DWC Root Slime Cure aka How to Breed Beneficial Microbes

[mr. green thumb 01]

Found ZHO, Aquashield and the forest soil suggested... Mixed them all up and let it sit for 24 hours as said. Just dumped 1 cup per gal into 2 dwc buckets, 1 aero cloner, and 1 aero flowering unit. The girls in the flower unit are most affected by the slime right now, I'll post in a few days as to how it turns out.

You dont leave it sit for 24 hrs. You brew it with lots of air for 48hrs not 24. 24hrs is effective but not as effective as 48. I think you need to carefully re-read the instructions. Your mix is anaerobic (bad) if you left it sit for 24hrs with no air.

 

[mr.bond]

Found ZHO, Aquashield and the forest soil suggested... Mixed them all up and let it sit for 24 hours as said. Just dumped 1 cup per gal into 2 dwc buckets, 1 aero cloner, and 1 aero flowering unit. The girls in the flower unit are most affected by the slime right now, I'll post in a few days as to how it turns out.

yeah if you just let them sit in a bucket, and did not brew them with any air, then you've likely just made the slime even worse. youll want to start a new batch very soon. and yes, 48 hours as mr. greenthumb, and heisenberg, and me, and many others have said....... not 24. not 36. not 72. just 48. brew the AF and Aquashield with tons of air for 48 hours, and add the ZHO an hour before the end of the brew. let us know if it works out.

cheers and good luck
mr.bond

 

[herbalife]

So I read the whole thread.....

Hey Heisenberg, I tried to sum up what I learned here and keep it safe from the ravages of my memory, could you please look over the summary and let me know if I've screwed anything up? Feel free to use it any way you wish. Posted as follows:




So I realize this is not new information to some, and has probably been posted here before. I take no credit for this information, it is simply things I have gleaned from reading Heisenberg's wonderful thread on brewing your own cheap, easy beneficial bacteria for curing root and water issues in hydroponics. If anyone is interested in much more in depth info read the thread in its entirety, I can only do my best here to sum up the relevant info.

Everything is from this great sticky: DWC Root Slime Cure aka How to Breed Beneficial Microbes
I recently read through the whole thing and wanted to sum things up for anyone interested. I am also benefiting myself as this will be forgotten if I don't take notes

Keep in mind while reading that I do not necessarily have any experience implementing any of this.


Why Would I Use This?

• Unless using a sterilizing product (physan 20, H202), most hydroponics solutions will breed bacteria in the water (though low reservoir temperatures slow growth, this is almost inevitable).
• Frequent reservoir changes keep the water clean and fresh, preventing bad bacterias from causing root rot or other problems. Drain-to-waste or ebb&flow systems may have less problems with this, DWC is particularly susceptible.
• Products like Great White, ZHO, Mycogrow, Aquashield, etc.. contain beneficial bacteria (bennies) to inoculate root systems and any porous surface bennies can latch onto (hydroton, container walls, airstones) but are generally expensive.
• By using a combination of only a few of the most diverse/best/cheapest products an EarthWorm Casting Tea can be brewed by aerating a solution for 48 hours using only small amounts of these products to provide a diverse population of beneficial bacterium and fungi to inoculate hydroponic solutions and combat any bad bacteria, allowing for explosive root growth, general plant heath, lower nutrient ppm levels necessary, and higher safe reservoir temperatures.

1.) The parts required:
$6 - MycoGrow™ Soluble mycorrhizal fungi mix
Fungi Perfecti: MycoGrow™ mycorrhizal products

$15 - Botanicare ZHO mycorrhizal fungi mix
Zho Root Inoculant | Botanicare

$33 - General Hydroponics Ancient Forest earthworm castings
GENERAL HYDROPONICS: Ancient Forest
- some sort of container
- airpump and airstone, 1W air pump power per gallon of water

The products listed can be substituted for similar items, but the chosen items have been found to be cheapest/best/most diverse. Great White powder and Roots Excelurator are stupid expensive. (Not to mention Roots Excelurator contains anaerobic bacteria and specifically says not to use it with airstones). Most anything containing sugar can be used in place of molasses, it just provides food for the bennies.

These products do have their own dosage and application directions, ignore them and brew the tea. It will be more beneficial and make more efficient use of the ingredients than using them separately.

2.) Combine the following in these ratios:
- 1 gallon dechlorinated water (if tap, let sit 24 hours or aerate)
- 1 tsp (5mL) Mycogrow soluble
- 1 tsp (5mL) ZHO powder
- 3/4 tbsp (11.25 mL) unsulfured molasses
- 1/8 cup (30 mL) Ancient Forest EWC

Small amounts brewed at a time are best as the tea remains usable for 7-10 days after brewing (only if refrigerated to slow bacterial/fungal growth!). If unrefrigerated must be used immediately or the bennies fight amongst themselves and the biological diversity degrades.

3.) Add to container, mix thoroughly, keep temperature 70-80F if possible, aerate for 48 hours.
- unless water pH is way off do not pH adjust before or after brewing
- a biofilm of foam should appear indicating good biological activity
- foam may not appear if water is too cold to 'wake up' the bennies but tea may still function at some level
- certain fungi will 'activate' in the tea but not reproduce and multiply, a small extra amount of ZHO powder (or any product with only fungi) can be added to the tea just before use to add additional fungi (but not at all necessary)
- tea is best brewed at the reservoir temperature it will be used at to ensure the different types of bennies are in the same ratio at the end of brewing as they will be when in the hydroponics system (however temperatures below 70F will not work as well)

4.) Immediately after brewing use tea as follows:
- strain tea using cheesecloth or similar, pour directly on roots, through netcups/hydroton, and directly into reservoir to innoculate the system
- 1 cup per gallon of total system water for fixing problems
- 1 cup per 10 gallons for general system health maintenance
- add a cup or so directly to roots every 3 days or so

Leftover tea can be refrigerated for use up to 7-10 days. The cold will slow down biological activity and keep the population diverse. If tea starts to smell like anything besides "mossy" or "earthy", throw it away. Especially if it smells like shit.

After innoculating hydroponics systems with bennies make sure to dilute any pH adjusters before adding them as the concentrate can kill them (good practice anyway to avoid nutrients being forced out of solution aka flocculation).

OK What Am I Doing?
The idea is that these bennies will destroy any bad anerobic bacteria and causes of root issues, make enzymes (think Hygrozyme), eat dead roots, and assist the plant in the uptake of nutrients and root growth. The molasses is used in tea purely to provide food, it should all be eaten by the bennies after the 48 hours brewing time so none will make it into the hydroponics system if brewed in the correct ratios. Any sugar containing products are food for bacteria and should not be added to hydroponics systems suffering from root issues, it can make the problem worse.

We expect the bennies to start dying immediately after brewing the tea, the idea is that we want them to eat anything extraneous in the reservoir but run out of food immediately keeping the system clean and healthy. This is why a fresh batch of tea is added periodically, to keep the most biologically diverse population of bennies possible and continually replenish them.

TLDR; This is highly recommended for anyone fighting root rot or other issues, pare your nutrient regimen down to the bare N-P-K essentials (remove any extra products that may be excaberating problems) and introduce Heisenberg tea, you won't regret it.

I believe even if a hydro system has no issues the bennies will grow better herb than a sterile system.

 

[georgeforeman]

hi guys, seems like my battles continue. I have switch over the mr bonds suggested 5 gal recipe, so i hope this will improve. Plant growth has doubled in the past few days, but root growth is lagging. The brown easily cleans off when i shake the roots underwater.

 

[CaliMackdaddy]

hi guys, seems like my battles continue. I have switch over the mr bonds suggested 5 gal recipe, so i hope this will improve. Plant growth has doubled in the past few days, but root growth is lagging. The brown easily cleans off when i shake the roots underwater.

I would clean that off, clean your system with h2o2 and make sure its steril before introducing the beanies. That way all problems are subsided and you can start a healing process.

 

[TruenoAE86coupe]

hi guys, seems like my battles continue. I have switch over the mr bonds suggested 5 gal recipe, so i hope this will improve. Plant growth has doubled in the past few days, but root growth is lagging. The brown easily cleans off when i shake the roots underwater.

My roots looked almost exactly like this tonight, 24 hours after adding the tea. I disinfected very thoroughly prior to adding the bennies, using 29% peroxide, scrubbed my tubs spotless and rinsed twice. So since i have 3 tubs, i did not add bennies to #1 added them to 2 and 3, then tonight after reading your issue and calimackdaddys answer, i cleaned the roots of plants in tub 3 but not 2. I will come back with results soon......

 

[CaliMackdaddy]

My roots looked almost exactly like this tonight, 24 hours after adding the tea. I disinfected very thoroughly prior to adding the bennies, using 29% peroxide, scrubbed my tubs spotless and rinsed twice. So since i have 3 tubs, i did not add bennies to #1 added them to 2 and 3, then tonight after reading your issue and calimackdaddys answer, i cleaned the roots of plants in tub 3 but not 2. I will come back with results soon......

Id make sure u add the tea after letting the water disipate any h2o2 left over in the rez, wait 10 hours or so after adding tea then put in nutrients and let the magic happen. Worked for me, should work for you aswell.

 

[TruenoAE86coupe]

Id make sure u add the tea after letting the water disipate any h2o2 left over in the rez, wait 10 hours or so after adding tea then put in nutrients and let the magic happen. Worked for me, should work for you aswell.

Probably a good idea, i did rinse the hell out of them, but i added the bennies within 20 minutes of adding the water..... not sure where to go with that, but i will keep with the way i am going, and decide day to day what to do, i am a believer, just have to get it to work in my system.

 

[Slivers]

You dont leave it sit for 24 hrs. You brew it with lots of air for 48hrs not 24. 24hrs is effective but not as effective as 48. I think you need to carefully re-read the instructions. Your mix is anaerobic (bad) if you left it sit for 24hrs with no air.

Not sure exactly what about my post suggest it was sitting without 2 air stones and a dedicated pump. But I'll go ahead and describe exactly what I've done so there is no more confusion.

Initially I took 2 hand fulls of the Forest and placed it inside a special bag I bought that restricts small objects from passing through the netting. I took 2 lengths 6ft of 1/4 inch tubing and placed those on the ends of 1 air pump that pumps at a rate of 7.8L/Min. Two small air stones sat inside the 5 gallon bucket filled with 3 gallons of water. Inside the water went the aqua shield, 30 Mil, 2 scoops of ZHO, and the net thing I placed the soil into. Those sat with AIR for 24 hours before I took 5 cups for 2 of my reservoirs. The teas effect on these two is already showing the tea is effective after 24 hours, however, reading what had been initially said I purposely left the majority of the batch to 'sit' or 'bubble' for another 24 hours. Making this a grand total of 48 hours. Tonight after that was done, I did complete res changes, introduced new water, with just PH adjustment and Tea. Everything is at 5.8 PH and the default tap water. Non-RO. The water is also cold, 68-70F.

I hope this sums up what I've done and I appreciate the advice given. I just want to make sure there is no assumptions.

- Slivers

 

[georgeforeman]

My roots looked almost exactly like this tonight, 24 hours after adding the tea. I disinfected very thoroughly prior to adding the bennies, using 29% peroxide, scrubbed my tubs spotless and rinsed twice. So since i have 3 tubs, i did not add bennies to #1 added them to 2 and 3, then tonight after reading your issue and calimackdaddys answer, i cleaned the roots of plants in tub 3 but not 2. I will come back with results soon......

my problem has nothing to do with h2o2. My roots seem to get worse after i add the tea. And the pH always plummets after i add tea.

 

[yaunch77]

I got hit with root rot and slime very early in my first grow. I tried completely cleaning the rez and plants with h202 and adding h202 daily and I got hit AGAIN. So I cleaned my rez again and brewed tea. Because I was in desperate straights, I only brewed my first batch 24 hours and added all 2.5 gallons to my 40 gallong rez. After the tea had time to miz in with all the rez water, I hand poured res water over all my plants. The very next day I had roots descending from the net pots that didn't get root rot as soon as they came out for the first time. I actually have hope for my plants for the first time thanks to the tea. Several of my plants have multiple long, furry roots hanging down.

I should mention that I was unable to obtain the exact ingredients listed here on short notice so I ended up using little wigglers EWC, Oregonism, and Medina Agricultural Molasses to make my tea. It seems to be highly effective so far.

 

[mr. green thumb 01]

And over at soilfoodweb.com there is always something more to be learned.

"Bacteria - add bacterial foods, such as simple sugars, simple proteins, simple carbohydrates. Molasses, fruit juice, fish emulsion and green plant material high in cellular cytoplasmic material feeds bacteria. The more kinds of sugars and simple substrates added, the greater the diversity of species of bacteria, and the more likely the full range of beneficials will be present."

Fungi - add fungal foods, such as complex sugars, amino sugars, complex proteins, soy bean meal, fish hydrolysate, fish oils, cellulose, lignin, cutins, humic acids, fulvic acids, wood, paper or cardboard. The more kinds of fungal foods that are present, the greater the diversity of fungal species will grow



So put diverse small amounts of food for the beenies will make them more diverse?

So would it be beneficial or detrimental to add small amounts of stuff like florablend, floralicious plus, sweeteners?

 

[CaliMackdaddy]

"Bacteria - add bacterial foods, such as simple sugars, simple proteins, simple carbohydrates. Molasses, fruit juice, fish emulsion and green plant material high in cellular cytoplasmic material feeds bacteria. The more kinds of sugars and simple substrates added, the greater the diversity of species of bacteria, and the more likely the full range of beneficials will be present."

Fungi - add fungal foods, such as complex sugars, amino sugars, complex proteins, soy bean meal, fish hydrolysate, fish oils, cellulose, lignin, cutins, humic acids, fulvic acids, wood, paper or cardboard. The more kinds of fungal foods that are present, the greater the diversity of fungal species will grow



So put diverse small amounts of food for the beenies will make them more diverse?

So would it be beneficial or detrimental to add small amounts of stuff like florablend, floralicious plus, sweeteners?

If i understand correctly its bad to add any organics to the tea, most sweeteners and bud hardeners contain sugars, that's why you add molasses to the tea... for the beanies to wake up and start multiplying. I simply add 30mL of Molasses to every 3 gallons of tea and it works for me.

 

[Slivers]

Right now I've used the tea as directed and so far haven't seen great results, or even anything that would lead me to believe it's getting better in the flowering area or the vegging area. Still seeing the rot in both places. Maybe this just isn't for aero. I'm still going to give it another shot(still let it run) to see if things improve, however I've switched my res out for my new cuttings and clones and have been using an H202 solution(as I use GH nutes) in one of the res'. Roots seemed to respond well after a h202 bath, root growth on smaller plants has been optimal, however the larger cuts seem to be having a harder time.

 

[TheNewGuyy]

Im making some tea for the first time in my NFT system. Hoping for the best. go tea, go roots, go plants.

 

[Heisenberg]

I have noticed medium sized black worms in some of my roots lately. It's puzzling because these are not fungus gnat larvae and I see no flying insects in my garden. When I look at the roots, most of the worms are already dead. Out of a dozen or so worms only 3 or 4 will be moving. I started squirting these directly with tea, but it didn't seem to kill them. Finally I sprinkled some mycogrow powder on the worms/roots directly, the next day all worms were dead. So if you have some stubborn worms in your bucket, remember it apparently takes more than just periodic tea treatments to kill them. Mosquito dunks would have probably done the trick, but no one sells them around here this time of year. I'm guessing the B thuringiensis does not fare well in the tea as it needs insect bodies to germinate. So once again, if you are using dunks in the tea, add them at the end of the brew, or directly to the res.

 

[Heisenberg]

So put diverse small amounts of food for the beenies will make them more diverse?

So would it be beneficial or detrimental to add small amounts of stuff like florablend, floralicious plus, sweeteners?

It's not something you have to worry about for fighting slime. The information is useful for targeting certain microbes, like in a case where you want to tailor the microbes to the geographical location of the strain. For our purposes, molasses works beautifully.

 

[CaliMackdaddy]

It's not something you have to worry about for fighting slime. The information is useful for targeting certain microbes, like in a case where you want to tailor the microbes to the geographical location of the strain. For our purposes, molasses works beautifully.

Molasses works awesome, cheap and effective, why pay extra for somthing that will do the exact same thing.

 

[tman420]

Has anybody used the tea to treat powder mold? What was the dose and and results ? Or does anyone know a good quick cure to the powder mold?

 

[mr. green thumb 01]

Molasses works awesome, cheap and effective, why pay extra for somthing that will do the exact same thing.

I just have the whole gh line of additives but I switched to BC and dont want to add the gh semi-organic formula in my res and was thinking I could use it in the tea but I dont want to mess it up.

Im a week into using the tea and its been working pretty good my transition tub isnt slimed but there is a black sort of semi slime looking substance on the roots at the water line but im thinking this is small dirt particles because I only filtered with a fine screen. I also had a sediment in my gallon jug but I just shook it up and applied it with full confidence. Then I tried to refilter the rest with a paper tower but it was taking forever and the paper towel kept getting clogged. So I just gave up and started a new brew.

Heisenberg you should write a book. Id buy it. Thank you for sharing this recipe and always helping others.