common sense gun control, a solution looking for a problem

[desert dude]

http://reason.com/blog/2013/05/07/gun-control-would-address-declining-crim

'

• Firearm-related homicides declined 39%, from 18,253 in 1993 to 11,101 in 2011
• Nonfatal firearm crimes declined 69%, from 1.5 million victimizations in 1993 to 467,300 victimizations in 2011
• From 1993 to 2011, about 70% to 80% of firearm homicides and 90% of nonfatal firearm victimizations were committed with a handgun
• In 2004, among state prison inmates who possessed a gun at the time of offense, less than 2% bought their firearm at a flea market or gun show and 40% obtained their firearm from an illegal source"

"The number of homicides at schools declined over time, from an average of 29 per year in the 1990s (school year 1992-93 to 1999-00) to an average of 20 per year in the 2000s (school year 2000-01 to 2009-10)."

"And "military-style semiautomatic or fully automatic" firearms, of the sort targeted by Sen. Feinstein at the federal level, and by new laws in Colorado, Connecticut and New York, make up a whopping 3.2 percent of the weapons possessed by federal inmates, and 2 percent of the weapons possessed by state inmates, at the time of their offense."

 

[desert dude]

Oh my God, the NRA is pushing their "absolutist, second amendment" agenda with big money. The gun control crowd can't compete with that. Oh, wait, the NRA was outspent so now "money does not matter".

"Seattle Times decides money in politics no longer important:

NRA lobby outspent by state gun-control group

Money battle is not what’s important

As lobbying funds go, the amounts that each group spent — $16,666 by pro-gun-control supporters and $14,966 by the National Rifle Association — were insignificant [“Gun-control supporters outspent NRA lobby in Olympia this year,” NWMonday, May 6].​

http://blogs.seattletimes.com/.....rol-group/"

 

[Doer]

Yeah the NRA is not shrill enough to be a shill......the opposition shrill, just makes us chill

 

[UncleBuck]

http://reason.com/blog/2013/05/07/gun-control-would-address-declining-crim

'

• Firearm-related homicides declined 39%, from 18,253 in 1993 to 11,101 in 2011
• Nonfatal firearm crimes declined 69%, from 1.5 million victimizations in 1993 to 467,300 victimizations in 2011
• From 1993 to 2011, about 70% to 80% of firearm homicides and 90% of nonfatal firearm victimizations were committed with a handgun
• In 2004, among state prison inmates who possessed a gun at the time of offense, less than 2% bought their firearm at a flea market or gun show and 40% obtained their firearm from an illegal source"

"The number of homicides at schools declined over time, from an average of 29 per year in the 1990s (school year 1992-93 to 1999-00) to an average of 20 per year in the 2000s (school year 2000-01 to 2009-10)."

"And "military-style semiautomatic or fully automatic" firearms, of the sort targeted by Sen. Feinstein at the federal level, and by new laws in Colorado, Connecticut and New York, make up a whopping 3.2 percent of the weapons possessed by federal inmates, and 2 percent of the weapons possessed by state inmates, at the time of their offense."

2 percent?

doesn't sound like they are exactly "in common use", meaning that a ban on them would be consistent with the second as per the heller decision.

is there any reason why a civilian needs military style firepower?

 

[MuyLocoNC]

2 percent?

doesn't sound like they are exactly "in common use", meaning that a ban on them would be consistent with the second as per the heller decision.

is there any reason why a civilian needs military style firepower?

Uh, it was 2% of convicts, not 2% of the public as a whole. The fact that so few criminals possess these "military style" rifles shows the folly of legislation directed against them.

Answer: Best tool for the job. A typewriter might get the job done, but are you going to pass on the laptop to use it?

 

[UncleBuck]

Uh, it was 2% of convicts, not 2% of the public as a whole. The fact that so few criminals possess these "military style" rifles shows the folly of legislation directed against them.

aren't there about 300 million guns in the nation and only 5 or 6 million AR15s?

Answer: Best tool for the job. A typewriter might get the job done, but are you going to pass on the laptop to use it?

an AR15 is not as good a self defense weapon as a handgun or shotgun.

 

[twostrokenut]

Reasons civilians need military style firepower? Because it is civilian firepower that the military uses....ever bought a gun that was mfg by Uncle Sam? Oh, and they, the military, spend civilian money (taxes). So this Heller decision you speak of would be a ban based on bad parenting?

 

[Lurkdewitt]

2 percent?

doesn't sound like they are exactly "in common use", meaning that a ban on them would be consistent with the second as per the heller decision.

is there any reason why a civilian needs military style firepower?

Well if we're going off of military firepower, a .308 has much more firepower than a small .223 round, so why not ban hunting rifles? The reason we have a constitution and specifically the 2nd amendment is to protect the citizens from a tyrannical government; if gun rights start to wither, will they stop there. Or will free speech be next? Or maybe the 4th amendment so that the government can "keep us safer" by kicking down doors of anyone they suspect of doing a crime and search their home without due process and a proper warrant?

 

[UncleBuck]

Well if we're going off of military firepower, a .308 has much more firepower than a small .223 round, so why not ban hunting rifles? The reason we have a constitution and specifically the 2nd amendment is to protect the citizens from a tyrannical government; if gun rights start to wither, will they stop there. Or will free speech be next? Or maybe the 4th amendment so that the government can "keep us safer" by kicking down doors of anyone they suspect of doing a crime and search their home without due process and a proper warrant?

your slippery slope ridiculousness aside, the second is not "to protect the citizens from a tyrannical government", that would imply absolutism in the second, as in we can keep and bear nuclear bombs and panzer tanks.

the SCOTUS rejects that silly notion and with good reason as we are no longer fighting with cannon balls and muskets.

 

[UncleBuck]

Reasons civilians need military style firepower? Because it is civilian firepower that the military uses....ever bought a gun that was mfg by Uncle Sam? Oh, and they, the military, spend civilian money (taxes). So this Heller decision you speak of would be a ban based on bad parenting?

you can google the heller decision if you wish to learn about it.

 

[MuyLocoNC]

aren't there about 300 million guns in the nation and only 5 or 6 million AR15s?



an AR15 is not as good a self defense weapon as a handgun or shotgun.

Maybe, but there are now a shitload more out there in the hands of inexperienced owners thanks to the talk about bans.

That would really depend on the situation, wouldn't it? You're talking up close and personal. What if I don't want to let them get that close in the first place?

 

[twostrokenut]

aren't there about 300 million guns in the nation and only 5 or 6 million AR15s?



an AR15 is not as good a self defense weapon as a handgun or shotgun.

Are you saying you can't shoot straight with an accurate small caliber, high velocity weapon with a large capacity magazine and prefer a kind of point and pray style afforded you by those choices (short barreled, I assume; shotgun or handgun)?

 

[UncleBuck]

Maybe, but there are now a shitload more out there in the hands of inexperienced owners thanks to the talk about bans.

what bans? they can't even get background checks through. that's paranoia and irrationality of gun nuts in action.

That would really depend on the situation, wouldn't it? You're talking up close and personal. What if I don't want to let them get that close in the first place?

fences and alarms work wonders. if you're in public, you don't have that luxury though, it's a free country.

 

[twostrokenut]

you can google the heller decision if you wish to learn about it.

Reading it now, good dodge on the rest.

 

[UncleBuck]

Are you saying you can't shoot straight with an accurate small caliber, high velocity weapon with a large capacity magazine and prefer a kind of point and pray style afforded you by those choices (short barreled, I assume; shotgun or handgun)?

are you saying that it's easier to reach for an AR15 than a handgun?

 

[NoDrama]

aren't there about 300 million guns in the nation and only 5 or 6 million AR15s?



an AR15 is not as good a self defense weapon as a handgun or shotgun.

Maybe 150 million guns total, nowhere close to 300 million there bub.

The AR-15 is SUPERIOR to either a shotgun or a handgun in a defensive situation SUPERIOR because it can effectively fire a projectile to 800 Meters. Not all attacks by aggressors are to your throat, sometimes they may have the tools to engage from a distance. Some good a pistol with a max effective range of 50 meters or a shotgun with a max range of 100 is going to do you when the enemy lobs shit at you from a distance.

If Pistols were so god damned good, they would never give police rifles except the sharp shooters.

Ever see a SWAT team do a raid? Aren't they all carrying M4 style M-16's???? WHY would they need a rifle? Because they might get attacked and they want max firepower available to defend themselves.

People who have never fired a gun, never owned a gun, and who knows nothing about the safe use of them should not be the ones telling the rest of us false facts about guns, or how others should also be against guns with any effective firepower.

 

[NoDrama]

are you saying that it's easier to reach for an AR15 than a handgun?

Like you would know? How many handguns do you own? How many Ar's?

None of each right? So you wouldn't have any inkling of how hard or easy it is to grab one.

 

[UncleBuck]

Maybe 150 million guns total, nowhere close to 300 million there bub.

The AR-15 is SUPERIOR to either a shotgun or a handgun in a defensive situation SUPERIOR because it can effectively fire a projectile to 800 Meters. Not all attacks by aggressors are to your throat, sometimes they may have the tools to engage from a distance. Some good a pistol with a max effective range of 50 meters or a shotgun with a max range of 100 is going to do you when the enemy lobs shit at you from a distance.

If Pistols were so god damned good, they would never give police rifles except the sharp shooters.

Ever see a SWAT team do a raid? Aren't they all carrying M4 style M-16's???? WHY would they need a rifle? Because they might get attacked and they want max firepower available to defend themselves.

People who have never fired a gun, never owned a gun, and who knows nothing about the safe use of them should not be the ones telling the rest of us false facts about guns, or how others should also be against guns with any effective firepower.

how many times do you find yourself in grave danger at 800 yards in civilian life?

you are only making the case for what i am saying now. there are weapons meant for military use, and weapons meant for civilian use.

why do you think jared loughner changed out mags that still had rounds in them between each classroom so that he had a full high capacity mag for each classroom? makes it easier and more efficient to slaughter kindergarteners, gives them less time to run away when changing mags, that simple.

thanks for making my case for me though.

 

[UncleBuck]

So you wouldn't have any inkling of how hard or easy it is to grab one.

i'm not blind, ya know. i can grasp basic notions of physics, too.

 

[twostrokenut]

are you saying that it's easier to reach for an AR15 than a handgun?

Not at all. What if you have a big yard, say 10 acres or so, all pretty level and cleared; the dogs let you know somethings up at the perimeter....still reaching for a pistol or trying to tell me that should be my only option based on your opinion? What if it's a deer and I'm hungry but my stupid 38 won't hit the broad side of a barn so I sneak down and spook him before I am in range. Thanks dude you just blew dinner. jk but everyone's different ya know?