Thought crimes?

[Samwell Seed Well]

what about conspiracy?? all it takes for a conspiracy charge is 2 or more people getting together and talking about a crime.. no actions needed to get a conspiracy charge..

thread worthy , oh why oh why couldnt DD run his thread ideas by RB

 

[ChesusRice]

I got an Idea

Why punish anyone for terrorism

Those are "thought" crimes as well

The 9/11 plotters shouldn't be prosecuted for any terrorist actions

 

[Samwell Seed Well]

It really comes down to how "crime" is defined. In my opinion a crime involves a victim that was demonstrably harmed, not the act of violating some arbitrary whim of law makers. Many laws criminalize things when there is no actual victim.

The act of legislatively making something prohibited that doesn't involve a real victim, is in the real crime. 'The government" IS an objectionable thought to anybody that embraces the ideas of freedom and non initiation of aggression.

great post, do you think that acting on impulsive urges that you know to be unlawful before committing them should make punishment more or less or equally severe? As unless the person commiting the crime is insane they will know this too . . . . . also does the pedophile knowingly break the law or give in to urges they know to be immoral or unlawful . . i see bigots and pedophiles in the same category of delusional rationalism, they use there delusion to rationalize making the wrong decision of sound mind!

you people and your delusions of grandeur, we are all the same . . . .silly rabbit tricks are for kids

Element	Usage
65%	Oxygen
18.6%	Carbon
9.7%	Hydrogen
3.2%	Nitrogen
1.8%	Calcium
1.0%	Phosphorus
0.4%	Potassium
0.2%	Sodium
0.2%	Chlorine
0.06%	Magnesium
0.04%	Sulfur
0.007%	Iron
0.0002%	Iodine

 

[ChesusRice]

great post, do you think that acting on impulsive urges that you know to be unlawful before committing them should make punishment more or less or equally severe? As unless the person commiting the crime is insane they will know this too . . . . . also does the pedophile knowingly break the law or give in to urges they know to be immoral or unlawful . . i see bigots and pedophiles in the same category of delusional rationalism, they use there delusion to rationalize making the wrong decision of sound mind!

No really why should the rape of a child be more punishable than just rape

You know we can do this all day

 

[Samwell Seed Well]

No really why should the rape of a child be more punishable than just rape

You know we can do this all day

why does the rape of a child effect a person more than the rape of an adult . . . . . . our justice system is made to balance morale and laws same with the common sense to how severe a crime is . . .does every murder involve the rape of the dead body . . nope but it sure warrants a longer sentence for the hope or rehabilitation as it is obvious that there is something going on , as that is not normal criminal behavior, i think you would have to have a acute knowledge of what "man" can do to each other just based on will, before you can answer that with truth .. . .


our justice system is a direct reflection of how we deal with those who we deem criminal, what we as a society approve to be OK and not OK . .. . and ya context of a crime is important,

no matter what, knowing why and accepting is is true forgiveness, if we as a country didnt belive that rehabilitation was possible then we would just kill everyone , as it makes no sense to

let people out who are just going to do it over and over, and well now we have to many jails to fit the wide range of crimes that can land you in the same place as the hard core criminals . . .and now we have a society that cant recognize what a crime is . . .. . BS they blurred the lines so much, we have people who are so confused that they are afraid of thought policing

and think that it already happens

 

[UncleBuck]

Why should I get a longer sentence for dragging a black guy behind my truck than if I was dragging a white guy? Same crime...same intent to kill.

intent and motive.

your intent was to kill, what was your motive? did you do it because he banged your wife, or were you singling the person out for their skin color/ethnicity/sexual orientation etc?

hell, your intent might have been to kill someone based on skin color/ethnicity/sexual orientation.

i think we all can agree that it is more heinouos to commit a crime for that simple reason rather than the person actually crossing you or causing you harm.

 

[Samwell Seed Well]

intent and motive.

your intent was to kill, what was your motive? did you do it because he banged your wife, or were you singling the person out for their skin color/ethnicity/sexual orientation etc?

hell, your intent might have been to kill someone based on skin color/ethnicity/sexual orientation.

i think we all can agree that it is more heinouos to commit a crime for that simple reason rather than the person actually crossing you or causing you harm.

how is this not completely common sense, that reasons for doing something will, and should, effect the punishment and severity . . .. where do you people grow up, excuse city?

 

[ChesusRice]

how is this not completely common sense, that reasons for doing something will, and should, effect the punishment and severity . . .. where do you people grow up, excuse city?

See the whole premise of those against hate crime laws is

that they "bigots and racists" will be the ones punished more severly for their actions


And I see nothing wrong in that

In fact i think it is noble

You can think anything you want

its your actions that are repulsive

Got that DD et al

 

[UncleBuck]

the caveat being that you should have to prove beyond all reasonable doubt that the intent/motive was racially/otherwise based in hatred.

i mean, there is every reason to believe that zimm had something against blacks that did not act white enough, and although that may have played some role in his crime, his intent/motive was to detain a thief primarily. his biases may have fed that, but they were not the main motivator. thus no hate crime.

but yeah, this is so fucking true what dukechesus said.

See the whole premise of those against hate crime laws is

that they "bigots and racists" will be the ones punished more severly for their actions

 

[Rob Roy]

wow all you guys are afraid you will get extra time for lymching a black guy

what it seems like

fact is

blacks can be prosecuted for hate crimes as well

but your all worried about what the law may do to you becuase you burned a cross wore a hood and hung up a black dude in a tree

That sounds an awful lot like you are declaring people that disagree with you to be racist. Is that what your meaning is?

I think you have left the intellectual debate playing field and entered into the emotional ad hominem locker room.

 

[ChesusRice]

That sounds an awful lot like you are declaring people that disagree with you to be racist. Is that what your meaning is?

I think you have left the intellectual debate playing field and entered into the emotional ad hominem locker room.

Not even close.

 

[Rob Roy]

I got an Idea

Why punish anyone for terrorism

Those are "thought" crimes as well

The 9/11 plotters shouldn't be prosecuted for any terrorist actions

The thought of terrorism might be disturbing. The ACT of terrorism ending in bloodshed renders a victim.

Are you saying that 'thoughts" are criminal and punishable acts? How would you determine which thoughts are criminal?

Would you jail somebody for thinking of having sex with a person that doesn't want to have sex with them?

 

[ChesusRice]

The thought of terrorism might be disturbing. The ACT of terrorism ending in bloodshed renders a victim.

Are you saying that 'thoughts" are criminal and punishable acts? How would you determine which thoughts are criminal?

Would you jail somebody for thinking of having sex with a person that doesn't want to have sex with them?

no but
I would jail a person who acted on those thoughts
just as i would punish a person more severly for acting on thoughts of killing someone just for their skin tone

If you dont like the thought of being punished more severly for hurting someone due to your racism
then dont commit any hate crimes
You act like you are a victim

 

[Samwell Seed Well]

victim of his thoughts, lol

and the known ramification for acting inappropriately are not nearly as important to him as validation for his racist tendencies, guess your post back on the last page is right

 

[Rob Roy]

victim of his thoughts, lol

and the known ramification for acting inappropriately are not nearly as important to him as validation for his racist tendencies, guess your post back on the last page is right

I don't believe we've interacted much here, so I'll say hello and include that we seem to disagree.

First off isn't a racist a person that wants extra privileges or circumstances provided to somebody based on their skin tone or ethnicity? It would seem that I am for EQUAL rights regardless of skin tone. Specifically where does your charge of racism arise from ?

 

[Rob Roy]

no but
I would jail a person who acted on those thoughts
just as i would punish a person more severly for acting on thoughts of killing someone just for their skin tone

If you dont like the thought of being punished more severly for hurting someone due to your racism
then dont commit any hate crimes
You act like you are a victim

I act like I'm a victim? How so?

 

[Samwell Seed Well]

im not going to play into these games with you

we dont have to accept each other but we can at least be honest with each other, i think your a racist, devils advocate is not an excuse , with one hand you condemn peoples/societies non acceptance of bigotry, and with the other you try to condone bigots rights to not accept another for whatever reason, their are many, devaluing or demeaning or praying on people do to ignorance or invalidation of another basic civil rights is wrong .



just because you call it by a different name, like hate crime, changes and means nothing other than you have committed a crime against humanity, figure it out, your oh the poor bigots and their inability to control there actions due to there raging ignorance is BS

 

[ChesusRice]

I don't believe we've interacted much here, so I'll say hello and include that we seem to disagree.

First off isn't a racist a person that wants extra privileges or circumstances provided to somebody based on their skin tone or ethnicity? It would seem that I am for EQUAL rights regardless of skin tone. Specifically where does your charge of racism arise from ?

What extra rights do victims of hate crimes have

Name them

 

[Rob Roy]

What extra rights do victims of hate crimes have

Name them

Okay.

Example - A non gay person is randomly assaulted by somebody and suffers a theft of $100 and a beating. A gay person is assaulted by a homophobe and suffers a theft of $100 and a beating.

You would assign greater restitution to the gay person for their loss, than the non gay person. In that regard they have "extra rights" .

 

[ChesusRice]

Okay.

Example - A non gay person is randomly assaulted by somebody and suffers a theft of $100 and a beating. A gay person is assaulted by a homophobe and suffers a theft of $100 and a beating.

You would assign greater restitution to the gay person for their loss, than the non gay person. In that regard they have "extra rights" .

WRONG

Both are examples of theft

But if the gay person was a victim simply becuase he is gay
then it is a hate crime
Restitution to the victim is the same, but the punishment for the perpetrator is increased
But you already know that

Now back to the question i have posed

What extra rights do victims of Hate crimes have?