Over thinking Organics.

[HTP]

So I was trying to over think [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Organics today. However I have no idea why I wanted to do this. But I did it any way.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Lets say, a breeder does hydro. Makes their seeds, bags them sells them. Lets say maybe they where not organic. I guess in theory all hydro is not organic but lets not go there for right now. Lets say, maybe they ran a few different times to get enough seeds? By theory - the seed is not organic. Maybe the seed is now more suited to be used hydro and no dirt or outdoor?
Any thoughts?[/FONT]

 

[Slipon]

might be on to sumthing ?

dunno how much of a different it do make, but if I try to remember back to my early grow years, we grew outdoors with Bag seed`s or seed`s we got from friends and other growers, as we did`t had any RIU or internet for that matter (late 80ish/early 90ish) or could buy good seed`s

I bet it was mostly/only Stavia strains and with out knowing I bet the THC was about 5-10% depending on conditions aso.

but I do know that the longer you grew the same strain in the same conditions the better it got, and we where allways looking for growers who had seed`s that had been grown for years in the same similar conditions ..

to day some old outdoor growers I know even mix/breed bought seeds with some of there old (+25 years) Strains that is used to be grown in Denmark (Scandinavia) in a cold climate to get there "own" strains ..

 

[HTP]

This idea and over thinking came to me after reading a lot of information about organic gardening / and labeling. There is a large fight about labeling food organic, but not using organic seeds. So this is where I started from....

 

[ExtremeMetal43]

I know what your saying I actually like the fact im using supersoil with tga seeds bc the soil method is at least the same and I feel theyd do better than if i used a different method. Not to assume but a lot of breeders tout theyre stuff as being grown organically.

 

[PaulN'Chuck]

Ok I may be getting side tracked but I have an argument/Discussion Id like to bring up. Again, forgive me for going off topic if I stray to far. I am growing PlushBerry at the moment in straight ffof soil. Now I have ALWAYS used this method to begin my seedlings. Ive battled in threads and comments left and right and Im constantly arguing that the ffof is perfectly fine and has never been to hot or burned my seedlings. This is of course, just my honest opinion. With all of this said, I have 9 Plush in 20 oz cups and half are looking burnt or deficient in some form or fashion. Im thinking its to hot for them .... Now we know Sub breeds in his super soil witch isnt to far off from the ffof as far as NPK values go, right. We also know that he only fills his pots up half way-ish and fills the rest with Roots. Now I dont know the NPK of roots but Im sure its just cut of some sort. So I say all of that to say this, " Do you think that Subs organically bred seeds are less prepared to handle stronger or 'Hotter" soils?"

 

[HTP]

Well like humans plants adapt to their envo. prehaps - if slowly breed to take hotter soils then yes. As south american plants, do diffrently then asian plants.

 

[foreverflyhi]

I don't think your over thinking it.
Living sustainable or organic, we have to think about things like this.
Organics or biology is soo deep in ways our minds can never comprehend.
I heave theories that if a plant is brought up with chemicals, then it will be passed on to future genetics. We can see this happening to corn grown by Monsanto, it's genetics are spread through pollen, and all the organic farming happening around that monsanto farm will get pollinated by the chemical grown gmo corn. The organic grown corn is now tainted with pollen from Monsanto corn..
Sadly it happens to people too. For example, diabetes caused by genetically modified fruit corn syrup injected food, Unfurtantley this can be passed hereditary.
I know what I just said is controversial, but like I said in the beginning, biology is deep, everything is connected one way or another.

 

[OGEvilgenius]

This idea and over thinking came to me after reading a lot of information about organic gardening / and labeling. There is a large fight about labeling food organic, but not using organic seeds. So this is where I started from....

I think that fight has more to do with GMOs.

 

[OGEvilgenius]

I don't think your over thinking it.
Living sustainable or organic, we have to think about things like this.
Organics or biology is soo deep in ways our minds can never comprehend.
I heave theories that if a plant is brought up with chemicals, then it will be passed on to future genetics. We can see this happening to corn grown by Monsanto, it's genetics are spread through pollen and all the organic farming happening around that farm will get pollinated by the chemical grown gmo corn.
Sadly it happens to people too. For example, diabetes caused by genetically modified fruit corn syrup injected food, Unfurtantley this can be passed hereditary.
I know what I just said is controversial, but like I said in the beginning, biology is deep, everything is connected one way or another.

The two things you just attempted to compare are not even close to the same.

 

[foreverflyhi]

The two things you just attempted to compare are not even close to the same.

Well thanks for putting down What I said, dick..

Instead of giving a closed minded response, why don't you explain why?

Re read what I said at the end, " everything is connected one way or another"

 

[HTP]

I do agree with the Monsanto issue. That was in the back of my mind over this topic. However Monsanto crops are really an invasive species. They are taking over organic farms and then sueing farmers for not paying the rights on their "life" that is a bull shit patents if you ask me. Once again, even though it is a GMO crop, farmers are claiming it is organic because of how they grow it. While most people do not even come close to thinking a gmo crop is organic.

 

[foreverflyhi]

I think about things like this all the time.
Ive taken a bunch of classes and read all sorts of literature on topics like these.
It really is scary knowing huge corporations are just smashing on smaller scale or organic farms.
Im glad I've taken the organic route, it really is a last front we have against greedy corporations.
Plus when the revolution comes, we organic ganja farmers already have a head start on growing fresh organic food to feed our communities.

 

[HTP]

Sorry but if the revolution comes down too that, I am moving far away - taking over some federal land. I shall not be sharing my food with the whole community.
Call me greedy, but a small group of people will take care of you. A community will steal from you.

 

[foreverflyhi]

Lol
communities = family, friends, small group of people.
You won't feed them?
If your community is stealing from you then your in the wrong community homie

 

[OGEvilgenius]

Well thanks for putting down What I said, dick..

Instead of giving a closed minded response, why don't you explain why?

Re read what I said at the end, " everything is connected one way or another"

You were comparing feeding plants with chemical nutrients and GMOs. They are drastically different things. Your idea (regarding chemicals vs organic), might have some weight, but there is no scientific support for it at this time. There was recently a study that indicated plant DNA can be passed along to the things consuming it, but not into their genome. Bacteria however can absorb foreign DNA into their genome (it's one of their great evolutionary advantages) so that's a real concern with GMO food. Can you imagine if your internal flora started to produce pesticide instead of what they normally do for your body?

I wasn't intending to be a dick, sorry.

 

[OGEvilgenius]

I think about things like this all the time.
Ive taken a bunch of classes and read all sorts of literature on topics like these.
It really is scary knowing huge corporations are just smashing on smaller scale or organic farms.
Im glad I've taken the organic route, it really is a last front we have against greedy corporations.
Plus when the revolution comes, we organic ganja farmers already have a head start on growing fresh organic food to feed our communities.

It's actually worse than you might think. I know about how companies like Monsanto flex their weight by pollinating the competition. And through other more typical means. But it's worse because all the small mom and pop farms - most of them sit on land worth millions and millions of dollars, even though they don't make a tonne of money themselves. Most kids have been raised to believe farming isn't a good lifestyle. Too much hard work, too little reward. However even if these kids wanted to inherit the family farm, they won't be able to thanks to the estate tax. So they will be forced to either a) come up with millions to pay the tax bill or b) be forced to sell to major corporations, and they will be under pressure from the IRS to do so making their bargaining position weaker.

 

[somebody1701]

I don't think your over thinking it.
Living sustainable or organic, we have to think about things like this.
Organics or biology is soo deep in ways our minds can never comprehend.
I heave theories that if a plant is brought up with chemicals, then it will be passed on to future genetics. We can see this happening to corn grown by Monsanto, it's genetics are spread through pollen, and all the organic farming happening around that monsanto farm will get pollinated by the chemical grown gmo corn. The organic grown corn is now tainted with pollen from Monsanto corn..
Sadly it happens to people too. For example, diabetes caused by genetically modified fruit corn syrup injected food, Unfurtantley this can be passed hereditary.
I know what I just said is controversial, but like I said in the beginning, biology is deep, everything is connected one way or another.

This post is completely wrong and demonstrates zero understanding of genetics. I'm an organic grower, but let's not make things up to further bolster our decision. Unless you are causing mutations with your chemical fertilizers, there is no effect on the seeds. Furthermore, the statement that getting diabetes from genetically modified corn syrup will cause you to pass it on in your genes is completely bogus. You pass on the propensity to get diabetes which is triggered by consuming too much sugar and wearing out your pancreas, but your genes aren't different because you got diabetes.

I'm a big proponent of organics and I don't knowingly consume GMOs, but most of your post is just plain wrong factually. Now, if there was some GMO weed out there, then you could end up with pot contaminated by GMOs. Until it's federally legalized, I don't think we have to worry about GMO pot.

 

[HTP]

Yes, it is a fight with GMO however it still holds water. People are calling GMO plants, organic. We grow plants from seeds that where not grown organically. This debate is along the same thing as wrong labeling issues.

 

[foreverflyhi]

You were comparing feeding plants with chemical nutrients and GMOs. They are drastically different things. Your idea (regarding chemicals vs organic), might have some weight, but there is no scientific support for it at this time. There was recently a study that indicated plant DNA can be passed along to the things consuming it, but not into their genome. Bacteria however can absorb foreign DNA into their genome (it's one of their great evolutionary advantages) so that's a real concern with GMO food. Can you imagine if your internal flora started to produce pesticide instead of what they normally do for your body?

I wasn't intending to be a dick, sorry.

It's actually worse than you might think. I know about how companies like Monsanto flex their weight by pollinating the competition. And through other more typical means. But it's worse because all the small mom and pop farms - most of them sit on land worth millions and millions of dollars, even though they don't make a tonne of money themselves. Most kids have been raised to believe farming isn't a good lifestyle. Too much hard work, too little reward. However even if these kids wanted to inherit the family farm, they won't be able to thanks to the estate tax. So they will be forced to either a) come up with millions to pay the tax bill or b) be forced to sell to major corporations, and they will be under pressure from the IRS to do so making their bargaining position weaker.

Thanks for your reply. And sorry also.

This is a touchy subject that can cause heated arguments. But like I said in my previous statement "I have theories" just like anyone else.

And yeah I've heard and read some fucked up shit. It's sad that thousands of farmers in India are committing suicide because they simply can't compete with these corporations. Or organic farmers over here are getting sued. Or even how difficult it is too start up a community garden.

 

[foreverflyhi]

This post is completely wrong and demonstrates zero understanding of genetics. I'm an organic grower, but let's not make things up to further bolster our decision. Unless you are causing mutations with your chemical fertilizers, there is no effect on the seeds. Furthermore, the statement that getting diabetes from genetically modified corn syrup will cause you to pass it on in your genes is completely bogus. You pass on the propensity to get diabetes which is triggered by consuming too much sugar and wearing out your pancreas, but your genes aren't different because you got diabetes.

I'm a big proponent of organics and I don't knowingly consume GMOs, but most of your post is just plain wrong factually. Now, if there was some GMO weed out there, then you could end up with pot contaminated by GMOs. Until it's federally legalized, I don't think we have to worry about GMO pot.

First off I agree with what you said on let's not make up things. But don't get it twisted Im going to speak my mind and talk to other people on this subject, with or without data. Your statement seems like you just want me too shut up and not speak my mind. ( u probley work for Monsanto) we can't just stay silent and not speak of topics like this, because if we do then they(whoever runs this shit) win.

Ok so obviously this is the type of topic that needs accurate data for any statement to be true.

With that said, I was always under the assumption that one of the MAIN reasons why Monsanto is creating GMOs is too make the plants resistant to the chemicals they spray them with, or synthetic fertilizers they feed them with? (I will be gathering up data on this too prove my point)

How can't it not be passed on thru seed? ThIs is happening to organic farms all over the world!
Our food grown organically (or not)is still being poisoned one way or another by these bastard corporations.

And maybe my diabeties comment was a bit too far (I knew this when I said it ha) but in my eyes, I do see a connection. I don't need scientific data too see that in our generation diabeties or cancer is greater then ever in history. There is a connection between our food and environment to our health.