Nonbelievers, how did you lose your religion?

Doer

Well-Known Member
But, that is basic survival. Just extend that from the top of the mountain to every day life. Don't we tell ourself things will get better? We have no sure knowlege, but we tell ourselves that for all the neccessary aspects of survival.

And since, at this point we can't follow the "why chain" to an ultmate reason, we are mostly, a lie alive. We mostly fool ourselves everyday with this set of memories, we call self. We live in expectation and regret almost totally, then we dream about it. We think others should understand us when we don't understand ourselves. Even a worm turns from pain. Is it really a wonder we lie to have some comfort?
 

Grojak

Well-Known Member
Never really had religion pushed on me, but it was about 12/13 when I became unafraid to question, by freshmen year of high school I started formulating my own opinions and arguing with school mates (made a few cry). I picked up philosophy books around this time also. By 10th grade I actually had a class where we debated this topic, I was the only one to speak up as a nonbeliever and had a very strong believer in tears, than one of her friends raised her hand and way like "I fully agree with what he is saying" my first victory!!!

I'm not out to change peoples minds, thats never been my thing, I just want people to open their minds and question, that is the problem with these religions, they make people afraid to question or have a bullshit answer for things they can't explain.... "faith" you just have to have faith.... Faith has never paid my bills or saved me from getting my heart broken by a women or.... well you get the idea...
 

Grojak

Well-Known Member
I went back and skimmed over some posts here and it's just ridiculous some of the agreements.


For those who "know there is a god because you have faith" and go to church every sunday or Saturday or twice a week. (i omit reading the bible here because there are some funny ass stories in there) I get it if you're a recovering alcoholic who lost everything or an exconvict or just a really weak minded person, religion gives you something to believe it a set of rules to follow, but those rules in modern day are just called morals, the 10 commandments are just shit you shouldn't do in a civilized society, bot because you're going to go up to heaven and enjoy being dead, absurd!!!

Speaking of heaven and hell and god and all, what is the point? Your life on earth is no different if you believe or not and if you think it's all for the afterlife, you're already dead.

I don't believe in religion, I say fuck god strike me down now :) still typing strange.... I do good because it makes me feel good, I used to litter, than I moved away from Kansas didn't wanna dirty up something pretty. I stop and help broke down cars, I help old ladies cross the street or offer to help load their groceries if I see them in a parking lot with a lot of stuff, that's just being me, I don't need no stinking religion
 

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
But, that is basic survival. Just extend that from the top of the mountain to every day life. Don't we tell ourself things will get better? We have no sure knowlege, but we tell ourselves that for all the neccessary aspects of survival.

And since, at this point we can't follow the "why chain" to an ultmate reason, we are mostly, a lie alive. We mostly fool ourselves everyday with this set of memories, we can self. We live in expectation and regret almost totally, then we dream about it. We think others should understand us when we don't understand ourselves. Even a worm turns from pain. Is it really a wonder we lie to have some comfort?
There comes a time... for everyone, to sit down and assess what is there and what is not there.

It's hard, this life... this existence. So many things to think, so many ways to be...which one to choose?

Most i understand, want the easiest, the fastest way, they way with the least amount of pain to deal with.

When you lie, you loose a piece of yourself...only you know when you lie, and even if you hide from the truth, it is always there staring you in the face constantly reminding you, that you do not know. It is easy to hide from this, so easy to turn away, to push it away or to pretend.


I've found out that there are two types of people in the world.
Those who value and want the truth...
Those who value only their own truth (which is not the truth, it is far from it)

What is fear, where does it come from? I have pondered this thought for countless hours. I have come up with an idea that makes sense once you put the pieces together.

As i have told you all before, i understand that i don't really know anything, i merely foster ideas, nothing more.. nothing less. If anyone here wants me to go into more detail about the origins of fear, i have no problem writing down my thoughts and ideas about the subject.

I think fear comes from ignorance, fear comes from "not knowing" If not knowing is where fear comes from... it would seem natural that the scariest thing for any human to endure is uncertainty.

The people who value the truth are on a never ending journey, continuously searching. Only with courage can they get closer to the truth about how the universe works, the closer we get the more avenues of knowledge seem to materialize before us. We have gotten past the fear of not knowing, we understand that most likely we will die without ever having our most desirable questions answered... but we don't let this discourage us, it empowers us, our drive to continue this never ending search increases ten fold.

There are people in this world who allow the fear, the not knowing take hold of they way they think... take hold of who they are. Living a life based off of fear to feel fearless. Giving themselves answers to questions that do not have answers. Within these contemporary lies based off of fear they can find a sense of importance in this existence, a sense of purpose, a sense of comfort of knowing in the absence of it. Nothing we can do or say can help the fear filled, they all must help themselves, they must make the decision to not be scared anymore, to discontinue giving themselves truths in the absence of them.

The quote above (Doer's) reminds me of a story i made up in my mind once as i was rolling this fear/not knowing thought inside of my head years ago.

Imagine you are on your death bed, you are going to die. You're daughter or son at the tender age of 6 come up to you and ask you, "Daddy... what is going to happen when you die?" You have a choice to make now. Depending on the decision you will make, it will either come from fear, or love. The fear based reply; "Sweety, i am going to a better place...please don't worry"

At this reply, hopefully you have the ability to understand that what you just said... was a lie. Although this lie may help ease the pain or suffering of the one you love the most, with your last dieing breath you have lied to the most precious being in existence all for an insignificantly small amount of false comfort.

The love based reply; "Sweety, i don't know... nobody knows. But if there is anything i want to share with you before i close my eyes forever... is that its ok to not know honey, it's ok."

At this reply, you understand that what you have said is the truth. Even though you know it wont give your offspring a sense of comfort, you know that you have been honest with the one being in this existence that is the most important to you... and that i think will mean the most, not only to you but to your offspring.

If there is one thing i would want to share with everyone based on the experiences i have been through in my life, it is this one thing.

"Honesty is the key to happiness"

"I Base the meaning and purpose of my existence on honesty with myself". -Zs
 

rpgdude

Member
I find that most people just "believe" without really knowing any thing about their religion's foundations or tenants. I was a christen for over 25 years more if you count my childhood. I have preached many times and led many people to the faith. I studied the Greek, Aramaic, and Hebrew meanings. I once read the NT 7 times in a month and the hole Bible in 6 months. I'm telling you it does not work and contradicts itself from the start. This is what I learned about faith. Faith is believing even when all evidence is contrary, Faith is believing in that witch has no real world substance to back it up only stories "It never happens to you only other people". Faith is believing in books written mostly by crooks or fanatic's who starve themselves into visions caused by chemical reactions in the brain due to malnutrition and shock, These books teach kidnapping, rape, pillaging, child rape and the murder of men, woman and children even infants. Now lets get real and look at what "God" most people claim to believe in. Judaism=God commanded, No mercy on their enemy's, kill them all, even the pets and livestock, they burned hole city's to the ground and killed every one except the female virgins those they "saved for themselves" but If a man had sex with his mother and law, he, his wife and mother and law all must die by burning. Christen=2000 years taking people's land by ANY means necessary including germ warfare. They Gave Indians smallpox and withheld the cure, Why? Gods will. Burning and drowning "witch's" was common, death proved your innocents. The catholic church was responsible for a 1000 years of racking, burning, disemboweling, etc.. They fed people to dogs for not accepting Christmas. Islam=Ethnic cleaning's, little girls have there genitals sewn shut, woman are barely considered human, they blow themselves up and murder the innocent... I don't care what people believe until it teaches them to kill me or harm the innocent. These religions teach bigotry in all its forms, sex, color, age, and sexual orientation. Bigotry breeds hate and all the rest fallows. I no longer fallow that God because he says he loves the child but stands by wile they are abused. You can't love someone and watch as they suffer in agony when you can stop it. So it's ether bull shit or God is a lire and a cruel bastard. If you are going to believe in a God find one that loves peace, teaches acceptances of others and equality. Stay away from books that have influenced thousands of years of bigotry and war. They are dangerous because they change people. At the very least know what you claim to believe in. I know its a wall of text but that's what you get from an X hardcore believer/preacher and I do love a good argument as long as people are attacking the topic and not the person.
 

Chief Walkin Eagle

Well-Known Member
You sure pull this honesty card out a lot Z. Many people have more than enough evidence to prove god to themselves, be it through teachings, research or experiences (no need to remind me of your stance on experiences). Also, Im sorry to say, but there are people who have a tiny bit of knowledge about god. Its pure ignorance to think that no religion or spiritualists know nothing about god. I think you are basically saying "If science doesnt know, how the fuck do you know? You guys a liars".
 

Hepheastus420

Well-Known Member
You sure pull this honesty card out a lot Z. Many people have more than enough evidence to prove god to themselves, be it through teachings, research or experiences (no need to remind me of your stance on experiences). Also, Im sorry to say, but there are people who have a tiny bit of knowledge about god. Its pure ignorance to think that no religion or spiritualists know nothing about god. I think you are basically saying "If science doesnt know, how the fuck do you know? You guys a liars".
I think he's saying he doesn't know. Which is being honest.

If you have your experience with a higher being or have some knowledge that strife doesn't have, that's fine. But strife isn't gonna lie and say he truly believes in god because you say YOU have proof. That's just my take on what he was saying.
 

Chief Walkin Eagle

Well-Known Member
I think he's saying he doesn't know. Which is being honest.

If you have your experience with a higher being or have some knowledge that strife doesn't have, that's fine. But strife isn't gonna lie and say he truly believes in god because you say YOU have proof. That's just my take on what he was saying.
You are missing the point. Strife is being honest saying that he doesnt know. But the message Im getting from him is "I dont know... But they say they know, how could they possibly know when I dont even know? They must be liars"
Im not trying to pull him away from the dark side =p
 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
You are missing the point. Strife is being honest saying that he doesnt know. But the message Im getting from him is "I dont know... But they say they know, how could they possibly know when I dont even know? They must be liars"
Im not trying to pull him away from the dark side =p
Hes saying, the things they pretend to know are impossible to know, and they have failed to prove otherwise in his eyes. He is simply saying his standard for proof is more rigorous than people who claim to have these answers. As far as he can tell, they are simply lying to themselves, and unable to demonstrate otherwise. He has been very clear that he is totally willing to change his view in light of convincing information.
 

Chief Walkin Eagle

Well-Known Member
Hes saying, the things they pretend to know are impossible to know, and they have failed to prove otherwise in his eyes. He is simply saying his standard for proof is more rigorous than people who claim to have these answers. As far as he can tell, they are simply lying to themselves, and unable to demonstrate otherwise. He has been very clear that he is totally willing to change his view in light of convincing information.
I understand what he is saying. He says people are lying to themselves because what they consider proof, he considers to be a misunderstanding or a false meaning to an experience.
 

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
Hes saying, the things they pretend to know are impossible to know, and they have failed to prove otherwise in his eyes. He is simply saying his standard for proof is more rigorous than people who claim to have these answers. As far as he can tell, they are simply lying to themselves, and unable to demonstrate otherwise. He has been very clear that he is totally willing to change his view in light of convincing information.
Damn Heis... just damn, spot on bro.

All people should understand the standards of proof are universal, not subjective to each individual.
You are absolutely right Pad.
 
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