Here it comes - gun control!!!

[budlover13]

Let's pretend you're in a bank and every single person in the bank has a CCW permit.

A robber comes in with a gun, and pulls it only to have 10 bullets in his body, how many CCW holders miss? How many CCW holders have pass through shots? How many CCW holders panic and shoot blindly? Ever been in a live fire exercise? It's fucking nerve racking when you're trained for it, let alone when you take a 20 min online, or 2 hour minor safety course to get your CCW every 5 years.

I'm tickled you think everyone is so capable with a firearm, but they're not and most people would do more damage than good in a public setting with a gun.

Seems like a rather uninformed statement imo.

 

[Doer]

Let's pretend you're in a bank and every single person in the bank has a CCW permit.

A robber comes in with a gun, and pulls it only to have 10 bullets in his body, how many CCW holders miss? How many CCW holders have pass through shots? How many CCW holders panic and shoot blindly? Ever been in a live fire exercise? It's fucking nerve racking when you're trained for it, let alone when you take a 20 min online, or 2 hour minor safety course to get your CCW every 5 years.

I'm tickled you think everyone is so capable with a firearm, but they're not and most people would do more damage than good in a public setting with a gun.

If you are trained to take the shot.... sure the training is nerve wracking but what are you really talking about? So, give us some examples of a citizen with a CCW to go along with your bald, unvarnished fantasy about, "would do more damage than good in a public setting with a gun. "

I've never seen or heard of an armed citizen in a intervention resorting to spray and pray. It just doesn't happen. I have seen it, several times, the opposite. When the citizen decides to act, it is calm purposeful, and accurate. He has already thought it through, and even considering the flak from folks like you, still saves the day. Is the hero. Prove me wrong?

It is a myth to think that any of this happens. Lawful gun owners are very practiced. " how many CCW holders miss? How many CCW holders have pass through shots? How many CCW holders panic and shoot blindly?" Poppycock and rhetorical.

 

[budlover13]

If you are trained to take the shot.... sure the training is nerve wracking but what are you really talking about. So, give us some examples of a citizen with a CCW to go along with your bald, unvarnished fantasy about, "would do more damage than good in a public setting with a gun. "

I've never seen or heard of an armed citizen in a intervention resorting to spray and pray. It just doesn't happen. I have seen it, several time, the opposite. When the citizen decides to act, it is calm purposeful and deadly. He has already thought it through, knows what the story is from folks like you, but saves the day. Is the hero. Prove me wrong?

It is a myth to think that any of this happens. Lawful gun owners are very practiced. " how many CCW holders miss? How many CCW holders have pass through shots? How many CCW holders panic and shoot blindly?" Poppycock and rhetorical.

You mean calm and effective, something like this?

[video=youtube;E-FiVULU9TU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=E-FiVULU9TU[/video]

 

[Dr Kynes]

We base TONS of laws on "what if"....


I know people that can drive drunk just fine, but the government (and me too) says that driving drunk is more likely to cause death than driving sober. This is a prime example of 'what if' laws. You are forbidden from driving drunk based on a 'what if' situation. Your right to want to be drunk, is not on par with my right to not be killed.

it is already against the law to brandish a firearm when drunk. it's also against the law to stand in the street and drunkenly shoot into the air. its also agains the law to ride a horse drunk, or drive a buggy drunk, or drive cattle drunk... drunklenness makes even the most banal activity dangerous, and thus laws against drunkenness are not "what if" but "and these dumbasses keep drinking and _______ing, so fuck that!"

Why aren't people allowed to own bomb making equipment? That's another 'what if' law.

we ARE allowed to own "bomb making equipment", and i DO own "bomb making equipment" and so do you. thats part of the reason why BPOMB MAKING is so popular with terrorists, it's easy, effective, nearly impossible to prevent even in police states, and when you successfully touch one off you get a big score on your MDK stats for the back of your trading card. guns are used in crime in two basic ways,

1) impulsive shooting sprees with very little real planning
2) deliberate considered criminal action.

if impulsive nutbars do not use guns they will use machetes, molotov cocktails, motor vehicles, or any other weapon of convenience. the ones who plan out their atttacks will not be deterred no matter what impediments you place in their path. that so few american nutbars make home made explosives is testament not to the difficulty of manufacture and use, but the general indolence and laziness of the criminal mind.

Why can't people do 100mph on the highway? If you lose control at 100mph you're much more likely to harm yourself or others. Another 'what if' law....

because when you lose control of your car at 100mph it plows into something else, and that something else suaslly belongs to somebody else. on your own home built racetrack you can go as fast as you want. it's not a "what if" it's a "anyone who drives that fast WILL crash up cuz it always happens" anyone who owns a gun will NOT murder anyone, that RARELY happens. thats why you, and your lefty budddies never talk about the number of crimes committed per gun in america, you focus on the gross numbers of crimes, and the per capita crime totals, conveniently lumping in lawful shootings, suicides and accidents just to pad the numbers.

We have laws based on reasonable expectations of safety.

no, there is no such expectation.

CCW permit holders don't focus on what's behind them in a panic situation,

i assume you mean whats behind the target... and i always consider whats behind what i shoot, even when hunting. people who "panic" are not the people who should or would have a ccw. panic is unreasoning fear, resulting in a flight from danger or helpless indecision. and that can only harm the panicker, not the panickee.

and to my knowledge there are no rules governing what types of ammo and caliber should be used in CCW permit holders weapons.

why should there be? thats stupid.

What YOU are doing, is picking the most outlandish scenarios and somehow trying to compare them to events that have a good chance of happening. You 'feeling' safe, has no right to encroach on my actual safety.

and the same argument can be used to refute YOUR statements.

I'm not saying that you don't have the right to carry a firearm, but you should be at least as proficient as the police who also carry a firearm in public. You should be trained in threat detection, and appropriate reactions to different situations. Knowing which way to point the gun is simple, it's knowing how to not kill innocent people while attempting to defend yourself that's the problem.

i am MORE skilled than the cops, as demonstrated on numerous trips to the local firing ranges, cops dont "detect threats" they are either in uniform to deterr threats (but we cant all have a personal bodyguard) or they wind up getting surprised just like everybody else. only in hollywood does the off duty cop identify the bad guy and get the drop on him. thats just silly.

thats why off duty cops carry CONCEALED weapons. the presumption is that they are competent and thus require no additional permitting, and they conceal their arms because if they carry it openly the criminals know who to jack first while they have the element of surprise.

 

[Beefbisquit]

You mean calm and effective, something like this?

[video=youtube;E-FiVULU9TU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=E-FiVULU9TU[/video]

I love the part where the old guy shoots out of the door into the street. That's my favorite part.

 

[budlover13]

I love the part where the old guy shoots out of the door into the street. That's my favorite part.

But we can't judge him seeing as we have no idea what his background looked like through that doorway. Could've been an empty street or a busy one. Coulda been an empty parking lot or a crowded one. Coulda been returning fire from one of the suspects.

We don't know.

 

[Beefbisquit]

it is already against the law to brandish a firearm when drunk. it's also against the law to stand in the street and drunkenly shoot into the air. its also agains the law to ride a horse drunk, or drive a buggy drunk, or drive cattle drunk... drunklenness makes even the most banal activity dangerous, and thus laws against drunkenness are not "what if" but "and these dumbasses keep drinking and _______ing, so fuck that!"

There are limits on certain types of accelerants and things like blasting caps, etc. Sure improvised explosions can be created, that's not the point. If you're a machinist, you could make an automatic weapon from scratch.

we ARE allowed to own "bomb making equipment", and i DO own "bomb making equipment" and so do you. thats part of the reason why BPOMB MAKING is so popular with terrorists, it's easy, effective, nearly impossible to prevent even in police states, and when you successfully touch one off you get a big score on your MDK stats for the back of your trading card. guns are used in crime in two basic ways,

1) impulsive shooting sprees with very little real planning
2) deliberate considered criminal action.

if impulsive nutbars do not use guns they will use machetes, molotov cocktails, motor vehicles, or any other weapon of convenience.

Yes, psychopaths are universal; however giving them free and unfettered access to firearms is not universal.

the ones who plan out their atttacks will not be deterred no matter what impediments you place in their path. that so few american nutbars make home made explosives is testament not to the difficulty of manufacture and use, but the general indolence and laziness of the criminal mind.

Why would someone take the time to study bomb making, create the bomb using improvised components, and attempt to persuade people not to shoot him with threats of blowing them up when he could just go to the local gun store and buy a pistol?

machetes vs guns - who do you think would win in a fight? Unless you're t-1000 chasing people down and cutting them up one by one, it's so vastly easier to kill someone with a gun it's silly. Don't make stupid comparisons. You can run from a machete wielding maniac. If someone is shooting at you, most people aren't trained to serpentine...

because when you lose control of your car at 100mph it plows into something else, and that something else suaslly belongs to somebody else.

And you don't have the right to destroy someone else's property, or injure them, right? You're catching on!

on your own home built racetrack you can go as fast as you want.

And on a homebuilt gun range, shoot whatever you want! as long as your bullets aren't landing on my property or posing a risk to me I could care less.

it's not a "what if" it's a "anyone who drives that fast WILL crash up cuz it always happens"

Bullshit, that is ridiculous! I've driven 100mph more times than I can count, and never caused anyone harm. It doesn't mean that the rule doesn't make sense to have as a precaution.

anyone who owns a gun will NOT murder anyone, that RARELY happens. thats why you, and your lefty budddies never talk about the number of crimes committed per gun in america, you focus on the gross numbers of crimes, and the per capita crime totals, conveniently lumping in lawful shootings, suicides and accidents just to pad the numbers.

Not true. Are you having difficulty reading my writing? I'll try this again in CAPS so you can understand.

IN THE USA THERE ARE APPOX 9369 MURDERS from firearms per year.

no, there is no such expectation.

Every person has the right to life. By way of the constitution and the universal declaration of human rights.

i assume you mean whats behind the target... and i always consider whats behind what i shoot, even when hunting. people who "panic" are not the people who should or would have a ccw. panic is unreasoning fear, resulting in a flight from danger or helpless indecision. and that can only harm the panicker, not the panickee.
why should there be? thats stupid.

That assumption is correct. You might consider what's behind the target, I don't know you or what training you've had. What I do know is that in many states the training is lax and is only required every 5-6 years. That does not prepare you for a life or death situation in a public place.

i am MORE skilled than the cops, as demonstrated on numerous trips to the local firing ranges, cops dont "detect threats" they are either in uniform to deterr threats (but we cant all have a personal bodyguard) or they wind up getting surprised just like everybody else. only in hollywood does the off duty cop identify the bad guy and get the drop on him. thats just silly.

Good! You take your gun ownership seriously and practice the skills you would need to protect yourself. If what you're saying is true, I would be comfortable with having you around and holding a CCW permit. You cannot assure me that everyone takes the same precautions that you do. My argument is that every should HAVE TO take those precautions or not be allowed to carry a weapon in public.

And yes, the police certainly do use threat detection. Ever been though a shooting range with tagets that pop up? How do you know who to shoot and who not to shoot, your shortsightedness is mind boggling. Police don''t use threat detection... ROFL!! Yeah, they just shoot everyone in a tense situation and ask questions later... wait, no, that's the exact opposite of what they do.

thats why off duty cops carry CONCEALED weapons. the presumption is that they are competent and thus require no additional permitting, and they conceal their arms because if they carry it openly the criminals know who to jack first while they have the element of surprise.

The fact that they are law enforcement officers and use a firearm on a regular basis is enough to warrant the safe use of a firearm, even when not in uniform.

 

[budlover13]

[video=youtube;k_Yqk-6KKM8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_Yqk-6KKM8[/video]

Another example of an armed citizen "saving the day".

 

[st0wandgrow]

who says they are tragedies?
it's not a tragedy every time some dumbass dies, it happens thousands of times every day. if every death is a tragedy then you must be exhausted from all the weeping.
the simple and undeniable fact that EVERYBODY DIES is not a strawman, nor is the simple fact that SAFETY IS AN ILLUSION.

what IS a strawman is "the USA has by far the most guns, and by far the most firearm related murders of any developed country" i would argue that theres lotsa nations with more guns per capita than the US, for example, rhodesia, or somalia, or iraq, or afghanistan, or chechnya, and they use them to slaughter each other in a fashion that could only be described as Wholesale. here in the US we have Retail Slaughter, and the press are the ones doing the markup and reaping the profits.

i get it, you have all these raw feelings and they make you want to do something, ANYTHING so you wont have to cry your eyes out every time a baby bird falls from it's nest. but the simple solution is to MAN UP, not try and legislate safety rails on all sparrows nests and lifeguards at every birdbath.

you cannot protect everyone, and you especially cannot protect fools from themselves, lord knows we keep trying to protect you from the desirte to surrender al your rights because BHO says youll be safer that way.

if you really want to eliminate guns, eliminate YOUR guns, and then hang out a sign that reads: Gun Free Home, Passive Resistance Only. that way youll be the only one to suffer for your folly.

LMAO! Yep, that's the ticket. We all need to "MAN UP"!

Why don't you "MAN UP" and try defending yourself without the use of a weapon? Are you that much of a pussy that you need a gun?

C'mon, "MAN UP"!!

 

[budlover13]

LMAO! Yep, that's the ticket. We all need to "MAN UP"!

Why don't you "MAN UP" and try defending yourself without the use of a weapon? Are you that much of a pussy that you need a gun?

C'mon, "MAN UP"!!

i've always laughed at the whole "Man up!" thing. Manning up means being the one standing at the end imo.

 

[Doer]

But we can't judge him seeing as we have no idea what his background looked like through that doorway. Could've been an empty street or a busy one. Coulda been an empty parking lot or a crowded one. Coulda been returning fire from one of the suspects.

We don't know.

Why would he judge this as improper unless he is a torch carrier for the anti-gun nuts? So, the guy saves the day and doesn't have a Dirty Harry, hand cannon, just a little 9mm or 380 auto. He pops off another one when the guy turns back outside the door. He didn't chase him. He was not nerve wracked, and the denizens of the Cafe were already congratulating him.

Hey bisquiit, just say what you mean. The smmary innuendo is not necessary. You are not preaching to your choir, right now..the other control nuts. Your favorite part?? Weak and uninspired sarcasm, at best.

 

[desert dude]

There are limits on certain types of accelerants and things like blasting caps, etc. Sure improvised explosions can be created, that's not the point. If you're a machinist, you could make an automatic weapon from scratch.



Yes, psychopaths are universal; however giving them free and unfettered access to firearms is not universal.



Why would someone take the time to study bomb making, create the bomb using improvised components, and attempt to persuade people not to shoot him with threats of blowing them up when he could just go to the local gun store and buy a pistol?

machetes vs guns - who do you think would win in a fight? Unless you're t-1000 chasing people down and cutting them up one by one, it's so vastly easier to kill someone with a gun it's silly. Don't make stupid comparisons. You can run from a machete wielding maniac. If someone is shooting at you, most people aren't trained to serpentine...



And you don't have the right to destroy someone else's property, or injure them, right? You're catching on!



And on a homebuilt gun range, shoot whatever you want! as long as your bullets aren't landing on my property or posing a risk to me I could care less.



Bullshit, that is ridiculous! I've driven 100mph more times than I can count, and never caused anyone harm. It doesn't mean that the rule doesn't make sense to have as a precaution.



Not true. Are you having difficulty reading my writing? I'll try this again in CAPS so you can understand.

IN THE USA THERE ARE APPOX 9369 MURDERS from firearms per year.



Every person has the right to life. By way of the constitution and the universal declaration of human rights.




That assumption is correct. You might consider what's behind the target, I don't know you or what training you've had. What I do know is that in many states the training is lax and is only required every 5-6 years. That does not prepare you for a life or death situation in a public place.



Good! You take your gun ownership seriously and practice the skills you would need to protect yourself. If what you're saying is true, I would be comfortable with having you around and holding a CCW permit. You cannot assure me that everyone takes the same precautions that you do. My argument is that every should HAVE TO take those precautions or not be allowed to carry a weapon in public.




The fact that they are law enforcement officers and use a firearm on a regular basis is enough to warrant the safe use of a firearm, even when not in uniform.

You have obviously never seen an average cop shoot.

 

[budlover13]

Why would he judge this as improper unless he is a torch carrier for the anti-gun nuts? So, the guy saves the day and doesn't have a Dirty Harry, hand cannon, just a little 9mm or 380 auto. He pops another one when the guy turns back outside the door. He was not nerve wracked, and the denizens of the Cafe were already congratulating him.

Hey bisquiit, just say what you mean. The smmary innuendo is not necessary. You are not preaching to your choir, right now. The other control nuts. Your favorite part?? Weak and uninspired sarcasm, at best.

i wasn't judging it as improper. i was simply saying that we can't know if it was or not. i thought you were referring to his final shot out the door being reckless.

 

[Doer]

LMAO! Yep, that's the ticket. We all need to "MAN UP"!

Why don't you "MAN UP" and try defending yourself without the use of a weapon? Are you that much of a pussy that you need a gun?

C'mon, "MAN UP"!!

Hey pussy, do you know any dis-arm tactics against handgun, long gun? Are you trained in any defense arts? Of course not. Just a pussy.

 

[Beefbisquit]

You have obviously never seen an average cop shoot.

I'm friends with several cops actually, I go to my local range with them on an at least somewhat regular basis.

 

[budlover13]

Hey pussy, do you know any dis-arm tactics against handgun, long gun? Are you trained in any defense arts? Of course not. Just a pussy.

The SAFEST disarm tactic is to disable the attacker from a distance via a firearm.

 

[Doer]

i wasn't judging it as improper. i was simply saying that we can't know if it was or not. i thought you were referring to his final shot out the door being reckless.

Sorry, I was addressing the bisquit. He is the torch carrier for the anti-nuts.

 

[Beefbisquit]

I've still yet to hear a realistic argument against proper storage laws, e.g. trigger locks and gun safes....

Torch carrier? I probably own as many, if not more guns than you and I have no intention of giving them to anyone. However, I'm not such a complete moron that I think the USA has appropriate gun laws. There is a middle ground that doesn't have to end with some silly slippery slope argument.

I don't want your guns taken away, whether they be semi-auto, bolt action, level action, pump action or single shot. I don't care.

 

[Doer]

I've still yet to hear a realistic argument against proper storage laws, e.g. trigger locks and gun safes....

So, you aren't really as gun savvy as you say, right? If you can't think this one through, we can't help you.

What good is an unloaded gun, much less a locked up one? How stupid.

 

[Beefbisquit]

So, you aren't really as gun savvy as you say, right? If you can't think this one through, we can't help you.

What good is an unloaded gun, much less a locked up one? How stupid.

Smooth is fast. I have a Remington model 870 with a 12" barrel beside my bed. I can get the trigger lock off pretty fucking quick.

I also have a baseball bat and a sword within arms reach.