prosperian
Well-Known Member
Is that a mood changing avatar?
What's this white fuzzy stuff on soil? Organic users advice for first grow. See pics
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prosperian
Well-Known Member
I got a dig around in my garage for something long and narrow enough to hit the bottom, probably a screw driver will do the trick.
Redbird1223
Active Member
alright lets get some shit straight here
hotrod - I don't grow in smart pots or fabric pots, just regular dumb pots. and they work well for me, maybe cause I'm stupid.
you already took offense to my earlier post in the newb section when you weren't even the one I quoted.
poly - If you want to play with the top 2 inches, fine. nothing good will happen if you do, and nothing bad will happen if you don't. It won't affect your plant.
you're not growing native texas shit dirt, you bought good, fluffy soil from a nursery. If it drains well, then you're good. no need to puncture unless it's clay, but if you want to, fine.
nobody tills or stabs the forests, they seem to do well.
cutting a big root to make smaller roots because it would "then take up water and nutrients easier than one big one." is nonsense. big roots branch off into small roots then into little hairs. The plant knows how to feed itself efficiently.
hotrod - I don't grow in smart pots or fabric pots, just regular dumb pots. and they work well for me, maybe cause I'm stupid.
you already took offense to my earlier post in the newb section when you weren't even the one I quoted.
poly - If you want to play with the top 2 inches, fine. nothing good will happen if you do, and nothing bad will happen if you don't. It won't affect your plant.
you're not growing native texas shit dirt, you bought good, fluffy soil from a nursery. If it drains well, then you're good. no need to puncture unless it's clay, but if you want to, fine.
nobody tills or stabs the forests, they seem to do well.
cutting a big root to make smaller roots because it would "then take up water and nutrients easier than one big one." is nonsense. big roots branch off into small roots then into little hairs. The plant knows how to feed itself efficiently.
prosperian
Well-Known Member
OK, so here is the wrap up of evaluating everyone's feedback and doing some more reading in the books.
I aerated the top 2" of soil and did not apply anything to prevent the growth of the saprophytic fungi. Because I have not transplanted the plants since they were seedlings, I chose to plunge down to the bottom with a metal rod to open up the air flow in my 3 gal containers.
If I killed them, lesson learned, and I will only listen to bmeat's advice from that point forward.
I aerated the top 2" of soil and did not apply anything to prevent the growth of the saprophytic fungi. Because I have not transplanted the plants since they were seedlings, I chose to plunge down to the bottom with a metal rod to open up the air flow in my 3 gal containers.
If I killed them, lesson learned, and I will only listen to bmeat's advice from that point forward.
BeaverHuntr
Well-Known Member
Right on dude.. You should be fine either way..
prosperian
Well-Known Member
She's lookin good and smelling fine, well, smells like dirt, but I guess that's ok!
THANKS FOR THE HELP. I WILL KEEP EVERYONE POSTED!
bigbull52
Active Member
Cant amputating roots and leaving them in the soil cause root rot and mess up your soil?
natro.hydro
Well-Known Member
Just came across this thread in the newb section and was interested as well. I have had this on my grows, I have only ever used FFof soil and ff nutes. So slightlily organic but not when you factor in the nutes. I always thought the mold was from light getting to my soil, and while it was not harmful to the plant I did not like it for aesthetics reasons so I always just tilled it a little with my fingers. Is this stuff actually mycellium? I thought that grew directly around the roots but I could be way off base. When I used the root pouches that nirvana sells (fabric pots) I noticed that this stuff would grow on the side of the containers if it was kept too moist. Reason I say it is light related is because as soon as my canopy blocked out the container it went away. Never cared that much about the stuff since it never grew towards the plant base. Would love to hear more input on this since their does not seem to be a great consensus on this issue. I know it is not PM but if it is harmful I will def start zappin that shit with some h2o2
Bmeat you are a fungus expert because you are a fungus... just have not found a way to get rid of you yet. You need to check out Finshaggy's grow, you guys could get some really good ideas going between the two of you.
Bmeat you are a fungus expert because you are a fungus... just have not found a way to get rid of you yet. You need to check out Finshaggy's grow, you guys could get some really good ideas going between the two of you.
Redbird1223
Active Member
[h=1]Mycelium[/h] From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Fungal mycelia
Microscopic view of a mycelium. This image covers a one-millimeter square.
Another microscopic view of a mycelium. Numbered ticks are 230 µm apart.
Oyster mushroom (Pleurotus ostreatus) growing on coffee grounds
Mycelium (plural mycelia) is the vegetative part of a fungus, consisting of a mass of branching, thread-like hyphae. The mass of hyphae is sometimes called shiro, especially within the fairy ring fungi. Fungal colonies composed of mycelia are found in soil and on or within many other substrates. A typical single spore germinates into a homokaryotic mycelium, which cannot reproduce sexually; when two compatible homokaryotic mycelia join and form a dikaryotic mycelium, that mycelium may form fruiting bodies such as mushrooms. A mycelium may be minute, forming a colony that is too small to see, or it may be extensive:
Mycelia are vital in terrestrial and aquatic ecosystems for their role in the decomposition of plant material. They contribute to the organic fraction of soil, and their growth releases carbon dioxide back into the atmosphere. The mycelium of mycorrhizal fungi increases the efficiency of water and nutrient absorption of most plants and confers resistance to some plant pathogens. Mycelia are an important food source for many soil invertebrates.
Sclerotia are compact or hard masses of mycelia.
Jump to: navigation, search
Fungal mycelia
Microscopic view of a mycelium. This image covers a one-millimeter square.
Another microscopic view of a mycelium. Numbered ticks are 230 µm apart.
Oyster mushroom (Pleurotus ostreatus) growing on coffee grounds
Mycelium (plural mycelia) is the vegetative part of a fungus, consisting of a mass of branching, thread-like hyphae. The mass of hyphae is sometimes called shiro, especially within the fairy ring fungi. Fungal colonies composed of mycelia are found in soil and on or within many other substrates. A typical single spore germinates into a homokaryotic mycelium, which cannot reproduce sexually; when two compatible homokaryotic mycelia join and form a dikaryotic mycelium, that mycelium may form fruiting bodies such as mushrooms. A mycelium may be minute, forming a colony that is too small to see, or it may be extensive:
Is this the largest organism in the world? This 2,400-acre (9.7 km[SUP]2[/SUP]) site in eastern Oregon had a contiguous growth of mycelium before logging roads cut through it.Estimated at 1,665 football fields in size and 2,200 years old, this one fungus has killed the forest above it several times over, and in so doing has built deeper soil layers that allow the growth of ever-larger stands of trees. Mushroom-forming forest fungi are unique in that their mycelial mats can achieve such massive proportions.
—Paul Stamets, Mycelium Running
It is through the mycelium that a fungus absorbs nutrients from its environment. It does this in a two-stage process. First, the hyphae secrete enzymes onto or into the food source, which break down biological polymers into smaller units such as monomers. These monomers are then absorbed into the mycelium by facilitated diffusion and active transport.—Paul Stamets, Mycelium Running
Mycelia are vital in terrestrial and aquatic ecosystems for their role in the decomposition of plant material. They contribute to the organic fraction of soil, and their growth releases carbon dioxide back into the atmosphere. The mycelium of mycorrhizal fungi increases the efficiency of water and nutrient absorption of most plants and confers resistance to some plant pathogens. Mycelia are an important food source for many soil invertebrates.
Sclerotia are compact or hard masses of mycelia.
natro.hydro
Well-Known Member
K so my misunderstanding was that mycelium was a fungus of its own not the "roots" of the fungus, thanx for clearing that up. Guess I will keep doing the stir method since it does not seem to harm anything and I just do not like the look of it on my soil, and is prob just a sign it needs to be played with a little. If anything I guess I can take it as a sign that FFof soil is pretty thriving on a microbial level.
prosperian
Well-Known Member
"Yeah that's the stuff, that's the stuff that slimed me"Mycelium
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopediato:
Fungal mycelia
.
http://www.ehow.com/list_6688745_types-white-mold.html
theres no way to tell without a culture. i would have killed it or at least brought its numbers down.
theres no way to tell without a culture. i would have killed it or at least brought its numbers down.
Nullis
Moderator
^No you wouldn't have, not so much anyways. Not without totally changing the soil, because the fungi will still be active along with the hundreds of species you can't see at all.
Turning it\tilling it into the soil is only going to spread spores around, not that it would matter either way.
Turning it\tilling it into the soil is only going to spread spores around, not that it would matter either way.
agreed that it will only help it spread quicker.
peroxide will lower the population size of the colonly, but it will not fully sterilize the medium. thats why i suggested a couple day regimen of diluted h2o2
if the medium does become sterile, you need to add biota with something like the soil start plus that i have, unless youre a hydro or chemical grower. then the biota will be dead already
peroxide will lower the population size of the colonly, but it will not fully sterilize the medium. thats why i suggested a couple day regimen of diluted h2o2
if the medium does become sterile, you need to add biota with something like the soil start plus that i have, unless youre a hydro or chemical grower. then the biota will be dead already
Redbird1223
Active Member
Are you trolling? sterile is the devil's maiden name!!!
It is a natural and desired fungus. This isn't a labratory, NO PEROXIDE.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_farming
[h=3]Soil management[/h] Organic farming relies heavily on the natural breakdown of organic matter, using techniques like green manure and composting, to replace nutrients taken from the soil by previous crops. This biological process, driven by microorganisms such as mycorrhiza, allows the natural production of nutrients in the soil throughout the growing season, and has been referred to as feeding the soil to feed the plant. Organic farming uses a variety of methods to improve soil fertility, including crop rotation, cover cropping, reduced tillage, and application of compost. By reducing tillage, soil is not inverted and exposed to air; less carbon is lost to the atmosphere resulting in more soil organic carbon. This has an added benefit of carbon sequestration which can reduce green house gases and aid in reversing climate change.
Plants need nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium, as well as micronutrients and symbiotic relationships with fungi and other organisms to flourish, but getting enough nitrogen, and particularly synchronization so that plants get enough nitrogen at the right time (when plants need it most), is a challenge for organic farmers.[SUP][22][/SUP] Crop rotation and green manure ("cover crops") help to provide nitrogen through legumes (more precisely, the Fabaceae family) which fix nitrogen from the atmosphere through symbiosis with rhizobial bacteria. Intercropping, which is sometimes used for insect and disease control, can also increase soil nutrients, but the competition between the legume and the crop can be problematic and wider spacing between crop rows is required. Crop residues can be ploughed back into the soil, and different plants leave different amounts of nitrogen, potentially aiding synchronization.[SUP][22][/SUP] Organic farmers also use animal manure, certain processed fertilizers such as seed meal and various mineral powders such as rock phosphate and greensand, a naturally occurring form of potash which provides potassium. Together these methods help to control erosion. In some cases pH may need to be amended. Natural pH amendments include lime and sulfur, but in the U.S. some compounds such as iron sulfate, aluminum sulfate, magnesium sulfate, and soluble boron products are allowed in organic farming.[SUP][23][/SUP][SUP]:43[/SUP]
Mixed farms with both livestock and crops can operate as ley farms, whereby the land gathers fertility through growing nitrogen-fixing forage grasses such as white clover or alfalfa and grows cash crops or cereals when fertility is established. Farms without livestock ("stockless") may find it more difficult to maintain soil fertility, and may rely more on external inputs such as imported manure as well as grain legumes and green manures, although grain legumes may fix limited nitrogen because they are harvested. Horticultural farms growing fruits and vegetables which operate in protected conditions are often even more reliant upon external inputs.[SUP][22][/SUP]
Biological research on soil and soil organisms has proven beneficial to organic farming. Varieties of bacteria and fungi break down chemicals, plant matter and animal waste into productive soil nutrients. In turn, they produce benefits of healthier yields and more productive soil for future crops.[SUP][24][/SUP] Fields with less or no manure display significantly lower yields, due to decreased soil microbe community, providing a healthier, more arable soil system.[SUP][25][/SUP]
It is a natural and desired fungus. This isn't a labratory, NO PEROXIDE.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_farming
[h=3]Soil management[/h] Organic farming relies heavily on the natural breakdown of organic matter, using techniques like green manure and composting, to replace nutrients taken from the soil by previous crops. This biological process, driven by microorganisms such as mycorrhiza, allows the natural production of nutrients in the soil throughout the growing season, and has been referred to as feeding the soil to feed the plant. Organic farming uses a variety of methods to improve soil fertility, including crop rotation, cover cropping, reduced tillage, and application of compost. By reducing tillage, soil is not inverted and exposed to air; less carbon is lost to the atmosphere resulting in more soil organic carbon. This has an added benefit of carbon sequestration which can reduce green house gases and aid in reversing climate change.
Plants need nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium, as well as micronutrients and symbiotic relationships with fungi and other organisms to flourish, but getting enough nitrogen, and particularly synchronization so that plants get enough nitrogen at the right time (when plants need it most), is a challenge for organic farmers.[SUP][22][/SUP] Crop rotation and green manure ("cover crops") help to provide nitrogen through legumes (more precisely, the Fabaceae family) which fix nitrogen from the atmosphere through symbiosis with rhizobial bacteria. Intercropping, which is sometimes used for insect and disease control, can also increase soil nutrients, but the competition between the legume and the crop can be problematic and wider spacing between crop rows is required. Crop residues can be ploughed back into the soil, and different plants leave different amounts of nitrogen, potentially aiding synchronization.[SUP][22][/SUP] Organic farmers also use animal manure, certain processed fertilizers such as seed meal and various mineral powders such as rock phosphate and greensand, a naturally occurring form of potash which provides potassium. Together these methods help to control erosion. In some cases pH may need to be amended. Natural pH amendments include lime and sulfur, but in the U.S. some compounds such as iron sulfate, aluminum sulfate, magnesium sulfate, and soluble boron products are allowed in organic farming.[SUP][23][/SUP][SUP]:43[/SUP]
Mixed farms with both livestock and crops can operate as ley farms, whereby the land gathers fertility through growing nitrogen-fixing forage grasses such as white clover or alfalfa and grows cash crops or cereals when fertility is established. Farms without livestock ("stockless") may find it more difficult to maintain soil fertility, and may rely more on external inputs such as imported manure as well as grain legumes and green manures, although grain legumes may fix limited nitrogen because they are harvested. Horticultural farms growing fruits and vegetables which operate in protected conditions are often even more reliant upon external inputs.[SUP][22][/SUP]
Biological research on soil and soil organisms has proven beneficial to organic farming. Varieties of bacteria and fungi break down chemicals, plant matter and animal waste into productive soil nutrients. In turn, they produce benefits of healthier yields and more productive soil for future crops.[SUP][24][/SUP] Fields with less or no manure display significantly lower yields, due to decreased soil microbe community, providing a healthier, more arable soil system.[SUP][25][/SUP]
i understand, im an organic gower. but sometimes, when there is an overgrowth in the plant or human immune system, we must whipe it out and start over
i dont think this fungus is that serious, but i would bring down its colony count by using peroxide a couple times, just to 'slow its roll'
i dont think this fungus is that serious, but i would bring down its colony count by using peroxide a couple times, just to 'slow its roll'
Nullis
Moderator
That's still doing more harm than necessary to something that is very likely wholly innocuous. The peroxide isn't going to discriminate; it will kill any living cell it comes into contact with.
It's really no big deal . I often see white fuzz on soil I have mixed and moistened, after letting it sit a few days, and just mix it all up before using. Say you want to brew an actively aerated compost tea dominated by fungi to apply to your flowering plants. Take a cup of compost or humus and mix in a source of complex carbohydrates, like a tablespoon of powdered oatmeal. Wet the mix such that it will stay moist, cover partially (still needs air exchange) and place it somewhere warm. After several days fungal mycelium will have conquered the entire substrate. You'll have something like what is pictured. The mass of mycelium\humus should be broken up into smaller bits before being used to brew; other ingredients conducive to fungi should be added such as humic acids, kelp meal, yucca extract, only low doses of blackstrap molasses no more than a teaspoon per gallon.
Saprophytes are beneficial, for various reasons some of which RedBird1223 pointed out. There are other kinds of fungi, too, and so many types and species of fungi carry out unique functions in nature or produce unique compounds. Some fungi such as species of the common Trichoderma are themselves fungicidal (against pythium, botrytis) and are actually sold as bio-fungicides. Then of course there are mycorrhizal fungi which include various phyla and sub-phyla in the Fungi kingdom. Depending on what species exactly, it is directly penetrating the root cell of the host plant with its hypha (most do) and forms structures known as 'arbuscules' to exchange nutrients with it's host, while other kinds of mycorrhiza exist which have other and perhaps somewhat less invasive methods for exchanging their nutrients.
Those are just two highly simplistic assessments of two classifications of fungi. The primary point to take away as to why fungi are a good thing to have in your soil has to do with how fungi, in general, evolved to obtain nutrients and energy compared to plants. Think about how plant roots differ from fungal hyphae. Hyphae are much sleeker, able to penetrate things more efficiently and colonize a substrate (as you can see) versus how plant roots grow. The individual hypha and thus the mycelial network over-all has greater access to nutrients and water than a plants' root system. Fungi also possess enzymes that break complex organic substances into simpler ones (as Redbird1223 pointed out), and this is important for plants to be able to obtain phosphorous in particular.
People get freaked out about fungi, just like they do micro-athropods, springtails (Collembola) and 'bugs' in general because sometimes we can actually see them unlike bacteria, archae, protozoans or even most nematodes. Usually though, the only times I see fungal growth on the soil surface is shortly after transplanting when the roots have yet to really grow into the soil; because it is staying too moist and warm underneath the lights which are exactly the conditions a lot of fungi like.
It's really no big deal . I often see white fuzz on soil I have mixed and moistened, after letting it sit a few days, and just mix it all up before using. Say you want to brew an actively aerated compost tea dominated by fungi to apply to your flowering plants. Take a cup of compost or humus and mix in a source of complex carbohydrates, like a tablespoon of powdered oatmeal. Wet the mix such that it will stay moist, cover partially (still needs air exchange) and place it somewhere warm. After several days fungal mycelium will have conquered the entire substrate. You'll have something like what is pictured. The mass of mycelium\humus should be broken up into smaller bits before being used to brew; other ingredients conducive to fungi should be added such as humic acids, kelp meal, yucca extract, only low doses of blackstrap molasses no more than a teaspoon per gallon.
Saprophytes are beneficial, for various reasons some of which RedBird1223 pointed out. There are other kinds of fungi, too, and so many types and species of fungi carry out unique functions in nature or produce unique compounds. Some fungi such as species of the common Trichoderma are themselves fungicidal (against pythium, botrytis) and are actually sold as bio-fungicides. Then of course there are mycorrhizal fungi which include various phyla and sub-phyla in the Fungi kingdom. Depending on what species exactly, it is directly penetrating the root cell of the host plant with its hypha (most do) and forms structures known as 'arbuscules' to exchange nutrients with it's host, while other kinds of mycorrhiza exist which have other and perhaps somewhat less invasive methods for exchanging their nutrients.
Those are just two highly simplistic assessments of two classifications of fungi. The primary point to take away as to why fungi are a good thing to have in your soil has to do with how fungi, in general, evolved to obtain nutrients and energy compared to plants. Think about how plant roots differ from fungal hyphae. Hyphae are much sleeker, able to penetrate things more efficiently and colonize a substrate (as you can see) versus how plant roots grow. The individual hypha and thus the mycelial network over-all has greater access to nutrients and water than a plants' root system. Fungi also possess enzymes that break complex organic substances into simpler ones (as Redbird1223 pointed out), and this is important for plants to be able to obtain phosphorous in particular.
People get freaked out about fungi, just like they do micro-athropods, springtails (Collembola) and 'bugs' in general because sometimes we can actually see them unlike bacteria, archae, protozoans or even most nematodes. Usually though, the only times I see fungal growth on the soil surface is shortly after transplanting when the roots have yet to really grow into the soil; because it is staying too moist and warm underneath the lights which are exactly the conditions a lot of fungi like.
thank you for this! i do understand there are good and bad fungi and bacterium, and we want a population of the good so the bad cant conquer!
but, how do we know his white mold was a good one?
BeaverHuntr
Well-Known Member
Why do you keep questioning these guys and the mold issue??? I dont know how old you are but I bet RedBird and Nullis have more years combined with organic growing knowledge.... Not sure if you like to troll or just like being a stupid asshole.