defoliation? yes/no and techniques

DoomsDay

Member
I get so sick of that " if the plant didn't need it " argument. Last I checked anyone here that is growing indoors is doing SOMETHING Mother Nature didn't intend for. That is the WHOLE damn point of growing indoors. To provide a "perfect" environment. Then there is that other argument where "plants have evolved over millions of years " (as it was out to me by another gentleman), that during that process they would have "learned" to she'd what they needed. Well folks, plants adapt to survive. Not flourish to their upmost potential, but to survive and thrive as best as possible by any means necessary to get to the growth stage to produce seed and hopefully carry on its genetic code. That is it. So what is to say that because leaves don't get trimmed in nature, it doesn't help the plant flourish more than if it did.

I by no way advocate hacking your plants leaves to shit and cutting all the big leaves off or any one crap you retards manage to warp these words into. I DO however belies in selective trimming of certain grown or overgrown leaves hat I feel are no longer aiding in the growth of the plant. Does it produce more in yield, i can make no claim to that. I have noticed that ones I selectively trim vs one of the clones from the same mom flowering at the same time that I leave alone completely, the buds on the trimmed up one are more solid, dense, and I have less leaf in the bud to trim. Because of the trimming, the leaves in the buds extend out so I only have stems to clip and a few minor leaf tips. I like the outcome I get. It's my grow and I run it how I want.
 

DoomsDay

Member
I guess that could be respectable. I grow for me and a few other patients and it is handed out freely. Only stipulation is if I do t have funds for power or nutes then the supply is cut off. I do this for the love of growing and for the great things this plant can do. Never gave a shit to try to put as much money as I can in my pocket with the least investment. Hopefully other growers out there do the same.
 

dopedeeii

Well-Known Member
@doom I'm involved in a collective style grow and it's not about money its about get the most and best Med for a reasonable over head my pepps want HQ Med at a decent price so it a lot of number's involved
 

Nullis

Moderator
Uh, yup, stem. What's your point?

I get so sick of that " if the plant didn't need it " argument. Last I checked anyone here that is growing indoors is doing SOMETHING Mother Nature didn't intend for. That is the WHOLE damn point of growing indoors. To provide a "perfect" environment. Then there is that other argument where "plants have evolved over millions of years " (as it was out to me by another gentleman), that during that process they would have "learned" to she'd what they needed. Well folks, plants adapt to survive. Not flourish to their upmost potential, but to survive and thrive as best as possible by any means necessary to get to the growth stage to produce seed and hopefully carry on its genetic code. That is it. So what is to say that because leaves don't get trimmed in nature, it doesn't help the plant flourish more than if it did.

I by no way advocate hacking your plants leaves to shit and cutting all the big leaves off or any one crap you retards manage to warp these words into. I DO however belies in selective trimming of certain grown or overgrown leaves hat I feel are no longer aiding in the growth of the plant. Does it produce more in yield, i can make no claim to that. I have noticed that ones I selectively trim vs one of the clones from the same mom flowering at the same time that I leave alone completely, the buds on the trimmed up one are more solid, dense, and I have less leaf in the bud to trim. Because of the trimming, the leaves in the buds extend out so I only have stems to clip and a few minor leaf tips. I like the outcome I get. It's my grow and I run it how I want.
Did you read the whole thread? Firstly, growing indoors we still have to, more so than not, mimic what nature intended for the plant and abide by natures rules. This is why they can't grow pot under water, in the dark, or in a vacuum. Secondly, well the last part of that first paragraph is a tad nonsensical, really. Leaves DO get trimmed in nature. The point of growing indoors to provide the perfect environment or controlled conditions, so the plants can thrive to their fullest potential and anybody who knows anything about how plants actually work knows that foliage is kind of important to survival. As for plants "adapting to survive yet not flourishing to their utmost potential", ever here of natural selection? Anything about evolution? The plants that DO flourish to their utmost potentially are most likely to produce more, healthier offspring which are in turn more likely to flourish to their utmost potential and produce more flourishing offspring and on and on we go.

Hacking your plants leaves to shit\cutting off all the big leaves is pretty much what 'defoliation' is all about. So why are we arguing? Sure it is your grow, run it how you want. Even though we seem to agree on some level, because selective trimming is not defoliation. But certainly it does seem to me that this plant, which has indeed evolved over millions of years- probably an eon and through out countless generations of natural selection, knows a hell of a lot more about how to grow itself than any human being.

Nullis I'm say mj is a weed a scavenger plant go halfway pull up sum weeds in ur yard watch how quick and how much stronger they come back
It irritates me to no end when people pull this cop out. "It's a weed, man". This has nothing to do with anything, but even so, weed is merely an umbrella-term...and scavenger plant? Seriously? No. It is not parasitic nor carnivorous. A weed is merely: A wild plant growing where it is not wanted and in competition with cultivated plants; an unwanted plant. By this definition sure Cannabis is a weed, but it can also be a cultivated plant; in your house it is a cultivated plant and not a weed.

It would really be nice if people would try to educate themselves on how plants actually work; how photosynthesis works; how the soil food web works, etc. There are plenty of credible sources of this kind of information online, including from colleges and universities around the world. If you want to perform your own kind of experimentation on plants, you should be some-what familiar with the scientific method, controlling and limiting variables. The results of any experiment are only really legitimate if every single variable was accounted for that could be (and results can be replicated); only a single variable is allowed to differ between the test group and the control group and ALL other things MUST be EQUAL. Including lighting, especially lighting. Plant A got more intense lighting than Plant B, well guess what plant A is probably going to have larger, dense buds.

You also need to be aware of confirmation bias and what it is. When people suggest to others that they experiment and try things out on their own, well that is good advice to an extent, but not everybody is really aware how to experiment. So when people come on here laying claim to their experiments or what they notice it needs to be taken with the obligatory grain of salt.
 

dopedeeii

Well-Known Member
Look nulls no argument everyone here tht really grows dose what's best for them there grow and there money and as far as the weed cop out u pulled the botany card first but can u tell me with proof tht our favorite plant is not exactly tht
 

dopedeeii

Well-Known Member
And again in my conditions my overall cost I'm happy with my technique I really just want to side by side for me an riu I'm brewing a batch of lady's now for my purposes
 

themanwiththeplan

Well-Known Member
generally you should only remove dying leaves and that should be only in flowering. you shouldnt have leaves dying in veg. if you do then you have either a nute or ph problem most likely.

even possibly pests.


if you must remove any leaves at all you want to do it in veg and give a MINIMUM of 1 week for the plant to recover before throwing it in 12/12...2 weeks is preferred.

but ONLY in veg. never remove them in flowering. i did that as a n00b and my yields suffered.

those leaves are what uses up the light. thats why in various sequencing videos on the lights on and off show the leaves rise as if they are praying...thats them soaking up that light!

remove the leaves = less light absorbed + plant shock/stress = lower quality and lower quantity of bud.
 

dopedeeii

Well-Known Member
I need all indica meds sleep problem but that said my girls get thick so its needed but I do it in veg and I remove 75%yellow leaves in bloom and to nulls the stem was and example of a healthy defoliated Lady frm main stem up
 

Javadog

Well-Known Member
For my part, I did remove growth on the lowest third of my AK-47s and Somangos,
as I am working with a well packed SOG and want good air flow beneath the canopy.

This being said, I removed branches, and left all fan leaves. I figure that they
will take care of themselves.

I also figure that this will have zero or negative effect on my yield. I am hoping
that this action will add weight to the higher up buds.

Take care all,

JD

P.S. I must agree that the OP is extremely difficult to comprehend entirely....I am
getting the gist of it, I think.
 

Nullis

Moderator
Many folks around here are extremely difficult to comprehend. This is part of the problem. The other part of the problem with most threads like this is that cutting off a few low branches, or leaves that are depleted (come off very easily) isn't defoliation and isn't really the issue. People remove perfectly healthy leaves, some fools go so far as to strip the plant of all fan leaves because they think they are not necessary or they are in the way. Really now? Forgetting entirely about what those leaves are there for, there are alternatives to removing them. How in the hell wouldn't they be necessary? Not that some plant don't posses a vestigial organ, but at any rate it would be the stipules, not the leaves.

It just baffles me why someone, at least somebody who understood how plants function, would want to remove perfectly healthy leaves. Not that the plant can't grow more leaves and it will grow more leaves but for the sake of practicality, sensibility, efficiency what is the issue some have with those big healthy leaves? Those are the most efficient at photosynthesis! If nothing else there are very important nutrients and compounds in those leaves that the plant has already assembled. If for whatever reason the leave isn't doing enough for the plant, the plant will 'prune' itself. Whatever compounds the plants can put to use elsewhere it will, and then the leaf starts to detach. Nature would help these leaves fall off, so sometimes we need to take natures role in that regard.

I do think it comes down to the fact that some people really cannot leave well enough alone and\or need to feel like they have complete control of everything.
 

zack66

Well-Known Member
I grow in a 4x4 area and it's crowded with 6 plants. I remove the bottom third of the plants in veg but, leave on as many leaves as possible. This helps with airflow and helps to get bigger top colas. I have tried trimming off some leaves and find leaving them on get's me bigger yields at the end.
 

DoomsDay

Member
wasnt going to say anything haha. i have for the first time in my life helped harvest and shook he hand of a grow that just hit 2 pounds per 1k bulb. it is possible but like i said, first time ive seen it with my own eyes and boy was it amazing. this is also a gentleman that is probably older than a few of us combined and has been doing this shit for a very long time. to have a yield like that without devoting at least a few years to working just a select few genetics only, unlikely.
 

dopedeeii

Well-Known Member
wasnt going to say anything haha. i have for the first time in my life helped harvest and shook he hand of a grow that just hit 2 pounds per 1k bulb. it is possible but like i said, first time ive seen it with my own eyes and boy was it amazing. this is also a gentleman that is probably older than a few of us combined and has been doing this shit for a very long time. to have a yield like that without devoting at least a few years to working just a select few genetics only, unlikely.
the right amount of vegg time the right medium space root zone and the right feed recipe u could do it to
 

dopedeeii

Well-Known Member
OK all the Nah Sayers r u speaking from UR own trails of both techniques r let me guess u never really grew grass but u kno som1 tht knos sum1 its fine with me ur opinion Its costed countless hours and dollars to master MY techniques not urs I dnt need to spread. B.s just want to spread MY knowledge. But peace
 

dopedeeii

Well-Known Member
I grow in a 4x4 area and it's crowded with 6 plants. I remove the bottom third of the plants in veg but, leave on as many leaves as possible. This helps with airflow and helps to get bigger top colas. I have tried trimming off some leaves and find leaving them on get's me bigger yields at the end.
But u see the difference I have 11 u have 6 my tent 4*4*7
 

Fresh 2 De@th

Well-Known Member
i would like to add the fact that if you're plant is healthy from the get go, taking off fans on any part of the plant should not be an issue or hinders down a plants growth.

if you want to get technical, i am pretty sure growing indoors is not nature at its best but here are some of you talking as if your way is the correct and only way to properly grow a plant out. actual fact is mj plants are not like any other species of plants and does benefit from certain stresses.
growing sensi, topping, lsting, growing in small pots or keeping plants small isn't mother nature but yet some of you are talking all of this botany talk as if you told us defoliators wrong and should listen to someone that totally contradicts himself as if your point is more valid than anyone else's.
 

Nullis

Moderator
^ Wth are you talking about, exactly?

I can't believe that people seem to think things like topping, lst, etc. can only be done to Cannabis. Already tried to explain that topping a plant, for instance, is a phenomenon that is both reproducible and explainable; that actually is mother nature. That wasn't you, you didn't build that!

For real though. And what the hell is wrong with "talking all of this botany", trying to help people actually understand how these things actually work so that maybe people actually can experiment for themselves and get legitimate results! Not just blinded by what they think they see.
 
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