC.. the roots like to fill up the net pot first if you have the water on or above the net pot. That's why a lot of bubbleheads like to lower their water level after roots show, although I just leave it at the bottom of the net pot.
VoidObject
DWC/Bubbleponics Mod
lol.. yeah.. no problem
VoidObject
DWC/Bubbleponics Mod
Are you sure it was the PH spike? Looks like burn to me.. I.E. nute burn. I'd wait til she calms down a bit to FIM, since she just got stressed. Wait a couple days.
Fykshun
Active Member
Hey VO, I have been doing DWC nearly identically to your simple breakdown, even to the double air stone, but recently got a few pointers from my co-op operators and thought I'd share: I have recently swapped out the air stone in favor of the irrigation ring the General Hydro supplies for its waterfarm products. It's just as easy as air stones, but I'm seeing great improvement in root and foliage health. Have you tried this method? It may be worth offering up a few simple variants to give novices a few directions to begin experimenting. Just thoughts; and glad to see some alignment in methods.
VoidObject
DWC/Bubbleponics Mod
Mmm the irrigation ring is a water pump drip system yes? I wouldn't replace the airpump/stones for drip, especially in an all organic system.
Whereas you do get some nutrient recirculation and even slight water aeration.. it probably does not produce as much aeration as an air pump/stones.
Fykshun
Active Member
Actually, the irrigation ring is fed by reverse pressure - an air pump airline is fed over a port in the side of an open ended tube, and as air bubbles flood into the base of the res (aerating as much as one of my stones used to) it also forces water back up the open tube and into the irrigation ring, which coughs and sputters aerated nutes into the clay balls. I had the same concern that you did, but my advisor said, trust me - do a comparison, so I did. I have two pineapple express clones (same mom), one is in drip ring setup, the other in the DWC plus air stone. There is no comparison - drip ring is king. I'll post the compared plant pics here later tonight. I don't intend to barge in and debate, but I think experimenting is great and some folks are just afraid to do it, and they look to guys like you with a lot of rep to get good ideas. Peace.
VoidObject
DWC/Bubbleponics Mod
Good explanation, care to tell me how much you got your ring/ring-accessories for? If it actually is putting (more) air into the bottom than an air pump it might be worth getting into.
Fykshun
Active Member
I can't remember if links are allowed (I'm placing one here, but you can also simply query Amazon for General Hydroponics Drip Ring Assembly Kit): http://www.amazon.com/General-Hydroponics-Waterfarm-Plumbing-Kit/dp/B002JLC15U. I bought mine from a local hydro shop for
$12 a piece.
You can see from the picture in the link (minus the dark blue water level tube - I never use this and prefer fewer holes in my buckets) that there is no water pump needed - this is air pump operated only - air goes down into res and forces water back up the irrigation tube. You shouldn't pay more than 15 bucks, and I hope you can find one for 10. I have placed some pics below. I highly suggest playing with it, and relaying your finds here, as I don't have nearly the sway that you do in regard to doling out trusted tips.
I'm showing the root system in my air stone plant only to show that it is indeed a good system, just not as prolific as the other - by the way I use GH 3 part Flora series nutes, which stain my roots brown, in case you thought I might have a different issue). I've also tried to capture the water movement in the bottom of my res with a drip ring (sorry it doesn't seem to show much). The overall pic just gives you an idea of my setup. Thanks for entertaining a newb that likes discussion.
By the way, I have seen this kit fitted for a 6 inch netpot lid, though I use the 10 inch - I can't vouch for the distribution of water in a 6 inch (I was initially worried about overwatering - I was way off base, as the constant drip is absolutely essential, but again the 6 inch causes me a little hesitation - so much water, so little medium)
$12 a piece.
You can see from the picture in the link (minus the dark blue water level tube - I never use this and prefer fewer holes in my buckets) that there is no water pump needed - this is air pump operated only - air goes down into res and forces water back up the irrigation tube. You shouldn't pay more than 15 bucks, and I hope you can find one for 10. I have placed some pics below. I highly suggest playing with it, and relaying your finds here, as I don't have nearly the sway that you do in regard to doling out trusted tips.
I'm showing the root system in my air stone plant only to show that it is indeed a good system, just not as prolific as the other - by the way I use GH 3 part Flora series nutes, which stain my roots brown, in case you thought I might have a different issue). I've also tried to capture the water movement in the bottom of my res with a drip ring (sorry it doesn't seem to show much). The overall pic just gives you an idea of my setup. Thanks for entertaining a newb that likes discussion.
By the way, I have seen this kit fitted for a 6 inch netpot lid, though I use the 10 inch - I can't vouch for the distribution of water in a 6 inch (I was initially worried about overwatering - I was way off base, as the constant drip is absolutely essential, but again the 6 inch causes me a little hesitation - so much water, so little medium)
VoidObject
DWC/Bubbleponics Mod
You can link, just not advertise.
Also I know other people using the Flora series with staining, and even others with out it, but root stains are easy to tell from pythium.
So tell me, how does the ring hook up to your air pump?
Also I know other people using the Flora series with staining, and even others with out it, but root stains are easy to tell from pythium.
So tell me, how does the ring hook up to your air pump?
Fykshun
Active Member
Sure thing - take a look at one of my close-ups above (or pics in my journal - sig line), and note the airline somehow fitting into the assembly; here's what's happening:
Pieces:
1 housing tube, which is a hollow tube as tall as a 5gal bucket with a diameter about the size of nickel.
1 pumping column, which is a hollow tube the same length as the housing tube, but half the diameter or smaller yet. The pumping column has a small spout at what will be its bottom, and which is where the airline attaches.
1 drip ring, which is a rigid but bendable poly-plastic tube, with aeration holes drilled down one side
Assembly and operation:
1. Punch hole through bottom of net pot lid (against a side) big enough to slide housing tube through, and not so big that you'll lose your balls - don't worry, this is a cinch to do right
2. slide housing tube in place
3. While still separate from system, attach an airline from the air pump to the spout at the bottom of the pumping column.
4. Run pumping column (with attached airline pointing down) through the housing tube until you hit bottom.
5. Your drip ring is pre-bent into a perfect circle with a plastic t-fitting holding both ends of the circle together. This t-fitting also has a third hole for the top end of your pumping column to fit into (like a halo on a stick) - fit the ring into place over your pumping column
6. Put in your medium, plant, and nute soup, and turn on your air.
The result is that the rush of air creates pressure inside the pumping column causing nute soup to be displaced UP the tube, and a ton of turbulence (aeration) out the bottom.
I admit that an air stone puts out way more tiny bubbles, therefor creating more surface area of O2 to interact with the H2O, but I believe what I see over spoken theory any day, and what I see so far is hands-down better.
Good luck!
Pieces:
1 housing tube, which is a hollow tube as tall as a 5gal bucket with a diameter about the size of nickel.
1 pumping column, which is a hollow tube the same length as the housing tube, but half the diameter or smaller yet. The pumping column has a small spout at what will be its bottom, and which is where the airline attaches.
1 drip ring, which is a rigid but bendable poly-plastic tube, with aeration holes drilled down one side
Assembly and operation:
1. Punch hole through bottom of net pot lid (against a side) big enough to slide housing tube through, and not so big that you'll lose your balls - don't worry, this is a cinch to do right
2. slide housing tube in place
3. While still separate from system, attach an airline from the air pump to the spout at the bottom of the pumping column.
4. Run pumping column (with attached airline pointing down) through the housing tube until you hit bottom.
5. Your drip ring is pre-bent into a perfect circle with a plastic t-fitting holding both ends of the circle together. This t-fitting also has a third hole for the top end of your pumping column to fit into (like a halo on a stick) - fit the ring into place over your pumping column
6. Put in your medium, plant, and nute soup, and turn on your air.
The result is that the rush of air creates pressure inside the pumping column causing nute soup to be displaced UP the tube, and a ton of turbulence (aeration) out the bottom.
I admit that an air stone puts out way more tiny bubbles, therefor creating more surface area of O2 to interact with the H2O, but I believe what I see over spoken theory any day, and what I see so far is hands-down better.
Good luck!
VoidObject
DWC/Bubbleponics Mod
Sorry to hear about that Fyk.. live and learn.
OGEvilgenius
Well-Known Member
What are your thoughts on Heath's systems that don't use airstones? He used a continual flow of water and strict temperature control to keep his water oxygenated (except early growth where I believe his flow was more restricted). In your experience is such a system problematic? It seems easier to maintain temperature wise (no bubblers causing rising temps) and of course there is less power draw which means it's a bit cheaper to put together as well.
He also advised against having a gap between your roots and the water as it causes the roots to develop differently and less efficiently (emphasis is less on growth and more on support).
Fykshun
Active Member
For what it's worth, I think the resources (time, effort, equipment - water chillers, heaters, pumps to move it all...) to strictly steady your water temps, are probably going to equal or surpass the cost of just keeping oxygenated...but I have not tried it myself, and if results prove to be better than a traditional stone setup, I'm intrigued!
VoidObject
DWC/Bubbleponics Mod
Depending on how much your time is worth, the way I chill my rezes may trump everything in monetary costs.
Fykshun
Active Member
Hey VO, from what I recall, you're not moving water through a recirc with a submersible pump, right? I just checked out this Heath method, and also took a peek at sqydro's DWC Without Air Stones thread, and I think res temps appear the largest issue; are you referring to filling h2o bottles and freezing them for res insertion? Just how much more strict do you think the temps have to be in a non-stoned system (hehe...so to speak)?