Fan Leafs. Blockers of Light Or Energy Producers???

[PJ Diaz]

He is driven to control the narrative, and that's OK if he had any scientific evidence of why fan leaves are destructive which it totally ludicrous. Someone needs to read R.C. Clarke's MJ Botany again and check out Jorge Cervantes.

Perhaps the reason I'm able to control the narrative is my good reading comprehension. I own both those books, but don't agree with everything in them.

I never said fan leaves were destructive. Are you stupid or just senile?

You posted some scientific study last night, which I pointed out proved my point. I see you've failed to come up with any witty reply to that one, and of course you can't come up with any real data to explain it either. You're a poser, plain and simple. Why are you even still here? Oh, never-mind I already figured it out. You're still ass sore because a mod and myself trolled your troll thread (and thread with a title that includes "noobs" and "snake oil" in the title is clearly a troll thread), and shut it down. Dude, just get some prep H and take a hot bath. I'm not your enemy, I'm your enlightener. I troll trolls exclusively.

 

[thoumayest]

Just bend them gently down and/or outta the way

.........Agreed.

 

[Slab]

We have determined that it is not amount of light causing that yellowing. You stated it is at the top there is plenty of light is avail.

yes it is true that 80 -90% of par is absorbed by the leaf and the rest as I stated is transmitted.

That absorbed light is used through out the entire plant and not just the leaf absorbing it.

over saturation has yet to be discussed here and is worth a look photo inhibition is the phenomenon

 

[PJ Diaz]

We have determined that it is not amount of light causing that yellowing. You stated it is at the top there is plenty of light is avail.

yes it is true that 80 -90% of par is absorbed by the leaf and the rest as I stated is transmitted.

That absorbed light is used through out the entire plant and not just the leaf absorbing it.

over saturation has yet to be discussed here and is worth a look photo inhibition is the phenomenon

I agree with that, but at the same time the absorbed light is used in a fairly localized manner, which is why some leaves that don't get as much lights as others may yellow sooner.

 

[Slab]

I bet you Running a co2 tank would stop that yellowing, just a hunch.

 

[PJ Diaz]

I bet you Running a co2 tank would stop that yellowing, just a hunch.

Perhaps, but I'm not going to go that direction.

Let's keep this in context though.. The only yellowing I had on my plants this run (aside from one plant that I was running a new nute regiment on; which sucked BTW) was in a very specific area where one leaf laid right on top of a portion of another leaf. That's it. Green all the way to harvest otherwise. I think if anything the stomata were simply being blocked by the top leaf, which is why I feel like your co2 thoughts are a good point. The problem however is that you can only take that idea so far.. I mean, let's say I pumped my tent to the max c02 level (without being toxic to my plants), the fact remains that the top leaf would still be covering the stomata of the bottom leaf.

Compare it to this: as a human if we're put in an oxygen rich environment, we still can't breathe very well with a sweatshirt covering our face.

 

[sheik yerbouti]

I firmly believe that if you've never tried defoliating you can't say shit whether it's good or not. How could you know how it effects marijuana plants if you've never seen it or tried it? No one is saying it's a guaranteed bet that if you pull the fan leaves off you'll get more yield. It's another way of controlling your plants.

Have a small grow space and and fast growing plant, pull the leaves off in veg and your plant will slow vertical growth, you'll see the internodes are tighter now.

Have a dense SOG or SCROG and your plants are stretching because they are getting shaded by other plants and stretching for the light? Pull the leaves off your plants will now have the light they need and won't stretch.

Notice the nugs in the lower portion of your grow are light green and airy? pull some leaves off and they will thicken up.

Doing a Vertical bulb grow and your plant only sees one side of light? pull some leaves off and light will penetrate the plant and the far side will see more light.

So many reasons to pull fan leaves off for certain growing styles. If you have a couple of plants spaced out with lots of light from all directions then you will probably not have any use for fan leafing but don't go talking shit about how it must be bad because "leaves are the solar panels for you plant" ya ya, not everyone has the same set-up and taking fan leaves off does help for certain set-ups. That is a fact.

 

[PJ Diaz]

I'll try again. Grow outdoors like I have many times, you will experience popcorn buds on the lower part of the plant, it's just what cannabis does and has NOTHING to do with light penetration to plant lower levels. That is another forum myth that just won't die, and with every new crop of noobs.....you get the rest. Popcorn buds are a RESULT of chronological plant development, (the top plant develops first and biggest, the bottom develops little or not at all), hormonal processes and most of all the affect of apical dominance. In plain Ingles, the top part of the plant gets all the goodies. Why do you think that when you deprive your plant of N that it sacrifices the N found in lower leaves and transports it to the upper leaves? The Herd of Calves hits their plants with bloom foods, the lower leaves yellow and fall off, and they sit there not able to figure out why.

Uncle Ben

I just put my first plant from my first every defoliated harvest into jars (first plant came in @ 98 grams btw) and I think you should know that popcorn nugs with this strain are super minimal compared to previous harvests of genetic clones. G13Haze

 

[PJ Diaz]

i firmly believe that if you've never tried defoliating you can't say shit whether it's good or not. How could you know how it effects marijuana plants if you've never seen it or tried it? No one is saying it's a guaranteed bet that if you pull the fan leaves off you'll get more yield. It's another way of controlling your plants.

Have a small grow space and and fast growing plant, pull the leaves off in veg and your plant will slow vertical growth, you'll see the internodes are tighter now.

Have a dense sog or scrog and your plants are stretching because they are getting shaded by other plants and stretching for the light? Pull the leaves off your plants will now have the light they need and won't stretch.

Notice the nugs in the lower portion of your grow are light green and airy? Pull some leaves off and they will thicken up.

Doing a vertical bulb grow and your plant only sees one side of light? Pull some leaves off and light will penetrate the plant and the far side will see more light.

So many reasons to pull fan leaves off for certain growing styles. If you have a couple of plants spaced out with lots of light from all directions then you will probably not have any use for fan leafing but don't go talking shit about how it must be bad because "leaves are the solar panels for you plant" ya ya, not everyone has the same set-up and taking fan leaves off does help for certain set-ups. That is a fact.

^^this guy knows what's up^^

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to sheik yerbouti again.

 

[PJ Diaz]

Aint buying it, just like I don't buy 90% of the stuff/theories in this forum. If you need money for a few fans I'll be glad to help. Walmart has some good buys.

UB

I guess you missed my post just a few before yours where I clearly described my 7 fans in a 4x4 space. Again, READING COMPREHENSION is key. As I said, I live 3 blocks from the beach, but I can't expect some mid-westerner to understand what that means to evening atmospheric conditions. Perhaps you could use your god-like abilities to get rid of the evening fog banks that engulf my house nightly.

Feeling, not a fact.

I didn't say it was a fact, now did I. Why do you look at everything from such a warped perspective and rehash it out of context?

The point is, much of your science is very one dimensional, and doesn't take the big picture into consideration. My point was, that it's certainly at least worthwhile to consider that there's more to this whole leaf removal thing than simple photosynthesis, and that perhaps hormonal responses resulting from leaf removal may play a larger role than previously considered. It's daft of you to dubunk a possibility simply because it hasn't been researched yet.

Oh, and if case no one told you yet, the world isn't flat anymore either. What does Ms Uncle Ben think about all that, if there is one, or did you run all the women in your life away with your crotchety and disgruntled cynicism?

 

[Uncle Ben]

I did learn from my reading last night, that a leaf doesn't only absorb light for itself. It drives PS for the other leaves.

if you could UB, help me understand what happens to PAR when a leaf reaches its saturation point.

Does transmittance occur?

You've got it backwards. What happens to a leaf above its saturation point. Do a search. I've linked this research a dozen times.

Not gonna address the anecdotal evidence post by post as it's the same old stuff - none of you are capable of replicating the absolute cultural factors at least 3 times to draw any kind of a conclusion. You're seeing what you want to see. Hells bells, none of you is even running clones and doing a control group.

I'll say it again, you butcher and do all the tricks you want to your garden, but if you were on my farm and I caught you "suckering" my tomato plants or defoliating my fruit, nut, berries, citrus or avocado trees....I'd kick your ass where your tonsils ought to be.

Carry on,
UB

 

[PJ Diaz]

Aint buying it, just like I don't buy 90% of the stuff/theories in this forum. If you need money for a few fans I'll be glad to help. Walmart has some good buys.

UB

I'll say it again, you butcher and do all the tricks you want to your garden, but if you were on my farm and I caught you "suckering" my tomato plants or defoliating my fruit, nut, berries, citrus or avocado trees....I'd kick your ass where your tonsils ought to be.

Why would anyone do that?? You're not growing trees indoors in an enclosed environment under artificial lighting are you?

 

[Slab]

Quit ball polishing each other.

I see your point PJ.

You guys are trying to change clothes in a phone booth, you will have to change the way you get undressed.

 

[Uncle Ben]

Here are some studies

The predictions of these three models were tested on the tree Brosimum alicastrum and the liana Vitis tiliifolia.
Seedlings were subjected to three levels of experimental defoliation (0%, 50% and 90% leaf removal) along a light resource gradient (1%, 9% and 65% of full sun).
In both species, defoliation significantly increased leaf production rate and relative growth rate of leaf area, but not of biomass.

Fine, I already stated that a plant will try to replace that which it knows should be there. I found that out when I severly defoliated some Mexican many years ago. So, why bother? There were so many factors stated in your references that they can't transpose to what we're doing. For starts, I know of no one growing a water stressed plant, under drought conditions, like you cited with the cotton crop. For starts, cotton is more like okra. Cannabis is more like tomatoes.

SUMMARY

Different patterns of dry-matter accumulation in various plant parts was observed. Silking was delayed by increasing plant density. Defoliation (even partial)
at the 16th fully expanded leaf stage resulted in substantial reduction in LAI and such yield components as number of ears, ear length, ear diameter and
1000-grain weight.

Monocot versus a dicot. Silks, ears, oh my!

 

[sheik yerbouti]

You're seeing what you want to see. Hells bells, none of you is even running clones and doing a control group.

Actually I am, it's no scientific study but it sure is easy to take a couple of plants, strip the fans leaves off, leave the rest and see how it effects the growth. I recommend trying it.

I'll say it again, you butcher and do all the tricks you want to your garden, but if you were on my farm and I caught you "suckering" my tomato plants or defoliating my fruit, nut, berries, citrus or avocado trees....I'd kick your ass where your tonsils ought to be.

Carry on,
UB

What the hell does an advocado plant have to do with an indoor grow? let alone a singular tree outside in natural lighting with comparison to an indoor SOG grow? Asinine. I bet you prune your apple tree's to get more fruit though....

 

[Slab]

You've got it backwards. What happens to a leaf above its saturation point. Do a search. I've linked this research a dozen times.

Not gonna address the anecdotal evidence post by post as it's the same old stuff - none of you are capable of replicating the absolute cultural factors at least 3 times to draw any kind of a conclusion. You're seeing what you want to see. Hells bells, none of you is even running clones and doing a control group.

I'll say it again, you butcher and do all the tricks you want to your garden, but if you were on my farm and I caught you "suckering" my tomato plants or defoliating my fruit, nut, berries, citrus or avocado trees....I'd kick your ass where your tonsils ought to be.

Carry on,
UB

ok I will be more diligent in my studies, I am pro leaf. Big on roots also for the record.

you even fart in my general direction you would be fertilizing my next outdoor crop, you cantankerous old salty dog lol.

 

[Slab]

Xanthophyll cycle?

Am I in the right direction?

 

[Uncle Ben]

Actually I am, it's no scientific study but it sure is easy to take a couple of plants, strip the fans leaves off, leave the rest and see how it effects the growth. I recommend trying it.



What the hell does an advocado plant have to do with an indoor grow? let alone a singular tree outside in natural lighting with comparison to an indoor SOG grow? Asinine. I bet you prune your apple tree's to get more fruit though....

An avocado tree has leaves.

Like I said, I wouldn't touch the leaves on an apple tree. That's stupid and results in less fruit of lower quality. You see, there's this odd thing going on with plants called "photosynthesis". I open up dormant fruit trees in to a vase shape much like what happens with my 4 main cola drill. Fruiting trees are pruned hard when dormant during the winter, it's a common practice done on all fruiting trees done for certain reasons, but that's not the type of butchering you're talking about and for different reasons regarding certain results and profiles.

Look, you'll not convince me with your anecdotal evidence and hearsay and I'll not convince you with my science.

UB

 

[Uncle Ben]

Actually I am, it's no scientific study but it sure is easy to take a couple of plants, strip the fans leaves off, leave the rest and see how it effects the growth. I recommend trying it.

As stated in a previous post, I have. You think God put those super efficient big ass photon collectors there for some marihuana nerd to strip 'em off?

 

[PJ Diaz]

An avocado tree has leaves.

Like I said, I wouldn't touch the leaves on an apple tree. That's stupid and results in less fruit of lower quality. You see, there's this odd thing going on with plants called "photosynthesis". I open up dormant fruit trees in to a vase shape much like what happens with my 4 main cola drill. Fruiting trees are pruned hard when dormant during the winter, it's a common practice done on all fruiting trees done for certain reasons, but that's not the type of butchering you're talking about.

Look, you'll not convince me with your anecdotal evidence and hearsay and I'll not convince you with my science.

UB

Again. Please try some reading comprehension. He's talking about indoor vs outdoor grows. Are you getting senile or something?