Obama gave us commerce by gun to your head; enslavement to health care sector

J

jumpin' buffalo

Member
canndo said:
Gun to my head commerce is a very sick person going to the hospital and getting treated for free, and then the cost being extended to me in higher taxes and higher premiums for which I get Nothing. I'd much rather everyone be forced to pay something so maybe I won't have to pay for other people's health care.


So long as we all just suck up what we are told about the mean nasty health care plan that "makes" us do stuff we dont want to do, then we won't ever really understand what is going on around us.
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Irrelevant. The reasons for the health insurance mandate nor the results change anything. It's still commerce by gun to your head and enslavement to the health care sector. Secondly, there were other better, and cheaper approches to fixing the health care mess in the United States then the road Obama went down.
 
NLXSK1

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
jumpin' buffalo said:
Irrelevant. The reasons for the health insurance mandate nor the results change anything. It's still commerce by gun to your head and enslavement to the health care sector. Secondly, there were other better, and cheaper approches to fixing the health care mess in the United States then the road Obama went down.
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Obama didnt want to fix the health care sector. He wanted a single payer government run system. What the legislation does is speed us along that path by increasing costs and decreasing profit to the insurance companies.
 
mr2shim

mr2shim

Well-Known Member
NLXSK1,..

https://www.rollitup.org/politics/563148-obama-gave-us-commerce-gun-10.html#post8005064

"We were promised. The president said we would keep unemployment under 8.5 percent (if the stimulus passed)." Since then, it has become frequent conservative talking point -- cited repeatedly by Fox's Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck and others. So we thought it was worth revisiting.

First, we could find no instance of anyone in the administration directly making such a public pledge. Rather, it comes via a Jan. 9, 2009, report called "The Job Impact of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Plan" from Christina Romer, chairwoman of the president's Council of Economic Advisers, and Jared Bernstein, the vice president's top economic adviser.
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Their report projected that the stimulus plan proposed by Obama would create 3 million to 4 million jobs by the end of 2010. The report also included a chart predicting unemployment rates with and without the stimulus. Without the stimulus (the baseline), unemployment was projected to hit about 8.5 percent in 2009 and then continue rising to a peak of about 9 percent in 2010. With the stimulus, they predicted the unemployment rate would peak at just under 8 percent in 2009.

As Will rightly noted, it went higher. The unemployment rate peaked around 10 percent in late 2009 and is now around 9.5 percent. And Will is also right that the cost of the stimulus rose dramatically.

But what we saw from the administration in January 2009 was a projection, not a promise. And it was a projection that came with heavy disclaimers.
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"It should be understood that all of the estimates presented in this memo are subject to significant margins of error," the report states. "There is the more fundamental uncertainty that comes with any estimate of the effects of a program. Our estimates of economic relationships and rules of thumb are derived from historical experience and so will not apply exactly in any given episode. Furthermore, the uncertainty is surely higher than normal now because the current recession is unusual both in its fundamental causes and its severity."
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NLXSK1 said:
SO, Obama... Who said we wouldnt have unemployment over 8% if we spent a trillion dollars (it has not been BELOW 8% since then), the guy that said he would cut the deficit in half by the end of his first term (the deficit has never been higher), the guy that said that American family's would already be paying thousands less in health care costs (which did not happen), the guy that said it would cost 900 billion dollars (while the CBO actually admits the number is over 2.7 trillion), the guy that double counts medicare cuts and transfers to Obamacare, the guy that tells the CBO to plug these numbers in and give him an answer not tied to reality....

That guy said it will be cheaper?? Whew.... I was worried there for a moment..
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All I'm asking for is a simple. "I was wrong."
 
mr2shim

mr2shim

Well-Known Member
NLXSK1 said:
Ok, you were wrong :P
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I see when you're faced with facts that disprove you, you turn into an 8 year old. I figured you would respond with that. All you had to do was say that you were wrong and are quoting misinformation. Any adult should be able to do that, or at least I would hope.
 
Red1966

Red1966

Well-Known Member
racerboy71 said:
if you think you're enslaved to obamacare, you should see how it feels to be enslaved to hospitals and dr's after having a surgery or spending any length of time in a one with out having insurance..
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What are you talking about? You can leave the hospital when you're ready. They send the bills and you ignore them. They send nasty letters, and you ignore them. They get partially reimbursed under the Hill-Barton Act. They send new bills and you ignore them. They can't make you pay, they can't make you do shit. How is that slavery?
 
mr2shim

mr2shim

Well-Known Member
Red1966 said:
What are you talking about? You can leave the hospital when you're ready. They send the bills and you ignore them. They send nasty letters, and you ignore them. They get partially reimbursed under the Hill-Barton Act. They send new bills and you ignore them. They can't make you pay, they can't make you do shit. How is that slavery?
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Fox News said it's slavery, so it is.
 
NLXSK1

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
mr2shim said:
Fox News said it's slavery, so it is.
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You ask someone to be serious about the conversation and then you throw shit like this out... You just proved Althor's point in less than a page of posts.

How do you expect anyone to take you seriously?
 
Red1966

Red1966

Well-Known Member
ChesusRice said:
Free healthcare?
Lol
My wife has insurance thru her company. Our plan is one of those gold plated ones. Even the out of pocket expenses are covered by our FSA. I jsut got a pair of 700 dollar no line progressive bifocals with polarized transitions lens
FOR NOTHING

She works for a fortune 500 health insurance company
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Really? Many out of pocket expenses are no longer covered under your FSA, thanks to Obamacare. Any money left at the end of the year is confiscated, and also taxed as income! If you bought the glasses with the FSA, you paid the full amount for the glasses.
 
mr2shim

mr2shim

Well-Known Member
NLXSK1 said:
You ask someone to be serious about the conversation and then you throw shit like this out... You just proved Althor's point in less than a page of posts.

How do you expect anyone to take you seriously?
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Same can be said for you with post #108. I ask you a serious question you reply with an 8 year old's response.
 
C

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
Red1966 said:
Really? Many out of pocket expenses are no longer covered under your FSA, thanks to Obamacare. Any money left at the end of the year is confiscated, and also taxed as income! If you bought the glasses with the FSA, you paid the full amount for the glasses.
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Everything medical dental vision and child care is handled under the FSA
And we dont leave nothing in it at the end of the year

And no we didnt pay shit

her company puts the money in the FSA
 
NLXSK1

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
ChesusRice said:
Everything medical dental vision and child care is handled under the FSA
And we dont leave nothing in it at the end of the year

And no we didnt pay shit

her company puts the money in the FSA
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8. Flexible Spending Account Cap – aka“Special Needs Kids Tax”($13 bil/Jan 2013): Imposes cap of $2500 (Indexed to inflation after 2013) on FSAs (now unlimited). There is one group of FSA owners for whom this new cap will be particularly cruel and onerous: parents of special needs children. There are thousands of families with special needs children in the United States, and many of them use FSAs to pay for special needs education. Tuition rates at one leading school that teaches special needs children in Washington, D.C. (National Child Research Center) can easily exceed $14,000 per year. Under tax rules, FSA dollars can be used to pay for this type of special needs education.
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The company might put the money in but it is *HER* money. I am sure the company calculates it as part of her benefits package.

And your unlimited FSA is going to get capped under Obamanation...
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
NLXSK1 said:
I point out 6 things he has supposedly said and you guys dispute one of them and the issue is that *I* am a liar???

Seriously, I am LOL'ing right now at you...
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you've been caught in several lies in this thread alone.

so yes, you are a liar.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Red1966 said:
What are you talking about? You can leave the hospital when you're ready. They send the bills and you ignore them. They send nasty letters, and you ignore them. They get partially reimbursed under the Hill-Barton Act. They send new bills and you ignore them. They can't make you pay, they can't make you do shit. How is that slavery?
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stormfront guy advocates freeloading. priceless.
 
Carne Seca

Carne Seca

Well-Known Member
Once again GOP hysterical half-truths and outright lies. First of all, it's not a tax hike. It's shrinking a tax shelter. FSA's provided by almost all employers already have a cap. It's anywhere from 2,500 to 5,000 dollars depending on the company. The company I work for is 2,500. Tuition may be 14,000 dollars but the FSA is only going to cover what the cap allows. The biggest hit for special needs will be in education. Let's not forget that 32 million people will be covered by insurance by 2016 and a lot of those will be special needs children. No more bans on pre-existing conditions.
 
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