Nihilism, the consequence of Atheism

[abandonconflict]

The only thing I did, was to take the same premises you listed (close enough) and put them into a different order to arrive at a more positive and energizing conclusion.

 

[abandonconflict]

Thanks, Heis. I was really just jumping on Pad's exasperated bandwagon, venting and using hyperbole to make a point. I don't want anyone to die or suffer, even the fucktards. I just want them away from me. The very few of us that tap our potential achieve so much that it carries the rest of us along very nicely. It's amazing that humanity has such a range: top scientists, industrialists and artists that give us life-lifting values to the fat, ignorant family at Jewel that find it a challenge to even check out of line efficiently, to the constantly inebriated homeless begging for sustenance. They are all human and born with similar potential. I am most optimistic after spending a few days completely alone, but when I'm forced to interact with people in everyday America they can wear down that optimism, and my patience, very quickly.
The world is certainly becoming a better place with rapid progress on many important fronts, it's easier to see this by reading about it from afar than witnessing it first-hand when I need to run my errands

+rep for positivity

 

[Zaehet Strife]

+rep for positivity

+Rep to you for positivity Conflict

Just because there is no intrinsic meaning or purpose for existence, does not mean that we as individuals cannot make up our own meaning or purpose for our existence... but it is best to base meaning and purpose on the highest probability to truth (science) rather than fabricated fantasy (religion/spirituality)

If i must be categorized i should be referred to as a nihilist, but i prefer to be recognized as just Zaehet the honest one.

I would rather be hurt and told the truth, rather than comforted and lied to.

 

[abandonconflict]

+Rep to you for positivity Conflict

Just because there is no intrinsic meaning or purpose for existence, does not mean that we as individuals cannot make up our own meaning or purpose for our existence... but it is best to base meaning and purpose on the highest probability to truth (science) rather than fabricated fantasy (religion/spirituality)

If i must be categorized i should be referred to as a nihilist, but i prefer to be recognized as just Zaehet the honest one.

I would rather be hurt and told the truth, rather than comforted and lied to.

Then to be more blunt with you, Nihilism is about belief. Belief has no place in science.

That being said, I must concede atheism may also have more to do with belief than I had realized until about 10 seconds ago.

 

[Zaehet Strife]

I disagree with this, the more we figure out, the more there is to figure out. I don't think we'll ever reach a day where science finally ends and we've figured absolutely everything there is to know out.

I revoke that statement, and agree with you.

 

[olylifter420]

i think atheism is a belief system, atheists' just make it seem as if they have no belief system as to not associate to any form of religion which rely heavily on beliefs...

many on here have told me time and again that atheism is not a belief system, yet they all believe that anyone who believe in God is a fucktard... that goes to show the small closed minded types they are, not all, some...

Then to be more blunt with you, Nihilism is about belief. Belief has no place in science.

That being said, I must concede atheism may also have more to do with belief than I had realized until about 10 seconds ago.

 

[cannabineer]

i think atheism is a belief system, atheists' just make it seem as if they have no belief system as to not associate to any form of religion which rely heavily on beliefs...

many on here have told me time and again that atheism is not a belief system, yet they all believe that anyone who believe in God is a fucktard... that goes to show the small closed minded types they are, not all, some...

The way i see it, atheism is not a belief system. I don't even know if it qualifies as a belief. There are positivist schools of thought associated with atheism that do qualify as belief systems, like secular humanism or materialism. While these are atheist, it would be placing the cart before the horse to conclude that atheism is a belief system. It's like calling Miscellaneous a category ... it gets done for reasons of neatness but doesn't reflect the nature of the thing. Imo.

And I have never, ever, considered someone a dunce (I'd rather not use the vulgarism) for having religious belief. cn

<edit> I think it's fair to label atheism a belief, since it incorporates the positive and unprovable assertion that there is no Divine. It's why i consider myself an agnostic ... that is the true neutral category imo.

 

[olylifter420]

i like what you say bear... I just think if a large group of individuals have the same thoughts, then why would that not be a belief system? some christians do not associate with other christians, but does that mean christianity is not a belief system? just because there are varying degrees of beliefs or thoughts amongst atheists does not mean they can make it a non belief system... they believe in the same moral values that all other atheists believe in, just as some believers have varying degrees of beliefs about the same God...., but they still both believe in God as both atheists believe in the non belief in beliefs... makes sense?

The way i see it, atheism is not a belief system. I don't even know if it qualifies as a belief. There are positivist schools of thought associated with atheism that do qualify as belief systems, like secular humanism or materialism. While these are atheist, it would be placing the cart before the horse to conclude that atheism is a belief system. It's like calling Miscellaneous a category ... it gets done for reasons of neatness but doesn't reflect the nature of the thing. Imo.

And I have never, ever, considered someone a dunce (I'd rather not use the vulgarism) for having religious belief. cn

<edit> I think it's fair to label atheism a belief, since it incorporates the positive and unprovable assertion that there is no Divine. It's why i consider myself an agnostic ... that is the true neutral category imo.

 

[abandonconflict]

Well, the burden of proof is certainly on the believers, not the heretics. Furthermore, the vast majority of scientists will attest that belief in a diety conflicts with methodological naturalism.

Now this part is only my opinion, if you can't fathom morality free of a god's eye view, you have no moral compass. By that I mean, you are only living morally because of a threat of hell or a promise of heaven, not because you actually have morals.

I am an atheist BECAUSE I do not believe, therefore yes, atheism is somewhat about belief.

 

[cannabineer]

i like what you say bear... I just think if a large group of individuals have the same thoughts, then why would that not be a belief system? some christians do not associate with other christians, but does that mean christianity is not a belief system? just because there are varying degrees of beliefs or thoughts amongst atheists does not mean they can make it a non belief system... they believe in the same moral values that all other atheists believe in, just as some believers have varying degrees of beliefs about the same God...., but they still both believe in God as both atheists believe in the non belief in beliefs... makes sense?

I don't think atheists do have a uniformity of thought. Religions all have central doctrines by which both insiders and outsiders can recognize their allegiance. Atheism doesn't have a central doctrine, just a belief that there is no engaged divine. It's a bit like asking the name of the road where the map shows no line.

I remember a friend's wedding. It was interfaith ... a Jew wed a Catholic. There was question as to which side of the room to seat me. I admitted to agnosticism. The perplexed usher then asked me "Okay, but are you not-Jewish or not-Catholic?"
Sometimes our need to categorize leads to nonsense. I fear this happens a lot when those of faith contemplate atheists. What characterizes atheists is a not-thing, not an actual thing, in my humble onion. cn

 

[Heisenberg]

As put here recently, atheism is a belief in the same sense that off is a tv channel.

Knowing someone is atheist tells you nothing more about them. I could list dozens of atheists whom I thoroughly disagree with on their life's philosophy. A friend of mine believes the universe was built by aliens from a different, older universe. Technically he is an atheist, yet my beliefs have nothing in common with his. The only common thread is the non-belief in a deity. All atheists have a non-belief in common, the rest is incidental. Atheism is a consequence of a belief system, not a property of it. Any one belief system that leads to atheism can be completely different, even conflict, with other belief systems that do the same.

I do concede your point that many atheists are biased, but that is a reflection of humanism and not atheism. As you know, I call out bias when I see it, no matter the source.

 

[cannabineer]

Well, the burden of proof is certainly on the believers, not the heretics. Furthermore, the vast majority of scientists will attest that belief in a diety conflicts with methodological naturalism.

Now this part is only my opinion, if you can't fathom morality free of a god's eye view, you have no moral compass. By that I mean, you are only living morally because of a threat of hell or a promise of heaven, not because you actually have morals.

I am an atheist BECAUSE I do not believe, therefore yes, atheism is somewhat about belief.

Belief in a deity does not inherently conflict with the pursuit of natural philosophy. It only does so when the associated religion exceeds its authority and demands that believers accept the physically impossible as part of the package deal. Imo this characterizes fundamentalists but not the more tolerant believers. cn

 

[olylifter420]

i see you alls point.... i think given enough time, atheism will become a belief system, just as religion became a belief system through time... i just wonder why so many hate on believers and so many hate on atheists...

good discussion guys, im going to hit the sack... pretty tired and need some rest...

hopefully we will all get along some day and have a great big toke to celebrate the unity

As put here recently, atheism is a belief in the same sense that off is a tv channel.

Knowing someone is atheist tells you nothing more about them. I could list dozens of atheists whom I thoroughly disagree with on their life's philosophy. A friend of mine believes the universe was built by aliens from a different, older universe. Technically he is an atheist, yet my beliefs have nothing in common with his. The only common thread is the non-belief in a deity. All atheists have a non-belief in common, the rest is incidental. Atheism is a consequence of a belief system, not a property of it. Any one belief system that leads to atheism can be completely different, even conflict, with other belief systems that do the same.

I do concede your point that many atheists are biased, but that is a reflection of humanism and not atheism. As you know, I call out bias when I see it, no matter the source.

I don't think atheists do have a uniformity of thought. Religions all have central doctrines by which both insiders and outsiders can recognize their allegiance. Atheism doesn't have a central doctrine, just a belief that there is no engaged divine. It's a bit like asking the name of the road where the map shows no line.

I remember a friend's wedding. It was interfaith ... a Jew wed a Catholic. There was question as to which side of the room to seat me. I admitted to agnosticism. The perplexed usher then asked me "Okay, but are you not-Jewish or not-Catholic?"
Sometimes our need to categorize leads to nonsense. I fear this happens a lot when those of faith contemplate atheists. What characterizes atheists is a not-thing, not an actual thing, in my humble onion. cn

 

[Heisenberg]

Now this part is only my opinion, if you can't fathom morality free of a god's eye view, you have no moral compass. By that I mean, you are only living morally because of a threat of hell or a promise of heaven, not because you actually have morals.

Sometimes people just fool themselves that their morals come from god or the bible. If we examine them closer, we see that they come from within. I don't think many Christians want to murder someone but stop themselves for fear of hell. I am not saying you are wrong, I just think that the situation you describe is rare in comparison to those who simply haven't thought about it.

Unless most Christians are willing to kill their children when god commands, then their morals must come from some place else.

 

[abandonconflict]

Sometimes people just fool themselves that their morals come from god or the bible. If we examine them closer, we see that they come from within. I don't think many Christians want to murder someone but stop themselves for fear of hell. I am not saying you are wrong, I just think that the situation you describe is rare in comparison to those who simply haven't thought about it.

Unless most Christians are willing to kill their children when god commands, then their morals must come from some place else.

Good point, I usually say that as a counter to people who would say that I have no morals because I lack faith, but you counter brilliantly. +rep

Believers, take note, an atheist defended your moral footing from my jabs.

 

[olylifter420]

heis is a cool cat in my book man... we have had our share of diatribe, but all in all... great things to learn from...

 

[abandonconflict]

heis is a cool cat in my book man... we have had our share of diatribe, but all in all... great things to learn from...

yep, set me straight.

 

[DoctorSmoke]

morality, what is right and what is wrong is all a matter of prospective. i didnt read all 10 pages so ill prob saying something that someone else already said but anyway. is abortion good or bad? abortion on a fetus with a severe handicap that is genetic which will be passed on? forced sterilization? genocide? in all cases the answer can be yes and be moral (good) if its to better the entire race, anything less is selfish. i came up with the idea one night that i would commit suicide if it meant that others had to do it to, only if it meant to rid undesirables like stupid/ugly/sick ppl. i know i would rather have a better brain and good looks than what i got lol.