Coloured fluorescent lights and their viability in growing chambers

canadian1969

canadian1969

Well-Known Member
Thanks man that make a tonne of sense, pricing was very helpful. Right now I figure I can do a few things, mainly go with a different set of 2700's other than the ones I have (probably will buy some others just for comparison) -or- just add more 2700's (or combination of both) -or- add in something more robust like a full spectrum bulb (probably a good idea) -or- add in light wavelength specific bulbs to enhance one or both ends of the spectrum during (veg or flower) i.e. adding either blue or red lights into the mix. Which would work, but we are back to efficiency issues.

T5's just aren't in the budget, not because of the bulb price, but I would need a whole kit. Maybe after the income tax returns come in March/12. :-)

On a bit of a side note, I have seen in a couple places people buying these things from eBay and I can't help but wonder why, maybe not as stupid an idea as coloured CFL's, but when you look at the wattage and the number of diodes... well outside of maybe a PC case grow I just dont know if even that would be worth it. Seems like a ripoff to me. Lots of people buying them, lots of fancy talk and such.
 
Gastanker

Gastanker

Well-Known Member
canadian1969 said:
Thanks man that make a tonne of sense, pricing was very helpful. Right now I figure I can do a few things, mainly go with a different set of 2700's other than the ones I have (probably will buy some others just for comparison) -or- just add more 2700's (or combination of both) -or- add in something more robust like a full spectrum bulb (probably a good idea) -or- add in light wavelength specific bulbs to enhance one or both ends of the spectrum during (veg or flower) i.e. adding either blue or red lights into the mix. Which would work, but we are back to efficiency issues.

T5's just aren't in the budget, not because of the bulb price, but I would need a whole kit. Maybe after the income tax returns come in March/12. :-)

On a bit of a side note, I have seen in a couple places people buying these things from eBay and I can't help but wonder why, maybe not as stupid an idea as coloured CFL's, but when you look at the wattage and the number of diodes... well outside of maybe a PC case grow I just dont know if even that would be worth it. Seems like a ripoff to me. Lots of people buying them, lots of fancy talk and such.
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Keeping in mind operational costs compared to purchase costs CLFs are great. I can often find 4 packs of 2700K bulbs for $1 at the dollar store and during sales at home depot and lowes - $0.25 per 23w bulb means you can run a ton of wattage for an equivalent price to other lower wattage systems.

Those .3w leds are garbage. Some of the newer led fixtures with 3w+ leds are decent but they are just so expensive due to being very new. And always keep in mind that LEDs do not run by wattage - a 3w LED pulls 1-1.5w depending on hertz so most quoted wattages on those units are garbage - the 90w UFOs run at ~45w which isn't a good thing, it just means your paying a ton for practically no light.
 
canadian1969

canadian1969

Well-Known Member
Those .3w leds are garbage. Some of the newer led fixtures with 3w+ leds are decent but they are just so expensive due to being very new. And always keep in mind that LEDs do not run by wattage - a 3w LED pulls 1-1.5w depending on hertz so most quoted wattages on those units are garbage - the 90w UFOs run at ~45w which isn't a good thing, it just means your paying a ton for practically no light
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Ya, I hear you, I dont think people really know how diodes work, plus efficiency, life expectancy and output all depend on how you drive them. You really need to be able to see the data sheets on the diodes the manufacturer is using to make an educated buy. (or build it yourself $$$$).
 
canadian1969

canadian1969

Well-Known Member
Reads like an advert for induction lighting, so does every single other post you have made on this forum, hmmm. If you are a vendor plugging a product/website you should probably be a RIU sponsor and identify yourself as such.
I'm not sure how relevant induction lighting is to this thread as it remains very expensive. I also doubt that any difference in final dry weight would be attributed to increased oil production. Overall plant mass, sure; oil, meh.
 
canadian1969

canadian1969

Well-Known Member
Yep, watched the video, looks like a advertizement, not an attack, just the impression your post and the video gave me. Plus seeing other references in other post (of yours) to the inda-grow and the associated web site from the clearly commercial youtube channel. Just letting you know that you posts seem to come off that way, to me at least. Apologies if I offended you, wasn't my intention.

Who was the "very experienced grower" you are referring to? The video seems to state that the grow was conducted in Michigan, yet the channel is from a store in California. Just doesn't come across as truly "independent and objective". Thanks for the info though.
 
canadian1969

canadian1969

Well-Known Member
I can't for the life of me figure out how these light manufactures come by the colour temperature calculations that they use to rate their bulbs. By my math a light that is radiating at 20000 Kelvin would be at a wavelength of 144nm which obviously CANT be correct for this application as thats UVC and would simply sterilize everything, so at best we can just assume the higher the temperature rating a bulb has... the larger the proportion of Blue light it is going to have (only take that as a rule of thumb at best). As you have seen; the total spectral output of the bulb is really of interest. Different bulbs will have different SPD graphs and that's based on the materials that go into making the bulb. Different phosphor mixes in fluorescents will create a range of wavelength outputs, where a metal halide output range is dependent on the gas/metal mixture used. So the Atinic having more red output is totally reasonable. The only thing that confuses the issue is the somewhat arbitrary colour temperature ratings.

In my opinion the final assessment should be made on the SPD, wavelength peaks, Wattage, lamp life span and Lumen output. Not the colour temperature rating. In fact, I choose to ignore it as anything other than a loose representation of how the light may be "perceived" (cool warm, blue, red, daylight etc). I dont know squat about coral, aquatic plants or aquariums, but I think the physics is on my side here.
 
Undercover Cop

Undercover Cop

Active Member
um, your red party cfl bulb is a regular (admitedly unsure the original kelvin rating used) but is just a regular cfl that is painted red. True the red wavelengths are passing through and are visible, and these wavelengths are usable by the plant. But all the colors that are being blocked by the red paint are just being wasted as heat and nothing more. You prob could use them to supplement, and possibly even grow with (they would be super spindly and woud stretch out trying to find the light it REALLY needs) but you're basically getting substantially less of the emitted photon energy used by plants in photosynthesis than you would get in a normal unfiltered cfl.
I know what you're getting at and it would be a waste of time/energy. The use of green party bulbs to light up the dark cycle shows that the green paint coating is absorbing all the other spectrums being emitted and is only allowing the green to pass which is non-photoreactive by chlorophyll. The red party bulb will absorb all the spectrums except the red, so while you WILL be getting only the red spectrum, you're just wasting the watts because you're getting the same red spectrums as well as other usable frequencies in your average 2700k bulb. They're not like T5's or bulbs that display their kelvin rating. They actually emit light at that specific temperature (made up of a blend of frequencies that all even out at a certain temp). The party bulbs are just painted and block all but the desired temp.
I skipped a few pages of babbling so im sorry If I missed that someone already clarified. I could tell what some of the others were getting at but they ended up getting snotty...

:peace:
 
Phaeton

Phaeton

Active Member
I use colored T5 aquarium tubes for sidelights. I cannot find any dyes or paint over the tube at all. Just white powder inside the clear glass.
Turn them on and then the colors show. I 'spose if I were silly and thought all fluorescent lights were the same, just painted different, why, then I would buy the cheapest and be disappointed.

Glad I am not a silly person.
When the box says "party bulb" and the price is $1.59 then the product is going to be different than one that says "maximum growth", has a spectral output graph and a price of $23.79.
Sure enough, the party bulbs don't grow and the grow bulbs don't party.

I doubt painted bulbs would increase my yield by 15% like the Zoo Med Flora Sun T5 HO's do.

Hope I am not reposting, but the third time a responder refused to understand that all fluorescent lights are not painted the emitting color I skipped ahead.

Here, have a veg picture with red, blue, and UV, all together.

UV clone day 3 veg.JPG

Or a budding picture with red and blue on the side.

Indica canopy.JPG

Look, output graphs on the boxes, nowhere does it say what brand of paint is used.

Bulb spectrums-UV grow.JPG

I post for fun, nobody will change their cherished opinions because of silly facts, I know this.
 
S

stak

Well-Known Member
Phaeton said:
Hope I am not reposting, but the third time a responder refused to understand that all fluorescent lights are not painted the emitting color I skipped ahead.
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he was refusing to accept it because obtaining facts was not the point of this thread. he didn't want to be told he was wrong. he only wanted people to come here and post things like "omg, I can't believe no one ever thought about that", "you're a freaking genius", "yeah party bulbs will help you triple your yield", "oh thank you oh wise OP you have revolutionized the growing industry with your discovery".
 
mysunnyboy

mysunnyboy

Well-Known Member
stak said:
he was refusing to accept it because obtaining facts was not the point of this thread. he didn't want to be told he was wrong. he only wanted people to come here and post things like "omg, I can't believe no one ever thought about that", "you're a freaking genius", "yeah party bulbs will help you triple your yield", "oh thank you oh wise OP you have revolutionized the growing industry with your discovery".
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bahahaaa thats so true :clap:
 
sso

sso

Well-Known Member
well, the op is right

..

you could add specific wavelengths to a grow with cfls and filters.


the only trouble is that the filters cut out much of the usable light (even in the wavelength you only want)

so the bulb becomes even less efficient.

but

if you dont mind that

then yes, you can do what you originally asked. (according to all info ive read on the matter)
 
Phaeton

Phaeton

Active Member
http://donklipstein.com/f-spec.html

I consider this cheating and hate to do it.

The above link lists the fluorescent types, the phosphors, the wavelengths, the outputs, the brand names, the ratio's, all the stuff that is so much fun to argue about.

Before somebody gets silly again.
 
Gastanker

Gastanker

Well-Known Member
Phaeton said:
I use colored T5 aquarium tubes for sidelights. I cannot find any dyes or paint over the tube at all. Just white powder inside the clear glass.
Turn them on and then the colors show. I 'spose if I were silly and thought all fluorescent lights were the same, just painted different, why, then I would buy the cheapest and be disappointed.

Glad I am not a silly person.
When the box says "party bulb" and the price is $1.59 then the product is going to be different than one that says "maximum growth", has a spectral output graph and a price of $23.79.
Sure enough, the party bulbs don't grow and the grow bulbs don't party.

I doubt painted bulbs would increase my yield by 15% like the Zoo Med Flora Sun T5 HO's do.

Hope I am not reposting, but the third time a responder refused to understand that all fluorescent lights are not painted the emitting color I skipped ahead.

Here, have a veg picture with red, blue, and UV, all together.

View attachment 1893073

Or a budding picture with red and blue on the side.

View attachment 1893074

Look, output graphs on the boxes, nowhere does it say what brand of paint is used.

View attachment 1893086

I post for fun, nobody will change their cherished opinions because of silly facts, I know this.
Click to expand...
$23 for a $1.50 bulb with just an increase of 15%? So... 15% increase or run 4x as many lumen?

15% increase = 115%
4x as many lumen = 400%

Growing with highly targeted spectral flourescents doesn't pencil in.

Lets do a simple cost comparison - a decent 18w T8 6500k bulb is $.80 - 1.20. A cheap actinic 17w T8 bulb is $10 and an expensive one is $20. These bulbs should be replaced about every three grows. Operational cost of one 17w bulb for 9 weeks of flower: .017kW * 12hrs * 9weeks * 7days/week * $0.12/kWh = $1.54 So instead of spending $15 on the actinic every third grow you could instead run four times as many 6500K/2700K bulbs for the same price with a more complete spectrum.

 Atinics are like asking an HID user to pay $800 per bulb instead of $80 for a bulb because one produces 15% more. The 15% isn't worth the cost.
 
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