nuglets
New Member
that's definitely not the problem man. 72-75 at canopy level and 65 degree air being blown on them will have no negative effects at all. that canopy temp is perfect.
Grow Room Floorplans. Here to help.
- Thread starter phillipchristian
- Start date
nuglets
New Member
here a thread on it...(https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/525917-why-not-plant-straight-into.html)
Brother Numsi
Well-Known Member
Makes sense. My friend goes from small pot to 5 gal. I can transplant with a little effort
If MH produce little heat then I might do 2 in the veg room instead of FL9Additional ventilation??)...will that work OK or do I need less light and better spectrum? It sounds like I may need MH in the flowering room all the time...true or just at the beginning of flowering? May be repeating myself...getting tired. LOL
Thanks!
nuglets
New Member
i was saying that the new CMH (Ceramic Metal Hallide) bulbs produce very little heat. they only come in 400w and require magnetic ballasts to run. Great for veg or supplemental lighting. Kind of a pain cause they require magnetic ballasts. MH bulb make just as much heat as HPS ones. MH is also good for the first 2 weeks of flower. then you switch the bulbs out for HPS ones.Makes sense. My friend goes from small pot to 5 gal. I can transplant with a little effort
If MH produce little heat then I might do 2 in the veg room instead of FL9Additional ventilation??)...will that work OK or do I need less light and better spectrum? It sounds like I may need MH in the flowering room all the time...true or just at the beginning of flowering? May be repeating myself...getting tired. LOL
Thanks!
Brother Numsi
Well-Known Member
Do you know anything about this company...claims electronic ballast for 400w MH:
http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_viewitem.aspx?idproduct=CV1511&child=CV1515&gclid=CO2FkK3Z6q8CFQLktgodQgQwCg
Would you recommend 2 MH in the veg room? It sounds like 2 footers , maybe 3 footers in the veg room maz. Guess I'll need exhaust there, too. Are you saying I can't change bulbs in the flowering room using the dual 600w Lumatek...start with MH then switch to HPS...I got confused, sorry.
Thanks,
http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_viewitem.aspx?idproduct=CV1511&child=CV1515&gclid=CO2FkK3Z6q8CFQLktgodQgQwCg
Would you recommend 2 MH in the veg room? It sounds like 2 footers , maybe 3 footers in the veg room maz. Guess I'll need exhaust there, too. Are you saying I can't change bulbs in the flowering room using the dual 600w Lumatek...start with MH then switch to HPS...I got confused, sorry.
Thanks,
nuglets
New Member
not sure what you need a 400w ballast for. if you are looking for something for a CMH bulb then you need a magnetic ballast, not electronic.
i would recommend MH bulbs for the veg room but I think you'll be able to get my with just 1 of them. if your plants are 2-3; tall then they'll only need about 1-1.25 sq.ft. of space. all of that can easily fit under a 600w or even better 1000w MH light. totally up to you.
with those Lumatek ballasts you can run both MH and HPS bulbs. just go in and change the bulb after 2 weeks.
Hi, I just need some general help setting up a grow room..
What I will be having is 4 of DrGreenFingers 2x4 aeroponic sets in the beginning, so a total of 4x8 ft light coverage, and I'm wanting to look at different light setups, and also debating on what sort of light setup for my mother plant.
Really what I'm looking for is help with choosing lights for both the cloning setup.. as well as the mother room. In total there will be 128 clones and I was thinking of getting a T5 light from lowes with 8 4 foot long cfls (I believe) and then a T5 light as well for the mother.
I plan for this just to be temporary, until I have the funds to invest more into the grow room and design and thinking on later having 3 600 watt HPS with about 8 to 12 of the aeroponic setups...
Please tell me if I'm thinking incorrectly, or if I should change, but the 8 light T5 setup is going to have to suffice for the time being, until I do get the funds together though...
I'd like to say thanks for the help beforehand,
Brad
What I will be having is 4 of DrGreenFingers 2x4 aeroponic sets in the beginning, so a total of 4x8 ft light coverage, and I'm wanting to look at different light setups, and also debating on what sort of light setup for my mother plant.
Really what I'm looking for is help with choosing lights for both the cloning setup.. as well as the mother room. In total there will be 128 clones and I was thinking of getting a T5 light from lowes with 8 4 foot long cfls (I believe) and then a T5 light as well for the mother.
I plan for this just to be temporary, until I have the funds to invest more into the grow room and design and thinking on later having 3 600 watt HPS with about 8 to 12 of the aeroponic setups...
Please tell me if I'm thinking incorrectly, or if I should change, but the 8 light T5 setup is going to have to suffice for the time being, until I do get the funds together though...
I'd like to say thanks for the help beforehand,
Brad
hellraizer30
Rebel From The North
Skip geting the hid systems and look into a t5 light setups but not from lowes get the x8 bulb 4ft long setups from hydrofarms
or cap. There 400watts and kick ass as veg/cloning light systems
or cap. There 400watts and kick ass as veg/cloning light systems
Thats what I was thinking, was the t5 x8 4FT light.. but do you think a t5 x4 4ft light would suffice for the time being? Or do you think I should just go ahead and invest in the t5 x8 light? (I'm unsure of the differences of the prices right now..)
Now for the mother plant, do you think a T5 2 FT x4 light setup would be fine? I think I'll only have about 3 different mothers, also this raises a question, for 128 clones, how many mothers do you think I should have? Dependent on that answer, which sort of t5 light setup would you think would be the best setup (again going for cheaper, but want it to be efficient..)
Thanks hellraizer for your input already!
Brad
Now for the mother plant, do you think a T5 2 FT x4 light setup would be fine? I think I'll only have about 3 different mothers, also this raises a question, for 128 clones, how many mothers do you think I should have? Dependent on that answer, which sort of t5 light setup would you think would be the best setup (again going for cheaper, but want it to be efficient..)
Thanks hellraizer for your input already!
Brad
nuglets
New Member
to cover the 4 aeroponic systems you should get 2 600w lights or 2 1000w lights. 600w lights would be fine, 1000w lights would be optimal.
128 clones is a ton. i can fit about 30 comfortably in one 10x20 cut tray. so 4 trays would be 20x40 which is an 8 lamp T5. mix the spectum up on the bulbs too. 5 grow and 3 bloom bulbs. or 6 and 2. more balanced spectrum.
if you are just taking cuttings every 2 months or a perpetual with 64 a month you are gonna need 6 moms in my opinion. you could probably get away with 4 but that would be a lot of stress on them and you might now be getting the best cuttings after about 20-25. 6 moms at 2x2 for each one is a 6x4 space to cover. you could do it much more efficiently with MH lights. 2 400w MH lights would be idea. if power and money are an issue then you are gonna need 3 8 lamp T5 setups or 2 12 lamp setups. Quantum makes a 12 lamp setup.
Brother Numsi
Well-Known Member
Nug,
I guess this will come down to two things: whether or not my friend wants to use his house to do this and how much the electric bill will jump. I'm ready to do this and I can't at my house
It looks like 1 1,000 w MH in the veg room and 2 600w HPS in the flowering room. We haven't talked much about fans yet. I noticed there are two openings on the reflectors. (one on each side) Do you attach one 6" HO fan to both reflectors and pull the air thru and vent into the attic and another to vent the room? Same in the veg room? I know that if a ceiling fan runs 24/7 here it adds a bit over $7/mo to the electric bill. Can't wait to get thru this stuff and onto nutes.
Oh, this is a pretty basic primer on a grow room, but not badly done:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4odpIVLNro about 10 minutes
Full length version a bit over an hour:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dECnYjf5ABQ&feature=related
Thanks!
I guess this will come down to two things: whether or not my friend wants to use his house to do this and how much the electric bill will jump. I'm ready to do this and I can't at my house
It looks like 1 1,000 w MH in the veg room and 2 600w HPS in the flowering room. We haven't talked much about fans yet. I noticed there are two openings on the reflectors. (one on each side) Do you attach one 6" HO fan to both reflectors and pull the air thru and vent into the attic and another to vent the room? Same in the veg room? I know that if a ceiling fan runs 24/7 here it adds a bit over $7/mo to the electric bill. Can't wait to get thru this stuff and onto nutes.
Oh, this is a pretty basic primer on a grow room, but not badly done:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4odpIVLNro about 10 minutes
Full length version a bit over an hour:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dECnYjf5ABQ&feature=related
Thanks!
nuglets
New Member
hey bud, compared to all this nutes are gonna be easy and cheap. i've got a good formula for you that is fool proof.Nug,
I guess this will come down to two things: whether or not my friend wants to use his house to do this and how much the electric bill will jump. I'm ready to do this and I can't at my house
It looks like 1 1,000 w MH in the veg room and 2 600w HPS in the flowering room. We haven't talked much about fans yet. I noticed there are two openings on the reflectors. (one on each side) Do you attach one 6" HO fan to both reflectors and pull the air thru and vent into the attic and another to vent the room? Same in the veg room? I know that if a ceiling fan runs 24/7 here it adds a bit over $7/mo to the electric bill. Can't wait to get thru this stuff and onto nutes.
Oh, this is a pretty basic primer on a grow room, but not badly done:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4odpIVLNro
Thanks!
with the fans, you will need 1 for each room. you can use 1 for both 600w lights in your flower room. the 2 holes on each hood are to pull air in and exhaust it out. how are you setting up your air cooling? are you going to take air from outside of the room and cool the lights with it? or are you taking air from inside of the room and using it to cool the lights? their are advantages and disadvantages to both. let me know and i can better explain how to set it up.
Brother Numsi
Well-Known Member
Nug,
These "rooms" are unfinished large walk-in areas on either side of a bedroom over a garage. I just sent him an email to get the dimensions. I am also thinking of constructing "movable walls" using wood and reflective material so that the flowering area can be closed in, yet by having the walls movable, give us access to the plants. Still have to figure out the best way to protect the floor, but that should be easy enough.
As I see it the air would have to come from within the room...or the attic as to make an entire air loop...may be pretty warm up there to begin with except in the cooler months. I don't see how to bring it in from the bedroom other than put a hole in the wall.
Just checked out your journal...WOW what a great set up from the get-go!! I can't see doing anything like that unless they completely decriminalize it. I live in a more backward state
I'll be happy with a 6 plant rotation
Just as an aside my friend is measuring as we speak. He went over to another friend's yesterday and did some soldering on a board and sampled some bubble hash we made Thursday. This was his response, "[FONT=trebuchet ms,sans-serif]BTW I left with a small sample of the frozen hands product. Extremely potent...[/FONT]" LOL
Thanks!
These "rooms" are unfinished large walk-in areas on either side of a bedroom over a garage. I just sent him an email to get the dimensions. I am also thinking of constructing "movable walls" using wood and reflective material so that the flowering area can be closed in, yet by having the walls movable, give us access to the plants. Still have to figure out the best way to protect the floor, but that should be easy enough.
As I see it the air would have to come from within the room...or the attic as to make an entire air loop...may be pretty warm up there to begin with except in the cooler months. I don't see how to bring it in from the bedroom other than put a hole in the wall.
Just checked out your journal...WOW what a great set up from the get-go!! I can't see doing anything like that unless they completely decriminalize it. I live in a more backward state
I'll be happy with a 6 plant rotation
Just as an aside my friend is measuring as we speak. He went over to another friend's yesterday and did some soldering on a board and sampled some bubble hash we made Thursday. This was his response, "[FONT=trebuchet ms,sans-serif]BTW I left with a small sample of the frozen hands product. Extremely potent...[/FONT]" LOL
Thanks!
nuglets
New Member
i don't watch those videos anymore. they are pointless in my book. they have great beginner knowledge but a lot of the stuff their is really broad. it's like a 20 page cliff notes to the book atlas shrugged. i mean can you really summarize a 2000 page book in 20 pages?Nug,
I guess this will come down to two things: whether or not my friend wants to use his house to do this and how much the electric bill will jump. I'm ready to do this and I can't at my house
It looks like 1 1,000 w MH in the veg room and 2 600w HPS in the flowering room. We haven't talked much about fans yet. I noticed there are two openings on the reflectors. (one on each side) Do you attach one 6" HO fan to both reflectors and pull the air thru and vent into the attic and another to vent the room? Same in the veg room? I know that if a ceiling fan runs 24/7 here it adds a bit over $7/mo to the electric bill. Can't wait to get thru this stuff and onto nutes.
Oh, this is a pretty basic primer on a grow room, but not badly done:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4odpIVLNro about 10 minutes
Full length version a bit over an hour:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dECnYjf5ABQ&feature=related
Thanks!
figuring out what your electric bill is gonna be is really simple. most everything in your grow rooms will have a listed watts consumption. all you need to know is the watts of everything drawing power; the time that each piece of equipment will be running; and the per kilowatt hour charge from your electric company (it's on the electric bill). here's an example based on the national average of $0.16 per kilowatt hour.
1 1000w light running 24 hours a day is 720kWh per month
2 600w lights running 12 hours a day is 432kWh per month
1 CAN 6" HO fan uses 138w. So running 24 hours a day that is 100kWh per month
1 CAN 6" HO running 12 hours a day is 50kWh per month
so the total there is 1,302kWh a month. multiplied by $0.16 equals $208 a month. you will have other things like timers and stuff but they won't add much really. some of that time you will be running the T5's and not the 1000w so that will cut that consumption in half as the T5 uses 54w bulbs so 8 of them is 432w or 311kWh per month. so if you veg for 1 month under T5's and another month under MH then it will be about $50 cheaper on your bill for the month you run T5's.
if you add anything like motor loads (a/c units, dehumidifiers) then that will add to your bill sometimes significantly. they are hard to judge cause they aren't always running and when they are in standby mode or the condensor isn't working they really don't draw any power.
you can offset these costs by becomming more energy efficient. put the refrigerator on a timer to shut off at night and then come on for 10 minutes every few hours during the day. that's all you need. become vigilant at unplugging appliances and electronics you aren't using. turn computers off. put your hot water heater on a timer. shut off the a/c when you leave the house.
nuglets
New Member
if you are building rooms inside of rooms then you could pull the air from the larger room that you are building in and exhaust it to the attic. or you can pull it from inside of the grow rooms and exhaust it into the attic. i would pull the air from inside of the room. will actually save you a little money on equipment. in the veg room you leave one end of the light open and attach the other to the fan. exhaust the air into the attic. in the flower room you attach a carbon filter to one end of a hood with ducting (shortest distance possible to avoid cfm loss). then you connect the hoods and the fan with ducting. that way you are pulling air through the carbon filter and into your lights before exhausting it. this will help you avoid any odor creeping into the house. think about getting a filter sheet or one of those hep filter for the veg room light. always helps to have something so that dust and bugs don't get in your hoods. that way you won't have to clean them and the glass as often.
for the rooms just frame them out of1x2's or 2x4's. then use drywall or plywood so that you have a solid surface to hang things on. this will also help a ton with insulation and sound proofing. they sell rools of duct insulation wrap at all of the hardware stores. usually it's 4' wide and comes in 25', 50', 100' lengths. it's great insulation and reflective material for a grow.
for the floor i would just frame out a floating floor with 1x1's or 2x2's and then lay plywood on top of it. if you want you can cover the plywood with linoleum. not necessary but will help prevent any water damage from spills getting through.
Brother Numsi
Well-Known Member
Nug,
Too much work LOL. I was thinking 1x2 (2) 5 feet high frames and long enough to span 3 plants (2 rows of 3) and staple the reflective material to the frame for the long sides and do something similar (2) for the short sides.. The bottom of the frame would have "feet" so we can simply move the "walls" aside to get at the plants and provide an effective bounce back for light.
I just got back from another friend's (who I don't want to tell what I am doing) and he has 2 1,000w HPS and 2 600w MH over his 8 flowering plants. He also has a portable A/C unit, but no fan duct work on his lights...pretty damn hot in there and a high electric bill. He said he'd like to drop some big FL down amongst his plants.
He uses 3 T5 set ups in the veg room trying to harvest every 2-3 weeks. I don't want to do that much work...that's why I chose a 6 plant rotation with the fan system and one 1,000w MH only. I can add FL if needed.
I'll have to check his charge /KWh...a $200 increase in his bill would be quite noticeable!!
What do you think of something like this or do you have a better idea?
https://rasahydroponics.com/cloning-seed-starting/heat-mats/windowsill-heat-mat
Thanks!
nuglets
New Member
hey man, thanks for stopping by the journal. glad you liked it. actually, using chillers is way cool an much more efficient. especially in backward legal states. no in or out vents and less electrical draw. more up front costs though.
you might need to go a little taller with the framing. at 5' tall the glass on your hoods will be at 4'. then you have the floor and the pots which is another 18" then you need to keep your plants about 12" from the glass. that would only leave you about 18" to grow plants in flower. don't think you are going that route. lol
why not just put a door in the room? you can frame them out and just stick a cheap $30 door in. be a lot easier than having to move a whole wall all the time. plus what if you find you want to hang something on that wall?
unless your friends plants are MONSTERS he's just wasting light. so many guys think that more light is better, usually it is but at some point it actually just hurts your plants by creating too much heat and too many footcandles. 3200w for 8 plants is insane. even with big ass bushy 6' plants you can easily fit 4 under a 1000w light. i understand eveyone is chasing the perfect mix of spectrum and tons of light but it's just not worth it man. you will create so much heat that you won't be able to cool it efficiently. plus you'll end up frying your plants and getting shitty yields from the heat in the room.
not sure where you are doing this grow but a $200 increase on a residential utility bill really isn't that much. a lot of things can actually do that to your bill.
they make 10x20 heat mats. all of the hydro stores have them. 3x20 seems like a waste. you'd need 3 of them to cover a 10x20 propogation tray. i don't know.
Brother Numsi
Well-Known Member
Nug,
Yep he's insane and refuses to take advice. His potency is usually lower than expected, at least for my taste. The last two he grew were Critical+ and Kali Mist both of which were quite good! He's kinda like the Emperor's New Clothes LOL and yes, he's convinced more is better. He has a long string of failures like White Rhino, a strain of Northern Lights, NY Special, and Super Lemon Haze, Blueberry, and Tangerine Dream...all of which he refused to acknowledge as poor, yet his sales fell way off.
Maybe I don't understand the germination mat. I figured it was like a little heating pad for 6 seeds to germinate. I saw one that was 3"X17" that I thought would work. I thought his was about 6 inches square...I'll have to take a closer look.
Before I do anything I'll draw the set-up to see exactly what works. Both rooms have a full size door that enters from the bedroom. I figured when the veg light was on we could leave that door open...maybe the same with the flowering room so the draw would come from a larger open area. I'll take some pix this week and post them up.
I was also wondering about temperature control. Since I don't think there are A/C vents in those rooms I thought maybe a wall thermostat in the bedroom with the temp measuring device going thru the wall into the rooms. (requires 2) The electrician can rig something to start the fans based on temperature as well as a timer for the fans. Again, thinking without know LOL.
So I think we have the veg room figured out:
1,000w MH (Hortilux or equivalent?) with air-cooled reflector (carbon filter on open end of reflector) and magnetic ballast running 18/6 with 6" HO fan vented into the attic along with some sort of climate control and timer and maybe my movable wall contraption LOL..
Flowering room:
Lumatek dual electronic ballast with 2 air-cooled hoods and 2 400w MH for 2 more weeks (probably Hortilux) running 12/12, then switching to 2 600w HPS (Hortilux) with 6" HO fan sucking air from both reflectors...carbon filter on open end of one reflector...can those filters withstand the heat??? and venting into the attic. Reflective contraption to be used there, too.
Other fans to be used in both rooms for circulation and plant movement.
Is that it so far...except for fine tuning the climate control? My movable walls can't weigh more than a few pounds each and very easy to slide around. They may be 1X1's and the material stapled to the frame. For raising and lowering the lights I figured some sort of Yo-Yo system would work nicely or I can go a cheaper route.
Thanks!
Yep he's insane and refuses to take advice. His potency is usually lower than expected, at least for my taste. The last two he grew were Critical+ and Kali Mist both of which were quite good! He's kinda like the Emperor's New Clothes LOL and yes, he's convinced more is better. He has a long string of failures like White Rhino, a strain of Northern Lights, NY Special, and Super Lemon Haze, Blueberry, and Tangerine Dream...all of which he refused to acknowledge as poor, yet his sales fell way off.
Maybe I don't understand the germination mat. I figured it was like a little heating pad for 6 seeds to germinate. I saw one that was 3"X17" that I thought would work. I thought his was about 6 inches square...I'll have to take a closer look.
Before I do anything I'll draw the set-up to see exactly what works. Both rooms have a full size door that enters from the bedroom. I figured when the veg light was on we could leave that door open...maybe the same with the flowering room so the draw would come from a larger open area. I'll take some pix this week and post them up.
I was also wondering about temperature control. Since I don't think there are A/C vents in those rooms I thought maybe a wall thermostat in the bedroom with the temp measuring device going thru the wall into the rooms. (requires 2) The electrician can rig something to start the fans based on temperature as well as a timer for the fans. Again, thinking without know LOL.
So I think we have the veg room figured out:
1,000w MH (Hortilux or equivalent?) with air-cooled reflector (carbon filter on open end of reflector) and magnetic ballast running 18/6 with 6" HO fan vented into the attic along with some sort of climate control and timer and maybe my movable wall contraption LOL..
Flowering room:
Lumatek dual electronic ballast with 2 air-cooled hoods and 2 400w MH for 2 more weeks (probably Hortilux) running 12/12, then switching to 2 600w HPS (Hortilux) with 6" HO fan sucking air from both reflectors...carbon filter on open end of one reflector...can those filters withstand the heat??? and venting into the attic. Reflective contraption to be used there, too.
Other fans to be used in both rooms for circulation and plant movement.
Is that it so far...except for fine tuning the climate control? My movable walls can't weigh more than a few pounds each and very easy to slide around. They may be 1X1's and the material stapled to the frame. For raising and lowering the lights I figured some sort of Yo-Yo system would work nicely or I can go a cheaper route.
Thanks!
nuglets
New Member
you want something like one of these with a controller. if you just plug them in they get too hot. i keep mine set on 85. http://www.greners.com/i/seed-starting-and-cloning/heat-mats.html but now that you mention seed and no mother then i realize you don't need the heat mat or humidity dome. may be good to get if you plan on having a mother plant later on but seedlings don't need heat mats or humidity domes. can actually be detrimental for seedlings. domes and mats are for clones as they have no roots heat and you are trying to promote root development and keep the air humid so they can absorb water through their leaves. really kinda pointless with seeds. they have taproots and absorb moisture that way. also, since they have a root; keeping the soil/rockwool warm is pointless.
what you want is a thermostat controller. something like this http://www.greners.com/cap-tmp-dne-digital-cooling-thermostat.html use that for your intake fans and leave your exhaust fans running all the time. that will create negative pressure in the rooms which will bring cool air in through the crack and help avoid odor leaking out. for the fans that are hooked up to the lights you just put them on the same timer as the lights. there are more complicated setups that will control all your fans but it't not worth it in your case. they can get real expensive.
no carbon filter needed in the veg room. vegging plants aren't priducing resin like flowering plants and really don't produce any odor. get an electronic ballast. magentic ballast create a ton of problems. Lumatek, Quantum, etc... are all electronic ballasts. Magnetic ballasts can also only run 1 type of bulb; either HPS or MH. to save money just get the CAN 6" fan. no need for high output if you are only clearing 1 hood. more than enough CFM with just the regular output model.
flower room looks good. if your filter is on the end the only air passing through it will be air from the room which shouldn't be hotter than 80 degrees. i think the filters are rated for over 100 degrees. when you get the dual ballast make sure it is the dimmable version. you don't want to run 400w bulbs on 600w setting. the dimmable version will have a 400w setting. also, don't use the SL (Super Lumens) setting on those ballasts. will only cause your bulb to burn out quicker.
yo yo's or hooks and daisy chains work fine. remember when you are setting up your ducting to set your lights low in the room so you give yourself some extra ducting to work with when you are raising and lowering the lights.
Brother Numsi
Well-Known Member
Yeah, my bad. The 400w MH take magnetic ballasts...the 1,000w MH are OK with electronic ballasts...I'm learning. Yes it's would be the dual/dimmable Lumatek. The digital day/night thermostat is cool!
I don't see any intake fans on my list, just exhaust. Is that correct?
Thanks.
I don't see any intake fans on my list, just exhaust. Is that correct?
Thanks.