Accidentally crossed autoflowering with non-auto. whats gonna happen??

[Frankiesnote]

I need a little orientation on this

i grow outdoors and currently, among a few other strains, i have 4 auto ak47´s and they have been pollinated by some male non flowering wild sativas that i didn´t spot on time. The auto ak´s are about 3 days from harvest, and THEY HAVE SEEDS! . My question is, will these seeds come out autoflowering as well? Does anybody knows how this works more or less. I understand that there´s a percentage of the seeds that may come out autoflowering, but what am i looking at here?

very bumed out about the seeds, was looking foward to smoke those ak´s sinsemilla, but hoping for a brightside to this...

 

[polyarcturus]

some may or may not show the autoflower genetic trait. just depends you wont be able to tell till some start flowering in veg indoors or earlier than normal outdoors

id say about 50/50 chance on all the seeds lol

there is a bright side, you got plenty of seeds to play with, might have some good things come from them

 

[Scyntra]

to simply answer your question... no, your seeds will not be autoflowering...autoflower gene is a recessive trait...
auto x photo = photo (with auto gene)...
photo(with auto gene) x photo(with auto gene) = some autos (50%-perfect world)
those auto x those auto= % go up, and you keep on crossing the autos one day they will be 100% auto...

 

[Frankiesnote]

all righty thanks guys for the info, just harvested today!
i'll be keeping the seeds, might as well plant them and start the quest for auto's.
maybe by the 3rd harvest they'll be 100% auto's?

 

[OGEvilgenius]

to simply answer your question... no, your seeds will not be autoflowering...autoflower gene is a recessive trait...
auto x photo = photo (with auto gene)...
photo(with auto gene) x photo(with auto gene) = some autos (50%-perfect world)
those auto x those auto= % go up, and you keep on crossing the autos one day they will be 100% auto...

He really won't know until he grows them out. Those plants could have the recessive gene.

 

[OGEvilgenius]

all righty thanks guys for the info, just harvested today!
i'll be keeping the seeds, might as well plant them and start the quest for auto's.
maybe by the 3rd harvest they'll be 100% auto's?View attachment 2197415

Even if the male has recessive autoflowering traits it will take more than 3 generations to get them 100% automatic. Check out Mendelian squares (just google it) and you'll get an idea of what you are dealing with.

 

[Scyntra]

He really won't know until he grows them out. Those plants could have the recessive gene.

the autoflower gene IS a recessive gene...if you find a auto dominate gene your a millionaire! any seed bank would give you crazy $ for it...

 

[Scyntra]

how do they get auto genes then ?

wow I should not even answer this but... natural wild autoflowering plants breed over several generations to photo plants ect ect... even the wild auto plants gene is not dominate that's why breeders have to go through several generations before they get autoflowers as we know them...

 

[Jogro]

I need a little orientation on this

i grow outdoors and currently, among a few other strains, i have 4 auto ak47´s and they have been pollinated by some male non flowering wild sativas that i didn´t spot on time. The auto ak´s are about 3 days from harvest, and THEY HAVE SEEDS! . My question is, will these seeds come out autoflowering as well? Does anybody knows how this works more or less. I understand that there´s a percentage of the seeds that may come out autoflowering, but what am i looking at here?

very bumed out about the seeds, was looking foward to smoke those ak´s sinsemilla, but hoping for a brightside to this...

To expand on what was already said:

-NONE of your seeds "should" be autoflowering.

The autoflowering trait is genetically recessive. So if you cross a regular photoperiod plant with an autoflower, you would expect NONE of the seeds from that cross (the "F1 offspring") to be autoflowering

-Now if you crossed two of the F1 plants, you'd expect about 1/4 of THEIR offspring (the F2 offspring) to be autoflowering. You could then cross any two autoflowering plants to expect 100% autoflowering F3 plants.

Two other important points:

-Personally, I wouldn't try to perpetuate a line that got accidentally cross-pollinated by wild hemp plants. While its fine to plant the seeds for fun or experimentation, or just to toss them outside hoping for some random stash, I wouldn't try to do any serious breeding with them. If you have ANY other source of good seeds for planting, I'd use those preferentially.

-Silver lining? Well, a few seeds in your herb DO NOT in any way ruin it.

Yes, stuff with seeds will be a bit less desirable for commercial sale, and yes, you'll end up with slightly lower yield than seedless, and yes, you'll have to pick out a few seeds prior to smoking. But the quality of the herb you have with the seeds should be nearly as good, if not absolutely indistinguishable, from the same stuff grown seedlessly. So don't worry about this.

 

[Jogro]

the autoflower gene IS a recessive gene...if you find a auto dominate gene your a millionaire! any seed bank would give you crazy $ for it...

To be clear here, I believe there is more than one type of autoflower gene.

The most common one. . .the one from the original Lowryder strain. . .is recessive.

I've never heard of a dominant one, but I don't think its impossible.

In any case, since any breeder can generate a true-breeding autoflower line in just two generations (see above), there wouldn't be all that much advantage to a genetically dominant autoflower gene, especially now that there is such a wide variety of autoflowering hybrids available.

I could imagine some uses for something like that in certain kinds of breeding or in certain breeding projects, but I don't think it would really let you do anything you couldn't do with the recessive gene and a little more work.

 

[Jogro]

how do they get auto genes then ?

Ruderalis species cannabis plants are naturally autoflowering.

Modern autoflower plants are all hybrids of more conventional indica/sativa "medical" plants with dwarf ruderalis hemp plants.

With enough selective breeding its possible to isolate out the autoflower trait, yet retain most of the structure and potency of the "medical" strains.

 

[Jogro]

wow I should not even answer this but... natural wild autoflowering plants breed over several generations to photo plants ect ect... even the wild auto plants gene is not dominate that's why breeders have to go through several generations before they get autoflowers as we know them...

Well, this was true at one point.

Now, getting autoflower genes is trivially easy. . .any number of breeders offer these hybrids, and every seedbank carries them.

If you are a breeder who wants to create your own autoflower plant, there is no need for you to fly to Siberia to collect wild ruderalis seeds and start the hybridization from scratch You can start with any one of several dozen strains that have been crossed with more conventional strains for 5-30 generations, and already have decent potency, yield, etc.

 

[Jogro]

Even if the male has recessive autoflowering traits it will take more than 3 generations to get them 100% automatic. Check out Mendelian squares (just google it) and you'll get an idea of what you are dealing with.

Well, again, to be clear here, since the autoflowering gene is recessive, by definition any plant that is autoflowering carries ONLY autoflowering genes; two copies to be precise.

If you cross any autoflowering plant with another, all the offspring will be autoflowering.

If you cross an autoflowering plant with a NON autoflowering plant NONE of the offspring will be autoflowering; instead they'll all be hybrids with one autoflowering and one non-autoflowering genes.

If you cross an autoflowering plant with one of these hybrids, HALF the offspring will be autoflowering.

And finally, if you cross two of these hybrids with each other, one QUARTER of the offspring will be autoflowering. (And of that lot, half male and half female).


The point is, if you have any plant that's autoflowering, no matter what you cross it with, if you stick with it, at most you're only two generations away from at least SOME autoflowering offspring.
If you simply select out those autoflowering offspring and cross them with one another (or any other autoflowering plants), all subsequent offspring "should" be autoflowering too.

Now, for any number of reasons if you're doing a "serious" breeding project you may want/need to do selections over more generations than that, but you only "need" three generations to create 100% autoflowering offspring, even from only one autoflowering plant. At 75 days to go from seed to seed, so to speak, that means you can, if you're dilligent, go from one autoflowering seed to a 100% autoflowering line in roughly 8 months, if you needed to.

 

[OGEvilgenius]

the autoflower gene IS a recessive gene...if you find a auto dominate gene your a millionaire! any seed bank would give you crazy $ for it...

The plants that pollinated his could have the auto recessive gene. In which case the offspring would be partly autoflowering. Or it might not. He won't know until he grows them out. Also, since he probably was pollinated by more than one plant, it's going to be hard to predict the exact outcome as those plants are likely not all completely identical genetically.

 

[OGEvilgenius]

To expand on what was already said:

-NONE of your seeds "should" be autoflowering.

The autoflowering trait is genetically recessive. So if you cross a regular photoperiod plant with an autoflower, you would expect NONE of the seeds from that cross (the "F1 offspring") to be autoflowering

-Now if you crossed two of the F1 plants, you'd expect about 1/4 of THEIR offspring (the F2 offspring) to be autoflowering. You could then cross any two autoflowering plants to expect 100% autoflowering F3 plants.

Two other important points:

-Personally, I wouldn't try to perpetuate a line that got accidentally cross-pollinated by wild hemp plants. While its fine to plant the seeds for fun or experimentation, or just to toss them outside hoping for some random stash, I wouldn't try to do any serious breeding with them. If you have ANY other source of good seeds for planting, I'd use those preferentially.

-Silver lining? Well, a few seeds in your herb DO NOT in any way ruin it.

Yes, stuff with seeds will be a bit less desirable for commercial sale, and yes, you'll end up with slightly lower yield than seedless, and yes, you'll have to pick out a few seeds prior to smoking. But the quality of the herb you have with the seeds should be nearly as good, if not absolutely indistinguishable, from the same stuff grown seedlessly. So don't worry about this.

Actually yes, you are correct, it could be done in 3 generations. To get a good result, will take more time though unless you just hit the jackpot.

Also DJ Short I believe claims seeded weed is more potent... that guy has some odd practices though that I don't believe are backed up by much beyond his own experience (which, should not be discounted - obviously).

 

[OGEvilgenius]

To be clear here, I believe there is more than one type of autoflower gene.

The most common one. . .the one from the original Lowryder strain. . .is recessive.

I've never heard of a dominant one, but I don't think its impossible.

In any case, since any breeder can generate a true-breeding autoflower line in just two generations (see above), there wouldn't be all that much advantage to a genetically dominant autoflower gene, especially now that there is such a wide variety of autoflowering hybrids available.

I could imagine some uses for something like that in certain kinds of breeding or in certain breeding projects, but I don't think it would really let you do anything you couldn't do with the recessive gene and a little more work.

Having a dominant gene would make breeding a bit easier though in selection, especially in terms of potency. Easier to just toss something that's not quite as good as you'd like. Seems a lot of autos suffer from lower potency as a result of all the other traits inherited from the original ruderalis varieties, would be a lot easier to breed those traits out of a line if the gene was dominant.

 

[azryda420]

The plants that pollinated his could have the auto recessive gene. In which case the offspring would be partly autoflowering. Or it might not. He won't know until he grows them out. Also, since he probably was pollinated by more than one plant, it's going to be hard to predict the exact outcome as those plants are likely not all completely identical genetically.

Isn't wild hemp of Ruderalis heritage? So This sounds possible. But who knows.

 

[mayrequiempass]

I just got done with my first harvest a few weeks ago and have planted seeds from a NL female that was pollinated by a Pakistan Ryder hermie. Im about 4 weeks into veg and one of the NLxPR has already shown its pistils and its only about 6 inches tall. So the First generation from a Photo x Auto can be an Auto, I believe the ratio will be roughly 50/50, but im not sure.

 

[Frankiesnote]

This weed is CERTAINLY NOT RUINED!
i just took a bit from the deimous (a-Flowering indica) right of the hangers today, grinded it, took the seeds out and rolled.
Me and the wife call these "the joints that put out on your hand", cause literally 3 puffs and you forget you have it.
def recommend strain. Its been drying for 6 days now, and thats just one bit we smoke. Very piney citrusy taste, and super stoned'ness but withouth the body fatigue. This was only after half a joint between 2 ppl!

 

[Jogro]

Also DJ Short I believe claims seeded weed is more potent... that guy has some odd practices though that I don't believe are backed up by much beyond his own experience (which, should not be discounted - obviously).

I think he doesn't claim its more potent in absolute terms, just that the cannabinoid profiles are better in seeded herb. Here is the direct quote, its sort of an aside in a longer passage about the reasons why equatorial grown sativa plants are favored:

This is not so much in praise of the hermaphrodite as it is a suggestion in regard to the cannabinoid profile of seeded verses non-seeded herb. It has been my experience that the cannabinoid profile of seeded herb produces a wider range of effect than from non-seeded, or sinsimilla, herb. The equatorial environment also probably contributed to a wider range of cannabinoids. One of the aspects of the equatorial environment is its consistent day/night temperature range, there is little difference between day and night temps on the equator supposedly inspiring a wider cannabinoid profile. Couple this with the seeded cannabinoid profile and it becomes easy to understand the popularity of the equatorial produced sativa, despite its hermaphroditic problems. I am curios as to what future research in this capacity may provide.